Is anyone else sick and tired of...

[triez]

Digital trickery, both visual and audio? Everywhere I look I see images that are photoshop manipulated. I look on the side of a bus and there is an add for scotch where the liquid flows in a curve. People with square eyes. Morphing cars that turn into robots and dance on television adverts, joggers jumping over urban chasms and so on ad nauseum.

Te first 1000 or so times I thought wow, how clever and innovative, but it wore off 5 or so years ago, now it is so ho hum to see and hear people thinking that they are soooo clever because they can use Photoshop or some lame sound morphing plug in. If I see another dumb digital add I am going to puke. Advertising people take note.

In Audioland, loops aren't much better. When is tedious loop based music going to die? Yes, I know they are a great crutch for people without the skill to do anything else, but that doesn't make it any easier to listen to.

This kind of stuff is without a doubt very clever, but cleverness and creativity are two very different things that seem to be confused by lots of people at the moment. Stitching a bunch of loops of other people's work in a computer is (or can be) clever, it is not in any significant way creative.

Rant off.

[barbital]

I'll second that. It's everywhere I go. Next thing we know there will be advertising on trains just like there is on buses and taxis. I live in Australia too. The problem seems to be worldwide.

I still think Australia stands out from the rest in terms of quality of life. Having several friends who've travelled the world, and they are all glad to come back home.

I only have one complaint - that I can't keep certain animals as pets. Might change one day, but I'm not that worried. I'm still happy with everything and that's probably the only thing I'd change...oh, and dental care for pensioners is terrible. One of my close relatives has to resort to spending huge chunks of her savings on the dentist and she's only a pensioner. That is a lot worse than my small problem and the issue has to be dealt with, the sooner the better.

Ben

[Harley-OIART]

Originally Posted by barbital

I only have one complaint - that I can't keep certain animals as pets.

Like what for example?

[Bryan Talbot]

Originally Posted by triez

Advertising people take note.

Here in the southeastern U.S., my perception has always been that advertisers are generally the last to arrive at the party, and the last to leave. I wouldn't look for change from that world any time soon.

Originally Posted by triez

In Audioland, loops aren't much better. When is tedious loop based music going to die? Yes, I know they are a great crutch for people without the skill to do anything else, but that doesn't make it any easier to listen to.

This kind of stuff is without a doubt very clever, but cleverness and creativity are two very different things that seem to be confused by lots of people at the moment. Stitching a bunch of loops of other people's work in a computer is (or can be) clever, it is not in any significant way creative.

I completely agree with this. Around ten years ago, when "electronica" (the format that almost was) became ubiquitous, I figured a few years at best, then a migration back toward more manual execution, with a liberal dose of technology. I suppose that has happened to some extent, but like you, I'm pretty baffled by the continuing dominance of a loop-based mindset. Maybe it is because it's so damn easy - instant motion, whether it actually goes in a specific direction or not. like an actual song.

And I have NEVER understood the perception of accomplishment that is associated with the manipulation of pre-existing recordings. Sure, there can be some interesting results, but come on people - there's nothing actually creative going on here, I don't care what anybody says.

Anybody in the world can throw existing elements together and call it a stew, but not many can actually create something original and memorable from their mind's influences.

And that, plus a dollar, will buy you an average cup of coffee.

[joelpatterson]

I dunno, I think it's clever sometimes.

Like... if someone were to take the Beatles' song "Yesterday," and then overlap that with the Franklin Roosevelt speech that starts out "Yesterday, December 7th..."

But, that's just me.

[triez]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I dunno, I think it's clever sometimes.

Like... if someone were to take the Beatles' song "Yesterday," and then overlap that with the Franklin Roosevelt speech that starts out "Yesterday, December 7th..."

But, that's just me.

I do agree, it is clever, but I would like to see more creativity in music and photography. I think the big problem is the flood of computer programs that allow people with no skill to put together a piece of "music" that has a lot of movement and stuff going on that is automatically generated. It sounds complex and derivative, but is childishly easy to do, because the software is doing it for you.

This is cool for Joe meatball and his kids to play with at home, but the problem seems to be that Joe then seems to think that he is some sort of artistic prodigy and that everyone else should hear his brittle loop based psuedo dance Garageband blancmange, it must be a hit because it reminds him of all the other stuff he has been hearing lately. Suddenly the background noise goes up in the industry because everyone with a crack of Reason tries to publish their crap, not realizing that the plumber next door's kid is doing the same thing.

I was in a music store recently hearing two people who had happened to meet in the shop, and the first question was: "Where do you get your beatz and loopz"? Pathetic.

[GearBit]

Originally Posted by triez

I do agree, it is clever, but I would like to see more creativity in music and photography. I think the big problem is the flood of computer programs that allow people with no skill to put together a piece of "music" that has a lot of movement and stuff going on that is automatically generated. It sounds complex and derivative, but is childishly easy to do, because the software is doing it for you.

This is cool for Joe meatball and his kids to play with at home, but the problem seems to be that Joe then seems to think that he is some sort of artistic prodigy and that everyone else should hear his brittle loop based psuedo dance Garageband blancmange, it must be a hit because it reminds him of all the other stuff he has been hearing lately. Suddenly the background noise goes up in the industry because everyone with a crack of Reason tries to publish their crap, not realizing that the plumber next door's kid is doing the same thing.

I was in a music store recently hearing two people who had happened to meet in the shop, and the first question was: "Where do you get your beatz and loopz"? Pathetic.

After many years of beating my head against a wall trying to get people to be as clever as me I decided to give this thing called "simplicity" a try. It was pretty liberating to open my ears to "plain folk" music. Try writing something simple that resonates with just plain folk. I think you will find it as much if not more of a challenge than say, Tool.
Perfect example: daat da da (or "snak a ta" as the advert goes) is prolly the dumbest thing ever written but its fun! Fun is good! Fun is not "complicated"...... unless you're the downer dude telling everyone bopping their head that it sucks because it's simple.
I used to be that guy. Now I just bop along with everyone else and listen to Stravinsky when I get home.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by triez

Te first 1000 or so times I thought wow, how clever and innovative, but it wore off 5 or so years ago, now it is so ho hum to see and hear people thinking that they are soooo clever because they can use Photoshop or some lame sound morphing plug in. If I see another dumb digital add I am going to puke. Advertising people take note.

The cost of airtime is HUGE. The cost of producing an ad is miniscule - about the same as the cost in airtime of showing it nationally ONCE. If these visual tricks did not work- i.e. if they did not sell cars or soda or toothpaste, the advertisers would be doing something else- pronto.

Your one consolation is that in 10 or 20 years they will be a joke. Like big afros and bell bottoms, or gated reverb snares.

In Audioland, loops aren't much better. When is tedious loop based music going to die?

again, when people stop buying it.

[joelpatterson]

Right, right, right--real "creativity" is very different from cutting and pasting.

[GearBit]

[QUOTE
Your one consolation is that in 10 or 20 years they will be a joke. Like big afros and bell bottoms, or gated reverb snares.
.[/quote]

Or as something retro and cool.....like big afros and bell bottoms are now. Still waiting for the gated reverb snares.....History has cautioned me to never say never

[KingDaddyO]

Yeah, it's cool n' all, but stick a fork in it eh?

Problem I think, is that in one fell swoop, it lowers the bar tremendously, since the masses will usually embrace the current technological gee-whiz whatever as the new standards bearer. And that doesn't usually leave much room for 'old school' considerations... like a story line, or an original melody, or a non-cliche. But people will go wherever you lead them, so long as the destination is a cool, rewarding, or an entertaining experience. So I guess the 'crime', is that the most talented or qualified amongst us, don't always get to be the pied piper.

Yeah... it sucks donkey ass, seeing nothing but impossible stunts and visages, in lieu of a decent story or a timeless melody.

[heathen]

I agree to a certain extent, I can pretty much enjoy any music as long as it is good, which is usually in the ear of the beholder.
I am a rocker and was a guitarist untill an unfortunate brain operation left me unable to play, so yeah I had to write something, so I dabbled in electronica to the point I was just as bored listening to the same repetitive loops as I was listening to the same boring 3 power chords played every which way possible by annoying guitarists. Shit fu$# I was a guitarist ummm yeah well once I stopped playing and started listening yeah it was pretty boring, most of it. Also listening to a shitty drummer is worse than listening to a shitty loop any day.
There are a few shining lights like,. Steve Vai, Eric Johnson, Stevie Ray, Jimi, Angus, Satriani, Randy Rhodes and a bunch of others but the rest is mostly the same ie: most young punk bands. I got sick of the melancholic droning and clich'e lyrics which was the end of the 90's as most people did and looked for something a little more upbeat.
I still love all the old stuff but in smaller doses as it's been done to death, there was a big gap between the good old stuff and the sound of most of the 90's. To me hiphop at the moment is one of the more interesting styles of music people are getting into, it is so varied that there is pretty much something for everyone in it.
Also not everyone uses other peoples loops some people actually do spend hours painstakingly making everthing spot on.
Again it's all up to the creator of the music and the end listeners enjoyment.

Shit thats right digital trickery, yeah I hate that shit too. But I hated working on 4 track tape more. Also speaking of digital trickery, since I've been recording rappers for a while now I remember the last time I needed autotune was on the last rock song I mixed. I better dig it out again as I'm recording a rock band early next year, thing is I know they will need it no matter how much they practice.

[heathen]

Originally Posted by KingDaddyO

Yeah, it's cool n' all, but stick a fork in it eh?


Yeah... it sucks donkey ass, seeing nothing but impossible stunts and visages, in lieu of a decent story or a timeless melody.

So true.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by GearBit

[QUOTE
Your one consolation is that in 10 or 20 years they will be a joke. Like big afros and bell bottoms, or gated reverb snares.
.

Or as something retro and cool.....like big afros and bell bottoms are now. Still waiting for the gated reverb snares.....History has cautioned me to never say never[/quote]

OK then, mohawks and skinny ties! You are right, there is always a peak and a trough, a certain lag when old stuff is dated and then a longer lag when it is cool again.

[7 Hz]

Is anyone else sick and tired of fonts? Everywhere I go I see fonts that are produced on typewriters and computer programs. I look on the side of a bus and there is some fonts in an advert. Fonts with serifs. Morphing fonts that turn into other fonts and dance on television adverts and so on ad nauseum.

The first 1000 or so times I thought wow, how clever and innovative, but it wore off 5 or so years ago, now it is so ho hum to see and hear people thinking that they are soooo clever because they can use typewriters or some lame computer program. If I see anotherl add with fonts in it, I am going to puke. Advertising people take note.

This kind of stuff is without a doubt very clever, but cleverness and creativity are two very different things that seem to be confused by lots of people at the moment. Stitching a bunch of fonts in a computer is (or can be) clever, it is not in any significant way creative.

Irony off.

[heathen]

Yeah I wanna start seeing mohawks again, yes!

[heathen]

One of the worst sounding live mixes I've ever heard was done by a guy with a big mohawk, he had every fader pushed up full and was standing there with his finger up his nose for the whole set, glad I was'nt mixing after him.

[Tantrum The Cat]

Originally Posted by triez

Digital trickery, both visual and audio? Everywhere I look I see images that are photoshop manipulated. I look on the side of a bus and there is an add for scotch where the liquid flows in a curve. People with square eyes. Morphing cars that turn into robots and dance on television adverts, joggers jumping over urban chasms and so on ad nauseum.

I think it's interesting that you used the word "trickery". Is it really trickery if you can easily detect it, either visually or aurally? Does anyone really believe that those cars are actually dancing robots, or that Paris Hilton sounds anything like her CD in real life?

Originally Posted by triez

In Audioland, loops aren't much better. When is tedious loop based music going to die? Yes, I know they are a great crutch for people without the skill to do anything else, but that doesn't make it any easier to listen to.

This kind of stuff is without a doubt very clever, but cleverness and creativity are two very different things that seem to be confused by lots of people at the moment. Stitching a bunch of loops of other people's work in a computer is (or can be) clever, it is not in any significant way creative.

Meh. Casio home organ then = Garageband now. There will always be a "home game" version of things for people to muck about with. Some of those people will be content with making a prefab track, and others will go on to make their own original compositions. The good news is that you will never hear 99.9% of what these people create.

[E Orjatsalo]

Originally Posted by triez

In Audioland, loops aren't much better. When is tedious loop based music going to die? Yes, I know they are a great crutch for people without the skill to do anything else, but that doesn't make it any easier to listen to.

This kind of stuff is without a doubt very clever, but cleverness and creativity are two very different things that seem to be confused by lots of people at the moment. Stitching a bunch of loops of other people's work in a computer is (or can be) clever, it is not in any significant way creative.

Be glad that you doesn't live in Scandinavia. A Swedish guy made a song called Boten Anna with Fruity Loops (or something like that) and now that song is played throughout whole Scandinavia... That song is about irc-bot, which name is Anna. How low can you go...

Only the idiots in Finland are stupid enough to buy an album of that kind of crap made by Swedes. And we are supposed to hate Swedes (mainly because of Olympic Hockey, at least this year), not buy something a drunken swede made in few hours. Maybe it is those 290000 people whose mother tongue is swedish in Finland, that are buying all those albums, and therefore forcing radiostations to play that song becouse it has sold so well...

Conspiracy!