When to start charging?

[TREMORS]

Quick rundown.
I got some gear, he doesnt.
He's a friend of a co-worker (non audio job)
He wants to record.
I want more experience, and I have the gear.
And I want the practice.

Anyway, so the guy comes over.
Has instrumental rap beats we've all heard that he likes to rap over.
Not sure how far he wants this to go, need to talk to him more.
But, I record him, twice now just rapping over these beats.
He's pretty talented, actually.
I like the guy...and, I have fun
I think if he's really serious, we can try and make our own music/beats and get him a little demo thing.
It would be a symbiotic thing.

Anyway, it's all in fun right now.
Like I said, I like the guy, he's talented..
But, if it keeps being kinda goofy "i just wanna hear myself over Nas beats"
or...doing "skits" this last time..
I'd honestly rather not do it.
I mean, it's in my apartment.
Where I come after I have already worked that day
Or, at least not do it every week like they seem to be implying so far.
Im just afraid at some point, I might be like
"guys, you know, I could be doing something else with my time tonight, if you wanna come over, cool..but, I'd like to be compensated for my time.."
I just dont wanna be a d$ck.

But, as a general rule, if you are starting out..
I dont have any credits, you know..
Do I justify charging $$ for my time, the use of my gear, me being the one that knows how to use the gear? A combo of all of the above?
I mean, I do know what I am doing, but my set up is fairly modest, too.
I think we've seen enough of those "diamond dave" type clips of pseudo youtube producers that video the moving faders on their 002...I never ever could be that guy, but I guess I just feel kinda like a dope without any credits or working out of a studio.
I just wanna be fair.
Maybe I just need a bigger ego tutt


Just to add...Id be more than willing to do something with the guy for nothing, if it were more work and less hanging out...

-Derek

[Rick Sutton]

"Hey man, I'd love to do it again next week but I gotta catch up on some other stuff. Maybe in a few weeks we can do it if I get the time. It's been a blast."

I don't think that you should bring money into the equation in the middle of a "get together" situation. Next time decide up front if you want to be paid.

[TREMORS]

I dont think I wanna do that with this situation, either.
I was afraid this would make me look like a greedy SOB, and I am not.
I described this situation kinda poorly.
I'd really like to work with him away from the "hanging out" kinda social scene, and really try and accomplish something.
He has a good voice, good rhymes
I'd gladly do a lot of this for free

But, again..to decide up front, I guess is my problem.
Even in a future situation.
I guess it depends on the who the parties, as well.
I had a guy say he wanted to record, and wanted me to think about how much I would charge...and, I never heard from him again..

If introduced as a business deal, then that's what it is.
I've close to trying to get to know more people, and do that..
I guess still, even if I decide up front, my question still comes down to...
can I justify it based on time/use of gear/me engineering "apartment sessions" versus "I'm so and so, and I worked on this and this album.."
I mean, I want to do this the rest of my life..work with audio.


You helped me out though, seeing/reading my own words again.
I was afraid I shouldnt have posted thisdfegad

-Derek

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by TREMORS

my question still comes down to...
can I justify it based on time/use of gear/me engineering "apartment sessions" versus "I'm so and so, and I worked on this and this album.."
I mean, I want to do this the rest of my life..work with audio.

-Derek

Derek, it's always tough to get started in a new business. Of course you're not going to be able to have album credits if you are just starting. If you start with a rate that is low you can feel your way through the opening stages. Once you actually charge people money the "hang out" factor tends to dissipate and more time is spent on serious work. You have to value your time and investment at a certain level.........only you can figure what that level is. If it's only $10 an hour, fine, start there. Start somewhere and the market will determine what your skills and facilities are worth at this point. If you are doing a lot of work, increase your rate. If no work shows up then go back to doing it for fun, just limit your hours and involvement so YOU say when and how many hours so that it stays fun. if you really want to make this a career you'll find the way.

[TREMORS]

Thanks for the reply, Rick.
I hope I didnt seem like a complete a-hole with my unclear originial post, but you answered my questions.
That really put it into perspective for me, essentially decided what your time is worth.

Thanks a lot.

-Derek

[donsolo]

never do anything for free imho

I'm in a dorm room right now, I get results but it's a dorm room.

Even then, I ask for a 6-pack for my time.

Sometimes alternative methods of payment (keep mind out of gutter) are better. They keep it light and you get to eat/drink for free.

"Hey yea, that's cool, why don't you bring a pizza over"

That's payment as much as that $15 would be in ca$h.

Still seems free, but isn't.

But at the same time, my experience with free is that the little nitpicky stuff comes up when they aren't consious of the time. I swear that the 75 takes for one word is ALWAYS on the free sessions. And in the end, they just want something else quick (it's never quick)

Some sort of small gesture like beer or pizza keeps everyone honest and happy. You won't feel taken advantage of and if you feel weird about it, share the beer/pizza.

Just my 2 points (pun)

[stevep]

Some sort of small gesture like beer or pizza keeps everyone honest and happy. You won't feel taken advantage of and if you feel weird about it, share the beer/pizza.

Yea its the offer that counts. free drinks and food is cool


maybe you need more control over the sessions

Some artists come into the studio not knowing the process , and waste time being unprepared. (if they are paying thats there $$$)




Most all the free work i am doing now is projects that i am producing and have control over.

When you are in charge of the session you will be able to direct it and end it if they are wasting time .......




If its in your dorm room, i wouldn't charge him unless he wants to do a crazy amount of work


i would workout some trade deal for food or drinks ,.. blank CDRs ect.......



steve

[DontLetMeDrown]

You could tell the guy, "Yeah, I'm kinda busy with some other projects, but maybe we could work out a deal and make a kick-ass CD". From there you two could decide what would be reasonable compensation.