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k.g.
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#1
22nd November 2007
Old 22nd November 2007
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how to get a good publishing deal?

Hi i was wondering if anyone knows how to get a descent publishing deal?
I have a tun of songs written... and i was wondering how do i go about getting a publishing deal? or finding a good publisher that will place these tracks on other peoples albums...

if anyone knows anything or has any information please let me know

thanks
k.g.
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22nd November 2007
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ho do i get a good publishing deal?

Hi i was wondering if anyone knows how to get a descent publishing deal?
I have a tun of songs written... and i was wondering how do i go about getting a publishing deal? or finding a good publisher that will place these tracks on other peoples albums...

if anyone knows anything or has any information please let me know

thanks
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22nd November 2007
Old 22nd November 2007
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1. GET A LAWYER. Can't stress this enough. Get a lawyer before you eat your next bowl of cereal.

Next, shop your songs. Play open mic nights. Join songwriter's associations like NSAI. Send info kits to companies. You have to push to get pulled
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22nd November 2007
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I hate to be a jerk, but if you have to ask, you arent ready.
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22nd November 2007
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Think of it like getting a grant from venture capitalists. You already have to be well established before someone with money takes a risk on you. And most of the time they are expecting a 30% return after a few years on their money. Unless you have documented success already, not many people will take that kind of risk.
So my advice is to plug your own songs, to not just publishers but artists, producers, and whoever else needs songs. If one song breaks, you can pretty much start looking at publishers.
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22nd November 2007
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thanks hitmaker....

my question may sound as though i'm not educated and i don't know much... but that's only what it looks like.... i probably know what to expect from every single response.... however... i never UNDERESTIMATE the power of knowledge... there may be someone on here that knows something that i don't therefore i asked a simple question to see what the response will be

thanks again hitmaker
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22nd November 2007
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Get the Passman book and learn everything you can about publishing.
Oh, and get a lawyer... a good one.
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22nd November 2007
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Grind. Get out to networking events (especially ones focused towards songwriters), get those songs referenced, get them copyrighted, place them in the right hands. Repeat the process

Look into what programs ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC has for songwriters. They offer a few songwriter forums, clinics, etc...

Hope that helps!
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#9
22nd November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.g. View Post
thanks hitmaker....

my question may sound as though i'm not educated and i don't know much... but that's only what it looks like.... i probably know what to expect from every single response.... however... i never UNDERESTIMATE the power of knowledge... there may be someone on here that knows something that i don't therefore i asked a simple question to see what the response will be

thanks again hitmaker
See the problem lies in the question itself.

Quote:
how to get a good publishing deal?
The answer is, WRITE GREAT SONGS AND NETWORK! It's not rocket science. There's no secret to it. You could search for established songwriters and producers on MySpace and see if they'd like to co-write, or if they'd be willing to help you. I know of at least 15-20 multi-platinum writers that run their own MySpace pages and will check out your stuff if you send it to them. All you have to do is get off your butt. Or find up and coming talent and co-write with them BEFORE they get signed or make it big. The possibilities are endless. There's no set way to "make it".

It's like a band asking "how do we get signed? we're ready for a deal!"
No you're not ready, otherwise a&rs, managers and attorneys would be after you... and you wouldnt even have to ask that question.

Dont worry about how you can get a good publishing deal. Worry about how you can become the best songwriter out there. If your material is up there with the best, you will eventually get a deal. But focusing on getting a deal, is the worst thing you can do. First the music, then business. If the music is great, the business part should be easy. If you contact 20 hit writers and no one wants to work with you, you're probably not that good and need to go back to the drawing board.
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22nd November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmaker View Post
Dont worry about how you can get a good publishing deal. Worry about how you can become the best songwriter out there. If your material is up there with the best, you will eventually get a deal. But focusing on getting a deal, is the worst thing you can do. First the music, then business. If the music is great, the business part should be easy. If you contact 20 hit writers and no one wants to work with you, you're probably not that good and need to go back to the drawing board.

That explains why there's such quality content on MTV and "radio"

How about "knowing somebody" or "I'll scratch your arse you scratch mine"
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22nd November 2007
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What Jb4play said.
Grind on your own as long as you can.
Seek for a management deal ,you don't need really a publishing deal these days.
I got offered 2 ,they was straight bs.
The Major Publishing Companys like EMI Publishing or UMP won`t offer you a deal anyway...they might take Timbo or JR Rotem. Established Artists.
Indie Publishing Companys can't help you a lot as far as placements go...

Find yourself a good manager ,perfect is one with a second job as A&R at a major label. lol
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22nd November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordnielson View Post
That explains why there's such quality content on MTV and "radio"

How about "knowing somebody" or "I'll scratch your arse you scratch mine"
How about, "you're not in that position, and therefore need to make it work because of quality?"

I'm one of those MTV and radio dudes. You saying that it's of lower quality than some art rock or underground band, is ridiculious. Writing catchy pop songs is just as much of an art as writing experimental music that only the hipsters get.
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22nd November 2007
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thanks it's always good to know what others think... i've done a tun of research.... and have songs placed on up and coming artists... so i guess i'll just have to see what happens... i've had a few small publishers interested... but the percentage that they wanted off my stuff was crazy.... so i just figured i'd wait it out....

if anyone else has anything else they'd like to share please feel free to share it with me...
k.g.
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22nd November 2007
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thanks it's always good to know what others think... i've done a tun of research.... and have songs placed on up and coming artists... so i guess i'll just have to see what happens... i've had a few small publishers interested... but the percentage that they wanted off my stuff was crazy.... so i just figured i'd wait it out....

if anyone else has anything else they'd like to share please feel free...
#15
22nd November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmaker View Post
How about, "you're not in that position, and therefore need to make it work because of quality?"

I'm one of those MTV and radio dudes. You saying that it's of lower quality than some art rock or underground band, is ridiculious. Writing catchy pop songs is just as much of an art as writing experimental music that only the hipsters get.

Oh I do think there is some watered down made-for-profit-only shit out there. There always has been. But I didn't actually say that one style of music is better than the other.
If you take a look again I said that it isn't always the most talented one with the best songs who gets the gigs. If you are adequately talented but have good contacts you are far more likely to get a shot than someone without a past.

If I can get my best mate (who is somewhat gifted) to fix my car, I'll do it instead of having to sifter through endless shitty subjects to find the nugget.

When you have the good stuff you also need the right person and place to deliver to. If you live in London and you want to write country music you probably have to consider some creative options.
If you are in an early twenties indie outfit you go play some dodgy showcases in Camden, and try to get some industry or connections to show up.

So to the original poster:

If you feel that your material is adequate, and represents the best you can do at this time in your life then by all means shop it with a vengeance (get to know people). If you sit around waiting to be a discovered genious this life has a whole themepark of disappointments available.
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22nd November 2007
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The answer is simple: sleep with the right person, and do a good job.

All sarcasm aside, I believe it's equal part songwriting and networking. The songwriting doesn't have to be good in terms of writing what *I* would call a good song, it has to be marketable. Write songs that 12 year olds will get into.
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22nd November 2007
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A country-western London tune... hmmmm...

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Big Ben was chiming out the time.....

Saw the fish and chips where you threw them on the floor
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k.g.
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22nd November 2007
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When you have the good stuff you also need the right person and place to deliver to.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT ASPECT OF WHAT YOUR SAYING THERE'S ALLOT OF PPL THAT WILL SELL U A DREAM... AND ALSO ALLOT OF RIP OFF ARTISTS... THAT ARE FULL OF BS.. THE RIGHT PERSON WILL LOOK OUT FOR U... AND MAKE SURE THAT YOUR STUFF GETS HEARD
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22nd November 2007
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I am knee deep in Taxi and in a few weeks I will put down my thoughts on the experience.
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22nd November 2007
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My 1st. publishing deal came as a result of passing along a cassette tape of an albums worth of country songs I had written, and produced. The Lady I gave it to had a boyfriend who was doing coffee houses, and was looking for original material. The relationship that eventually developed led to opening for Tanya Tucker, Ricky Skaggs, Freddy Fender, Ty Herndon, The Texas Tornadoes and numerous others. You never know where or when you can shop your material. Good material sells itself. It always helps to have a lawyer or develop a relationship with people who have valuable imformation, or will give honest feedback. Post your songs and ask for opinions. As mentioned, there are many ways to shop your songs. Good Luck!
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22nd November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.g. View Post
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT ASPECT OF WHAT YOUR SAYING THERE'S ALLOT OF PPL THAT WILL SELL U A DREAM... AND ALSO ALLOT OF RIP OFF ARTISTS... THAT ARE FULL OF BS.. THE RIGHT PERSON WILL LOOK OUT FOR U... AND MAKE SURE THAT YOUR STUFF GETS HEARD

And how easy it is to get swayed when someone is praising your art and wants to take you onboard.
Make the wrong choice in that department, and you can rip a good few useful years out of your calender.

So just because someone helped sign or produce a big act doesn't mean that they walk on water. The could have gotten lucky or been a minor pawn in the big picture. Don't foolishly trust anybody or take someones words or opinions for gospel. If something sounds "out" or challenges your common sense, stay alert, consider your alternatives and maybe seek out "second opinions".
#22
22nd November 2007
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Its VERY difficult these days. There are VERY few companies who MIGHT offer you money based solely on your music, but for the most part the only way to get a pub deal is to approach a publisher with a song that is to be released on an established artist's album. And even then they might only offer a deal for the one song. Most people i know with pub deals got them back when the industry was booming during the nsync/britney days. Companies are shrinking rather then signing new people, although there is a little shimmer of hope lately, as the labels get the internet thing under control, and discover the alternate routes of making money from music. The problem is the kind of artists that take outside songs are very often the same artists known NOT to sell actual units.
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22nd November 2007
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Gotta have placements 1ST...& good placements.....
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22nd November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEYBEEETSSS View Post
Gotta have placements 1ST...& good placements.....
Good placements are major placements in this case.
With a hella lot airplay and 6 figure promo bugets.
#25
22nd November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
The problem is the kind of artists that take outside songs are very often the same artists known NOT to sell actual units.
What do you mean by this? Most major lable pop/r&b singers take outside songs. Beyonce, Fantasia, Usher, Chris Brown..... they all use song writers. If by outside you mean new to the "game" I disagree with that also. If you're a new song writer now and your stuff is hot then you have a great chance in todays climate. Labels much rather give you five to ten grand then a top song writer forty to fifty grand. Its the same for producers.

As far as publshing deals go, you need some major placements. I personally know an established R&B singer with a #1 hit under his belt who only got a five hundered thousand dollar deal. So that means you (with no hits or placements) are worth nothing to the publishing co. Don't get a manager because that will only cost you cash you don't have. Only get managers and lawyers when your income justifies it. All you need to do is grind. If you don't live where the action is you might need to move there. If you don't move there you have to find a way to get your songs in the hands of people who make decisions.

Song writing demos are just like any other demo. Write a great song to a great track and send it to the proper people. Let it be known who you are and what you are trying to do and keep grinding. This is how one makes it. If you do this and get major placements, your pub deal will be way better than the b/s they would offer you now. In this industry everything comes when and only when you have put in the proper foot work. Nothing is given its all about your grind and perserverence.
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22nd November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EKG Productions View Post
What do you mean by this? Most major lable pop/r&b singers take outside songs. Beyonce, Fantasia, Usher, Chris Brown..... they all use song writers. If by outside you mean new to the "game" I disagree with that also. If you're a new song writer now and your stuff is hot then you have a great chance in todays climate. Labels much rather give you five to ten grand then a top song writer forty to fifty grand. Its the same for producers.

As far as publshing deals go, you need some major placements. I personally know an established R&B singer with a #1 hit under his belt who only got a five hundered thousand dollar deal. So that means you (with no hits or placements) are worth nothing to the publishing co. Don't get a manager because that will only cost you cash you don't have. Only get managers and lawyers when your income justifies it. All you need to do is grind. If you don't live where the action is you might need to move there. If you don't move there you have to find a way to get your songs in the hands of people who make decisions.

Song writing demos are just like any other demo. Write a great song to a great track and send it to the proper people. Let it be known who you are and what you are trying to do and keep grinding. This is how one makes it. If you do this and get major placements, your pub deal will be way better than the b/s they would offer you now. In this industry everything comes when and only when you have put in the proper foot work. Nothing is given its all about your grind and perserverence.

Dude you must be crazy.
Yes most major label artists take outside songs, but most label artists DONT SELL ALBUMS!
First off, did Fantasia sell UNITS??? Is Usher's new one gonna sell UNITS?? Yes I think Beyonce sold and Chris Brown'll sell, but you just named THE TOP megastars of our time. Theyre practically a brand-name themselves. There was a time when there was 12 blond haired, pop singing, little teenybopper girls all signed to majors all moving UNITS. And SCORES of Boybands all selling ALBUMS. Those days are over. Theres only so many projects like that out there, and once you cancel out the garunteed Sean Garret, Timbaland, Pharell, JR Rotem, and Tricky Stewert trax, how many trax are ACTUALLY left on these albums for no-name writers and producers??? MAYBE two?? I just had a meeting with a VERY big AnR who said although he loves my stuff, the only artists on his label that could cut them are all getting dropped. why? cuz they DONT SELL ALBUMS. And as far as a 500, 000 dollar pub deal. Thats pretty damn good. I dont know who your talking about, but i know plenty of people that wrote #1 hits, and they DONT have 500, 000 dollar deals. And a mananger is a GOOD idea, they dont take cash, they take a % of what THEY get you.
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22nd November 2007
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Get an attorney.
Write good music.
Schmooz at publishing events.
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22nd November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
Dude you must be crazy.
Yes most major label artists take outside songs, but most label artists DONT SELL ALBUMS!
First off, did Fantasia sell UNITS??? Is Usher's new one gonna sell UNITS?? Yes I think Beyonce sold and Chris Brown'll sell, but you just named THE TOP megastars of our time. Theyre practically a brand-name themselves. There was a time when there was 12 blond haired, pop singing, little teenybopper girls all signed to majors all moving UNITS. And SCORES of Boybands all selling ALBUMS. Those days are over. Theres only so many projects like that out there, and once you cancel out the garunteed Sean Garret, Timbaland, Pharell, JR Rotem, and Tricky Stewert trax, how many trax are ACTUALLY left on these albums for no-name writers and producers??? MAYBE two?? I just had a meeting with a VERY big AnR who said although he loves my stuff, the only artists on his label that could cut them are all getting dropped. why? cuz they DONT SELL ALBUMS. And as far as a 500, 000 dollar pub deal. Thats pretty damn good. I dont know who your talking about, but i know plenty of people that wrote #1 hits, and they DONT have 500, 000 dollar deals. And a mananger is a GOOD idea, they dont take cash, they take a % of what THEY get you.

I can second this.

Well I think you can only make real money these days as a upcoming producer by founding a production company...
Get a promotion deal and build up your artists.
#29
22nd November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mix-it-well View Post
I can second this.

Well I think you can only make real money these days as a upcoming producer by founding a production company...
Get a promotion deal and build up your artists.
What does producing and album, and album sales have to do with publishing? There's sooo many more ways to make money off your publishing deal. Radio play, tv shows, ringtones, movies, other people covering them, etc...

To think that the only way to make money on publishing is from album sales is just shortsighted.

And there are so many more ways to make money as a producer... like working with artists, and getting paid? Unless someone has serious prior sales, I won't take spec deals and need cash up front. Even then, I need cash up front plus points. Forget starting a production company. It's all just a shell game.

Then again, not once have I considered, "Making beatz" to be producing. What George Martin does is producing, and has absolutely nothing to do with "beatz" yet I have a feeling if he wanted to produce the best hip-hop album in the world... well he's got the ears for it. "making beatz" isn't producing, its programming or drumming.
#30
22nd November 2007
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My post was not about publishing.
Just about getting money as a producer.
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