Songwriting Splits

[Blue May]

Hey,

after having a heated discussion with an artist i work with i was intrigued to find out how you producer/writers work out your song splits.

please explain how you break down the splits. ie.... i only write the music with an artist and we split our songs 60 40 etc etc... or i write melodys and chords and we split songs 50 50 etc etc...

thanks guys..

[clivek]

Well its really what you guys agree on !!

Generally a song is 2 parts, Music and lyrics.

So if I wrote the music, and a singer who im collabrating with wrote the lyrics, then a 50/50 split would be fair.

I get this sorted with a collabration agreement in writing, before i do
anything !

[BevvyB]

A lot of this depends on whether you want to split a song 60/40 which leave one of you feeling hard done by, or 50/50 with you feeling like a team

If someone is a brilliant songwriter but it's up to you to arrange, record, produce and mix the song then you are both bringing your skills to the table. Just because what you do is stupidly complicated and involves lots of gear doesn't mean you should get more than 50%. You have to ask yourself if you could ever write a song like that without the other person.

Most of the arguing I've done over song splits have been on songs that were never going anywhere in the first place.

And if you're arguing over 50/50 or 60/40 just think of this. Imagine a royalty cheque comes in for 4000 bucks and you know the other person is getting 6000. Could you live with that? It's a difference of 2000 bucks, should the song ever get anywhere in the first place.

Here's how I see it:

Songwriter comes to you and pays you for your time to record and produce their song. You do just that, and of course that involves arranging and stuff too. They walk off with the finished recorded and mixed song, you've been paid. That's that. You've been paid to do a job.

Songwriter comes to you with song, you like song, but there is no money involved. You think song could be a 'hit' or something. You offer to record song to make it succesful, so you will own the recording of the song. However, as a token of goodwill, even though you're not a songwriter at all, you propose that 20% of the publishing of the song will go to you. As you are helping the song along its path by recording it and giving it more chance of either being used by someone else or being a hit in its own right, taking 20% of the song's publishing means you are tied in with the song no matter where it may end up - so you will at least get something if it ends up making money somewhere.

Songwriter/band comes to you as above, but you really do a number on it, throw resources at it, you are brilliant at what you do and upcoming in your genre. Your recordings are the difference between this guy/guys making it or not. In this case you may be wanting to think about taking 50% of their publishing, or even started a small publishing situation yourself, as you are probably doing this for more than one band.

Songwriter comes to you with a more collaborative vibe. He could become a star, has some really good songs that need work and guidance, you will be changing structure and moving words around, even coming up with new lyrics and bits here and there, writing new chords sequences etc. As a musician you are deep in there with the songwriting, as well as the production and button pushing. This is still in 50/50 territory for me - the production process is part of the musician process, and the thing really is a collaboration. As you're working closely together it's nice to know that it's down the middle, and the vibe is better so you work better together so have more chance of success. You may feel you deserve more, but in fact it's better to keep the vibe than get too anal about it all. So 50/50 is cool.

Songwriter comes along who is the same as above but with a bigger ego. It could be more of a pain in the arse. The guy is slightly more flaky/random/crazy, but is obviously talented. However, you can see a lot more work in this one, and less appreciation. If you can't nail this one down to at least 50/50, or some other split but he actually pays for your expenses at least, then best to avoid it OR just work one track at a time to see if you can stomach it, and if it doesn't pan out, keep the recordings and tell him to sod off.

Songwriter comes along who only writes lyrics really, has a few melodic ideas but that's about it. You collaborate on songs and write them together to get them somewhere. In this case I always look at the songwriting as completely seperate from production. It's still a 50/50 split, but the whole recording process is your domain and you can decide what you want to do about that. The point here is that if songs aren't even ready to hit the computer, make the process definitely seperate in your mind and it helps. We will write these songs together, and then figure out what to do with them later with recordings.

Just rambling here, but the 50/50 split is the place where things actually happen. Other splits tend to hinder the mindset. If you record stuff you own the recording. If you produce stuff you get production points. If you manage people you tend to get 20%. You have to figure out what the legs of a song could be, and take publishing if you think you may help the song actually walk miles away from you to greener pastures.

you/them
50/50 - keeps both parties in the loop
60/40 - keeps both parties in the loop, acknowledges greater workload of production expenses incurred
70/30 - the artist had non-critical input, this was less than a collaboration, but they are selling the show so you want to keep them feeling a part of the project
80/20 - same as 70/30 but less so

Your mileage may vary on all of this. Bottom line is, is it worth arguing about in the first place, and will the arguing about 10% help or hinder the chances of the song in question. Because it usually only comes down to arguing about 10% anyway. And if you get down to arguing about 5% differences, then who is being the dick, you or them?

This is all subjective.

Here's something else to think about. You are trying to raise profile and work with better artists. You let it be known that you will always split publishing 50/50 with artists you work with. You see it as only fair that they bring their superstar talent, you should both share the songwriting monies, regardless of who wrote what. You start attracting amazing talent to your door, end up with a roster of amazing artists, and you are getting half of all of it. In those terms, being more liberal with your splits is actually helping you in your career. Artists want to work with you and feel respected. You start to be able to pick and choose the best artists. Word spreads, and you become in hot demand from great talent. Your career takes off.

It all depends what you're trying to do. You don't have to follow any rules.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by clivek

Well its really what you guys agree on !!

Generally a song is 2 parts, Music and lyrics.

So if I wrote the music, and a singer who im collabrating with wrote the lyrics, then a 50/50 split would be fair.

I get this sorted with a collabration agreement in writing, before i do
anything !

Its worth pointing out that although this is a reasonable way to look at it it has no legal basis. If two people work on a song and someone decides to use the instrumental only , both parties will still get paid. Same is if someone publishes the lyrics in a book (pretty rare these days) the musician will still get paid. The 50/50 split is across the board even though the decision basis may have been lyric/music split. In law, all paries are paid for all uses based on the split.

[Jamz]

Agreed...whatever the splits are make sure they're clearly agreed upon up front.
I've watched musicians attack other musicians when the band has "splits" meetings post recording.