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RIAA's CEO's pay is 1/16th of it's revenue
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(un)reason
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12th June 2014
Old 12th June 2014
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RIAA's CEO's pay is 1/16th of it's revenue

https://torrentfreak.com/riaa-revenu...rd-low-140610/

$1.5 million pay from a total budget of $24.2 million? Yeesh, that's just ridiculous. Whatever you may think of the RIAA's tactics and the merits or lack thereof of piracy, you can't deny that they've been singularly ineffective in their goals in recent years, and it amazes me that the people at the top can continue to have job security and draw massive salaries like that, let alone be awarded bonuses despite their failure.

At least with the banks, you know it's their job description to make as much money by any means possible, so you can't really be surprised when they screw you over and still get massive bonuses. We've also been seeing it in the extensive threads about Avid's financial troubles. While the programmers deal with huge cuts, there's still people at the top drawing huge salaries for ill-defined managerial jobs that make you wonder what they actually do for the company.

But then, it does seem that the same few people turn up in positions of power again and again, and even if they get dropped from one job, there's another high-paid cushy one waiting for them. I wish I knew how they managed it, because it certainly doesn't seem to be hard work.
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12th June 2014
Old 12th June 2014
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The RIAA doesn't need to spend money on much. They're a trade group, lobbyists. They don't sell anything. Their costs are in real estate, computers, and people. They're a 501 c6, not a c3. They're not-for-profit, not non-profit. There is a difference. By the way, compare that to the Red Cross or UNICEF.

You know that labels are a form of investment banking, right?
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12th June 2014
Old 12th June 2014
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That's how it always is for robber barons. The fiefs run away and they're left with the castle and some torture racks.
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12th June 2014
Old 12th June 2014
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That's $1M in salary plus $500k bonus for him with only 58 employees in the organization too. When you do a bit more digging you see that thee other employees each make around $500k. When you divide up the rest that goes to salaries the Janitor must be making six figures.

Trouble is too many US companies have outlandish exec pay. Just look at the Avid execs pay and how that company has been doing.
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13th June 2014
Old 13th June 2014
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You realize that they're all lawyers, right?

Do you know what lawyers charge by the hour?

The janitor is probably outsourced to a local vendor for the lowest bid.
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13th June 2014
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It's a joke about the Janitor (it's the internet and I forget I need to put LOL after every rye comment - Janitorial and Matainence staff would be contracted and not part of that total salary figure or included in the 58 employee head count). Their are many lawyers now who are salaried and not paid that much (very much a middle class wage) as a result of the schools pumping out far more lawyers than the demand for them. I'm sure there are plenty of clerical amoung the 58 employee headcount too. Their actual legal needs have been and are farmed out thus not part of the salaries (any hourly lawyer fees are separate as the cases in their name were conducted by outside firms). As for a lobbist needing to be a lawyer, though many are, being a good salesman (or bag man) are the most important qualities.
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13th June 2014
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Wait - we're taking a link from TORRENTFREAK DOT COM(pletley stealing and giving away other people's creative content) as the unabashed truth?

Seriously. SERIOUSLY?

A "come steal some content" website is pi$$ing and moaning about the CEO of RIAA?

How about Torrentfreak disclose all of the money that they make through advertising all while pirating all of their content (so essentially, no overhead except a domain name and a host)....
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14th June 2014
Old 14th June 2014
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Gotta love the tone of music industry apologists. 1.5 Million a year is not the sort of pay that helps you empathise with your 20,000 per annum peons.

The problem with lobbying is that if they ever had a complete victory they would lose their job. It's inevitable that they would never win because it makes no sense to do, they simply have to maintain a scenario where everyone is convinced things would get worse without them.
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14th June 2014
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Originally Posted by Jazz Noise View Post
Gotta love the tone of music industry apologists. 1.5 Million a year is not the sort of pay that helps you empathise with your 20,000 per annum peons.

The problem with lobbying is that if they ever had a complete victory they would lose their job. It's inevitable that they would never win because it makes no sense to do, they simply have to maintain a scenario where everyone is convinced things would get worse without them.
Spoken like someone with no horse in the race....
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14th June 2014
Old 14th June 2014
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Originally Posted by ivmike View Post
Wait - we're taking a link from TORRENTFREAK DOT COM(pletley stealing and giving away other people's creative content) as the unabashed truth?

Seriously. SERIOUSLY?

A "come steal some content" website is pi$$ing and moaning about the CEO of RIAA?

How about Torrentfreak disclose all of the money that they make through advertising all while pirating all of their content (so essentially, no overhead except a domain name and a host)....
Torrentfreak is a news site bro... There is nothing pirated there.
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14th June 2014
Old 14th June 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (un)reason View Post
https://torrentfreak.com/riaa-revenu...rd-low-140610/

$1.5 million pay from a total budget of $24.2 million? Yeesh, that's just ridiculous. Whatever you may think of the RIAA's tactics and the merits or lack thereof of piracy, you can't deny that they've been singularly ineffective in their goals in recent years, and it amazes me that the people at the top can continue to have job security and draw massive salaries like that, let alone be awarded bonuses despite their failure.

At least with the banks, you know it's their job description to make as much money by any means possible, so you can't really be surprised when they screw you over and still get massive bonuses. We've also been seeing it in the extensive threads about Avid's financial troubles. While the programmers deal with huge cuts, there's still people at the top drawing huge salaries for ill-defined managerial jobs that make you wonder what they actually do for the company.

But then, it does seem that the same few people turn up in positions of power again and again, and even if they get dropped from one job, there's another high-paid cushy one waiting for them. I wish I knew how they managed it, because it certainly doesn't seem to be hard work.
You're taking ANYTHING the piracy advocates at Torrentfreak say as true?

To start with, the RIAA isn't an "anti-piracy group". They were founded long before piracy became a problem and have the major tasks of setting standards and advocacy for the industry. Ever heard of the RIAA eq curve that standardized playback for vinyl records? Before the RIAA set the standard every major company had a different equalization curve and records made by one company sounded like crap on another's player. Phonograph companies had to include a big rotary switch with half a dozen different settings and consumers had to know which setting to use on what record. RIAA standardization fixed all that. The RIAA also represented the recording industry in disputes with the broadcasting industry and similar legal battles. Trying to coordinate the anti-piracy effort is only part of what they do.

Most of what the RIAA does you never even hear about.

Why anybody on a forum ostensibly dedicated to music production would believe the propaganda spread by an organization like Torrentfreak is beyond me. Don't you understand that those people are our enemy? That they are the reason there is no money in our work anymore?
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#12
15th June 2014
Old 15th June 2014
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Originally Posted by ivmike View Post
Spoken like someone with no horse in the race....
Exactly.
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15th June 2014
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Anti-piracy here.

But, for the record, the TorrentFreak blog has been used as a source by a number of mainstream journalistic institutions, including the NY Times, Guardian, CNN, and Wall Street Journal. TorrentFreak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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15th June 2014
Old 15th June 2014
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Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Anti-piracy here.

But, for the record, the TorrentFreak blog has been used as a source by a number of mainstream journalistic institutions, including the NY Times, Guardian, CNN, and Wall Street Journal. TorrentFreak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All of which have, at various times, printed highly inaccurate and propaganda filled articles. Journalism ain't what it used to be.

I wonder what percentage of Torrentfreak's income goes to its CEO's salary? Or whatever the equivalent position is - I bet it's at least as much.
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15th June 2014
Old 15th June 2014
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I'm not sure there's that much money in blogs, John. We're not talking HuffPost, here. We're talking about two or three guys running a Wordpress blog, looks to me.

And with regard to content, here's the lead story on TorrentFreak as I write this: VUZE TORRENT CLIENT CONDEMNS PIRACY, SAYS IT’S STEALING

Now, I don't know what the blog's policy policy positions are, nor am I certain that they're even pertinent.

What is at issue here are the facts presented and whether they're accurate.

If you have contrary facts at your disposal, then that's one thing, we can get to the bottom of it and sort out what's correct.

But if you're telling us we should be shamed for drawing news from a source that has been used by mainstream, responsible journals simply because you don't agree with what you believe the editorial position of that source to be, I think you're a little off base there.
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15th June 2014
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You criticise because economic class warfare is and has been going on. The pendulum has swung way too far one way and thus needs correction or as history has repeatedly shown us there will be an even larger and longer world wide depression (yep, lessons history teaches us are a bitch). These parasitic high salary's are siphoned off the backs of hard working barely middle class content creators so that's a pretty good reason to be concerned if you need one.

I'm sure the salary disclosure came in the form of regulatory paperwork filings and thus is public knowledge. While that site has an agenda to look up that public knowledge and diseminate it, it's still just public knowledge so don't shoot the messenger, look at what the message is telling you.
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15th June 2014
Old 15th June 2014
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So really, I'm on both sides of the fence regarding the concept of torrents.

1. The technology to spread information via peer-to-peer file sharing is super-cool and when used legally, has the potential to impact change in a way that is subversive to an oppressive government. Think Wikileaks. You can make information available to anyone and ensure it's available in such a way that a single IP address, or server location can be compromised and the information remains available and unaltered.

2. A group of selfish assholes took this technology to steal property because they believe that it's a victimless crime.

The RIAA's approach originally was to fight the technology that created this black market. The problem was that it was a game of whack-a-mole and eventually the torrent came about which de-centralized the data in a way where there's nobody left to fight (with the exception of large search engines like the pirate bay. Those people that run those kinds of sites are simply criminals.)

But, even now, you have Youtube which allows the technology for piracy (how many linked videos on GS are not cleared by the uploader? Wasn't there someone bitching about Don Henley for this very thing?) but they also enforce the law when the copyright holder wishes to exercise their legal rights of control.

But, the RIAA exists to protect its members interests, which is the valuation of certain kinds of intellectual property. The RIAA lobbies to increase streaming royalties for copyright owners, and keeps the record of all ISRCs.

Torrenting copyrighted material that you do not have the permission to torrent is theft, plain and simple. To say otherwise is to say that intellectual property is worthless. If an artist chooses to seed their own music (assuming they own the master recording), and to distribute it freely for whatever reason they want, be it exposure, concert sales, merch sales, etc, they will do it. But, it is their right to choose to not make their music available through these means.
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15th June 2014
Old 15th June 2014
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Originally Posted by donsolo View Post
So really, I'm on both sides of the fence regarding the concept of torrents.

1. The technology to spread information via peer-to-peer file sharing is super-cool and when used legally, has the potential to impact change in a way that is subversive to an oppressive government. Think Wikileaks. You can make information available to anyone and ensure it's available in such a way that a single IP address, or server location can be compromised and the information remains available and unaltered.

2. A group of selfish assholes took this technology to steal property because they believe that it's a victimless crime.

The RIAA's approach originally was to fight the technology that created this black market. The problem was that it was a game of whack-a-mole and eventually the torrent came about which de-centralized the data in a way where there's nobody left to fight (with the exception of large search engines like the pirate bay. Those people that run those kinds of sites are simply criminals.)

But, even now, you have Youtube which allows the technology for piracy (how many linked videos on GS are not cleared by the uploader? Wasn't there someone bitching about Don Henley for this very thing?) but they also enforce the law when the copyright holder wishes to exercise their legal rights of control.

But, the RIAA exists to protect its members interests, which is the valuation of certain kinds of intellectual property. The RIAA lobbies to increase streaming royalties for copyright owners, and keeps the record of all ISRCs.

Torrenting copyrighted material that you do not have the permission to torrent is theft, plain and simple. To say otherwise is to say that intellectual property is worthless. If an artist chooses to seed their own music (assuming they own the master recording), and to distribute it freely for whatever reason they want, be it exposure, concert sales, merch sales, etc, they will do it. But, it is their right to choose to not make their music available through these means.
You know, we're really not supposed to discuss this stuff here anymore, but for now I'll comment a bit.

Quote:
But, even now, you have Youtube which allows the technology for piracy (how many linked videos on GS are not cleared by the uploader? Wasn't there someone bitching about Don Henley for this very thing?) but they also enforce the law when the copyright holder wishes to exercise their legal rights of control.
It's not entirely true that YT enforces copyright - they CLAIM they do but they're actually quite selective about who they give protection to. Youtube's parent company, Google, is actually the largest facilitator and monetizer of piracy on the planet, paying out millions of dollars a year in advertising revenue to pirate sites.

It's also interesting to note that while previously Youtube went to considerable lengths to prevent people ripping and saving YT videos, recently they have been actively advertizing an app for exactly that purpose, which is a clear violation of copyright law.

Quote:
But, the RIAA exists to protect its members interests, which is the valuation of certain kinds of intellectual property. The RIAA lobbies to increase streaming royalties for copyright owners, and keeps the record of all ISRCs.
They don't just keep records, they ISSUE the ISRCs. USISRC.org is a subsidiary of the RIAA. I just applied for the codes for our new album today. The RIAA functions to protect the rights of anyone issuing commercial recorded product, be they Sony Music Group or little guys like me.
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#19
16th June 2014
Old 16th June 2014
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We're on the same page. AFAIK, the rules don't disallow discussion of piracy, but the advocating of it, which I think is a fine standard. Piracy has had an impact on the industry for sure and the debate is really how much impact the availability of pirated material has had on sales vs other factors such as changing tastes in media consumption (CD sales turned into DVD sales turned into video game sales for example), a lack of consistent quality output from the majors circa 1999-introduction of spotify, CD price hikes across the board, introduction of the iPod etcetera etcetera etcetera....

YT allowing downloads is something I'm not hip to yet. Whether that's piracy though has to do with the terms and conditions in the EUUE for YouTube. What Youtube has done right is that they have the automatic scanning if you ask for it where videos are scrubbed of your content and they're super-responsive to DMCA takedown notices. AFAIK, places like the pirate bay won't do anything with a takedown notice. So, if YT says it will make your content available for download, then you have a choice when you upload. If they make it something you can opt out of, even better.

So, while some jackass may upload my album and set it for download-able, if I tell YT to take it down, they'll take it down and the jackass will be banned if they do it more than once or twice (allows for some honest mistakes I guess.)

What YT has done that does make me happy is rather than having to take such heavy measures, I can say "hey, that's my content!" And YT gives me the option of reaping ad revenue from the video in question rather than taking it down and hurting the feelings of jackass uploader. Most importantly, that's a decision left to me, the content owner.
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16th June 2014
Old 16th June 2014
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So, while some jackass may upload my album and set it for download-able, if I tell YT to take it down, they'll take it down and the jackass will be banned if they do it more than once or twice (allows for some honest mistakes I guess.)
Have you tried it? I haven't, but all the reports I've seen on the antipiracy blogs suggest that it's not the clear-cut and definitely favors big corporate interests.
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16th June 2014
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Have you tried it? I haven't, but all the reports I've seen on the antipiracy blogs suggest that it's not the clear-cut and definitely favors big corporate interests.
I've been through it twice, once with MySpace, and once with YouTube. Both with takedowns, haven't had to consider the ad thing. I did my last DMCA takedown before that was an option, even then! the issue at play wasn't financial. Some dude took a work, modified it, and was using that to spread hate speech. This is really why copyright laws are important, y'all. The first one was a band who didn't own the recording and bailed from a development deal and used the rough tracks next to their shitty attempts at home implying that they did my work without any compensation. That processed sucked. Ultimately, I had to send a super-threatening email and lined up an attorney if they were unresponsive. I never heard back, but the track in question was removed a week later.

YouTube has clearly laid out instructions on how to assert your rights as the content creator. I spent about 45 minutes researching my options and the concept of "fair use" and whatnot, then about 15 minutes filling out the form. Homeboy in question did send me a very nasty message. I mean, have an opinion on whether a digital copy is actually theft (it is) but when it comes to what I'm trying to do in this world, white supremacy ain't part of it. I don't mind if that crowd boycotts my music or just doesn't care. Their values are not in line with my own and while we are all allowed our feelings, you're not allowed to use my work to spread a message of hate and exclusion.
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16th June 2014
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Why not criticize outrageous pay? Some people on this earth make too much money. There far too many, who who too little money.

That statement is from the Capitalist 101 handbook.. Time out for that kinda of BS thinking and brainwashing.

So, I'll criticize all I like for those consume ridiculous vast amounts of wealth while the rest us become poorer and poorer.



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16th June 2014
Old 16th June 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjdpro View Post
Why not criticize outrageous pay? Some people on this earth make too much money. There far too many, who who too little money.

That statement is from the Capitalist 101 handbook.. Time out for that kinda of BS thinking and brainwashing.

So, I'll criticize all I like for those consume ridiculous vast amounts of wealth while the rest us become poorer and poorer.
$1.5m in Washington is only upper middle-class brotha.

It's a lot easier to tear others down than to build yourself up, but ultimately, you're not improving your own situation that way.

That being said, I think someone making $1.5m/year should be paying quite a bit more than they do in taxes...
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16th June 2014
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But, 1.5 million brotha ( whatever that means), is a lot more than the Nation Us average salary which around 44k per year.

Stating facts and speaking truth to power, is not "tearing down", rather speaking out on this extreme and outrageous wage gap in America.

Truly, Capitalism and greed is working for some, but not for the majority.



Quote:
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$1.5m in Washington is only upper middle-class brotha.

It's a lot easier to tear others down than to build yourself up, but ultimately, you're not improving your own situation that way.

That being said, I think someone making $1.5m/year should be paying quite a bit more than they do in taxes...
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16th June 2014
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Originally Posted by jjdpro View Post
But, 1.5 million brotha ( whatever that means), is a lot more than the Nation Us average salary which around 44k per year.

Stating facts and speaking truth to power, is not "tearing down", rather speaking out on this extreme and outrageous wage gap in America.

Truly, Capitalism and greed is working for some, but not for the majority.
And piracy works for nobody that makes their living in the music industry….how about that wage gap? You spend a pile of money to create your music/video/movie/book/software and someone drops it on a Torrent site (which has ad revenues from places like Google) so that people can take your property without cost (and for 99.9% of the time, without repercussion) and not remunerate you in any way.
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#26
16th June 2014
Old 16th June 2014
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Originally Posted by donsolo View Post
I've been through it twice, once with MySpace, and once with YouTube. Both with takedowns, haven't had to consider the ad thing. I did my last DMCA takedown before that was an option, even then! the issue at play wasn't financial. Some dude took a work, modified it, and was using that to spread hate speech. This is really why copyright laws are important, y'all. The first one was a band who didn't own the recording and bailed from a development deal and used the rough tracks next to their shitty attempts at home implying that they did my work without any compensation. That processed sucked. Ultimately, I had to send a super-threatening email and lined up an attorney if they were unresponsive. I never heard back, but the track in question was removed a week later.

YouTube has clearly laid out instructions on how to assert your rights as the content creator. I spent about 45 minutes researching my options and the concept of "fair use" and whatnot, then about 15 minutes filling out the form. Homeboy in question did send me a very nasty message. I mean, have an opinion on whether a digital copy is actually theft (it is) but when it comes to what I'm trying to do in this world, white supremacy ain't part of it. I don't mind if that crowd boycotts my music or just doesn't care. Their values are not in line with my own and while we are all allowed our feelings, you're not allowed to use my work to spread a message of hate and exclusion.
I have no doubt that Youtube worked swiftly and properly in your case. However, if it had not been a clear cut case of hate speech they might not have been so swift to act and may not have acted at all if you had simply asked for an infringing video to be removed. From what I've been told they also set quotas as to how many complaints they'll act on from one source, especially if that source is not large and corporate.
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16th June 2014
Old 16th June 2014
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But, 1.5 million brotha ( whatever that means), is a lot more than the Nation Us average salary which around 44k per year.

Stating facts and speaking truth to power, is not "tearing down", rather speaking out on this extreme and outrageous wage gap in America.

Truly, Capitalism and greed is working for some, but not for the majority.
Don't you think that a person responsible for running an important organization should make more than the average salary? I certainly do. It's not an average job and requires significantly more than average skills.

Why don't you complain about Tim Westergren's $1 mil income PER MONTH from Pandora, which pays musicians negligible amounts for streaming?

$1.5 m may seem like a lot to you but it's chicken feed in the corporate world. Relative to the pay of most CEOs for major corporations it's not even on the scale - midlevel management of a company like Google or Facebook makes more than that.

In fact, if you wanna complain about something complain about Google making multi-millions (if not billions) of dollars by subsidizing piracy sites with banner ads.
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#28
16th June 2014
Old 16th June 2014
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo View Post
That being said, I think someone making $1.5m/year should be paying quite a bit more than they do in taxes...
Damn straight!
#29
16th June 2014
Old 16th June 2014
  #29
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I agree with everything you stated.. My initials response was the person who stated that we should not complain about what someone makes..

I worked for a certain car company that for years designed and built sub standard cars. Not one line worked designed, or purchased substandard parts for the cars they were building. But, the VPs and CEO's compensation was enormous.. Even when they were driving the company down the drain..



Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Don't you think that a person responsible for running an important organization should make more than the average salary? I certainly do. It's not an average job and requires significantly more than average skills.

Why don't you complain about Tim Westergren's $1 mil income PER MONTH from Pandora, which pays musicians negligible amounts for streaming?

$1.5 m may seem like a lot to you but it's chicken feed in the corporate world. Relative to the pay of most CEOs for major corporations it's not even on the scale - midlevel management of a company like Google or Facebook makes more than that.

In fact, if you wanna complain about something complain about Google making multi-millions (if not billions) of dollars by subsidizing piracy sites with banner ads.
#30
17th June 2014
Old 17th June 2014
  #30
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Joined: Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Don't you think that a person responsible for running an important organization should make more than the average salary? I certainly do. It's not an average job and requires significantly more than average skills.

Why don't you complain about Tim Westergren's $1 mil income PER MONTH from Pandora, which pays musicians negligible amounts for streaming?

$1.5 m may seem like a lot to you but it's chicken feed in the corporate world. Relative to the pay of most CEOs for major corporations it's not even on the scale - midlevel management of a company like Google or Facebook makes more than that.

In fact, if you wanna complain about something complain about Google making multi-millions (if not billions) of dollars by subsidizing piracy sites with banner ads.
Sure they should make more than average. How about 2x or 3x as much per hour of work? After all, everyone gives up the same thing to be at work: part of their time alive on this earth. We all get to live about 75 years on average. Just because someone cleans the floors as opposed to running a company, should the time they waste working be valued as only a vanishingly small fraction of a CEO's time? That seems grotesquely unfair to me. Eventually it will seem the same to enough people that the guillotine will come back into style. Who knows, maybe we will get income inequality under control before it gets to that point. But grotesque income inequality of the sort we have in the US right now always ends badly.
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