Musicians finding the recording process 'boring'

Ever get that?

Finding sounds - boring
Playing it right - boring
Concentrating carefully to see how your record is going - boring

It's not guarenteed that everyone out there us going to find the recording process as facinating as us gearslutz do...

That can really piss me off...



I was moaning to an assistant the other day about a band member who didnt like the new vocal on his bands tune, I said that he should have been in the studio listening if he really gave a shit, the assitant reminded me, 'he WAS, fast asleep on the couch in the back of the control room!'



Any tricks & tips for the vacant, tired & "weed brained" generation? (you know the sort of kids that sit around and yawn all day?)

I felt like the teacher in the movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off!

"Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

grudge

OK,

I realize,

I need

Playstation II

cable TV

A pool or Ping Pong table

Cause of all the boring stuf going on in the control room

[bassmac]

It’s funny - but I use to be that kid - and wish now I had paid more attention to what was going on in the control room - instead of acting like, um... well, a kid.

[stealthbalance]

Originally posted by Jules
OK,

I realize,

I need

Playstation II

cable TV

A pool or Ping Pong table

Cause of all the boring stuf going on in the control room

-----------------------------------

jules , you need that stuff anyway - because as a studio owner , if you are paid on a daily rate , this can and will earn you so much more in studio time because of all the wanking on a pinball machine and the like. ive always felt a good pinball or pool table is the most important piece of outbourd gear to be had. $$$$$$$$$
s

[RobMacki]

(In Homer Simpson voice)
Hmmmmm. That gives me an idea.

[quasimodonyc]

I ran into this for the first time last week, and was pretty stunned. WTF? When I was a musician, I was as serious as a heart attack about every aspect of the band but these guys were so not interested. I dealt with it by getting rid of them asap. IMNSHO, a bad attitude and cynicism is a killer.

[Robotnik]

PORN.

[recorderman]

common Jules...

You gotta admit.

Listening to the same song over, and over, and over IS pretty damn boring...
unless you have "our" disease.

[BrianT]

Maybe it really is boring, but we have become techno-drones and are blind to that potential truth, since it's not boring to us, as we get to sit and fiddle with our toys endlessly, hopefully while being paid to do so. I believe that's a pretty decent possibility of the scenario, when assessed objectively.

Compared to playing a concert on-stage, sitting on your butt waiting for the producer to select the "perfect" click track sample for that next song does lack a certain zing, does it not? Maybe we are guilty of choking the life out of young musicians in our pursuit of things 95% of their listeners will never notice, and wouldn't care about even if we pointed them out.

Black Sabbath's debut album was recorded in 12 hours at a cost of $900, warts and all. Here's Ozzie, living large, 34 years later. Led Zeppelin I was recorded in less than 30 hours. It was the ultimate recruiting poster for rock music. I don't think anybody was bored at those sessions. Ahhh....actual talent, along with rehearsal beforehand. What a great idea.

So I'm just thinking out loud here, but maybe:

1. Making records really has become boring and overly focused on the technical (though being geeks, we mostly fail to notice)

because......

2. The majority of current, aspiring musicians lack (A) talent, (B) innovation, or (C) both

but.........

3. We record them anyway, because we all need a gig, and since other people are getting marginal talent signed to deals, maybe we can/should too

so, then........

4. We "have" to fix them up with smoke and mirrors. This is convenient because we get paid to do this. If talented people made platinum albums in about 24 hours on a regular basis, we would be screwed.

Now to put this in perspective, I just spent 14 hours today overdubbing a seriously talented session drummer on 5 songs at the Tracking Room here in Nashville. We had a fabulous time, the drums sounded and felt great, nobody was bored, and it was a good day's work.

But everybody there (artist was not present) had made a concious decision some years ago to make their living inside the recording studio. Everybody there possessed at least some talent plus the desire to innovate.

But I think it may be silly to expect a bunch of kids, who just want to play some music they like, for other people to get off on (which is the purest form of pop music, IMO), to enjoy the quasi-endless process of modern recording. And maybe the fact that the highly technical process, that often makes people feel subservient to a machine, is starting to bug them is a good sign for the future.

Maybe they'll get desperate enough to woodshed, get their stuff really together, and come in to record a platinum album in 12 hours. Would that not truly rock?


Regards,
Brian T


P.S. Bob O......if you're in this thread, fill us in on how much the players on early Motown records obsessed on, and were overshadowed by, technology. Was Marvin Gaye gonna give you 25 vocal passes to comp from, if you had the box to do it?

BTW - I am just 'venting' / moaning, it's my fault that I dont have enough 'goodies' to distract/ entertain bands.. So what do I expect etc....

[bassmac]

Good points Brian.

To the casual on-looker, mixing in the box probably looks about as exciting as watching somebody analyze spreadsheets. Kids usually have pretty short attention span, and if things don't start sounding like a record (er, I mean CD) in 5 or 10 minutes - they tend to start getting fidgety - which is why it's good to have some toys handy.

[quasimodonyc]

Good post, Brian.

[e-cue]

Give them a bag of riddelin laced weed.

[bassmac]

Originally posted by e-cue
Give them a bag of riddelin laced weed.

I ran out of cash for 'toys'...

I better get some soon..

[Bob Olhsson]

We invented compin' at Motown. it's why I'm so against people going crazy with it!

I've always found that the final record almost always feels exactly like the kind of energy that went into putting it together. When I get bored, I worry a lot about the quality of the song because I've never been very bored when I was working on a real hit.

And yes, people ought to be thinking really hard about how much time wasn't spent making most of the classic pop records. Sgt. Pepper's, Stevie Wonder, Fleetwood Mac and Michael Jackson were never the norm of how most classic pop records were made.

[Dave Martin]

What Bob said. Sitting around, even in a studio, is not nearly as much fun as playing. That's one of the reasons I don't usually fly vocals around while the talent is present - I'll do it at the end of the day.

I know that a bunch of y'all work in a manner so that you get a usable (that is, fixable) drum track and then layer other instruments on top of that, one at a time. Perhaps changing the workflow so that the talent spends more time performing and less time sitting around would not only help with the 'bored musician' problem, but also give you more exciting tracks.

[alphajerk]

you know whats fun? having all the musicians lay down the complete take live with no OD's. playing as a band, no one sitting around [except me with my eyes closed listening to the monitors]

it works really great with a great "mood" in the live room. oh, and they all have to play in the same room. together. all the way through. no ****ups.

i know its a tough concept to imagine.

[DigitMus]

Originally posted by alphajerk
you know whats fun? having all the musicians lay down the complete take live with no OD's. playing as a band, no one sitting around [except me with my eyes closed listening to the monitors]

it works really great with a great "mood" in the live room. oh, and they all have to play in the same room. together. all the way through. no ****ups.

i know its a tough concept to imagine.

It sure seems to be tough for the bands that want me to record them. That's why I don't stay too booked up. I always tell 'em in preproduction that I expect them to be able to play all the way through, all together, with no mistakes. They all THINK they can ["Man, we been rehearsin' this shit for a ****in' YEAR, we can play it in our SLEEP!"] but the ones who really can are rare as rocking-horse manure. Watching the faces on playback is a sad experience - you can actually see the egos collapsing (I actually derive a kind of sick glee from watching some of the arrogant muthas). After about take 13 of the first song - which by now is sounding far worse than the first take - I send them back to woodshed. most of them never return.
The ones who get bored with the recording process are the ones who lay down steaming piles of "their sound" and want you to transform it into music.

Scott

[davemc]

Well I am tossing up a PS2 or Xbox at the moment to replace the PS1. Well I spent a lot on the new acoustics better get a toy PS2 seems to be getting the best votes so far....
I made sure with the new design I had a lounge area.

Bands that can play without mistakes they care about are getting less and less.. Normally I say well do you practice without mistakes everytime, so how do you expect to get it 100% right in the studio..Some genres are worse where the music can become ego wanking...No mistakes allowed.

The worst is when they say its cool apart from the one mistake in the 1st verse and you have to hold back saying which one

You do need toys, I am also next to a busy shopping street with lots of cafes and a few pubs

[Jam]

When I was a youngster in a rock band I had the fortune to work with a name producer in a reasonable studio ( demoing for a major ) and I spent the whole time wide eyed with glee and to this day still value the knowledge gained.
The drummer spent the whole week in the lounge playing playstation.
This totally pissed of the producer who couldn't believe that anyone could care so little about what they had professed their life time ambition. As our career or lack of it unfolded the drummer was many times singled out for criticism by label reps engineers and producers. To the point the management spent the last year we were together trying to coax more effort/ commitment out of him. In the end for whatever reasons we didn't get a deal and I can't help wondering wether a lack of focus may have been part of the reason.

Jam

All good points

The most recent 'bored band' I had through here DID manage to catch "lightning in a bottle" on their last visit to my studio...

I think they were disapointed that they/we didnt manage it this time round..

I think there are

All live tracks
Totally produced tracks

I think it's possible to fall short between those two stools sometimes..

neither are 'wrong' IMHO.

Clearly some folks here lean towards an anything thats not live = bullshit politic, and thats a valid viewpoint. (I find it the most exciting path to take myself)

(Insert ancient proverb here)

[Alécio Costa]

Jules,
at the end of the recording session we ( my client, assistant and I) would go to one of those popular $1 stores and buy lots of porno VHS tapes and ice cream and laugh for an hour.
It will be a different vive at your place
lol

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by Jules
Clearly some folks here lean towards an anything thats not live = bullshit politic, and thats a valid viewpoint. (I find it the most exciting path to take myself)

i dont think its bullshit which ever way one goes. the other way pays a **** of a lot more... and i will gladly take their money if thats what they want to spend it on, but i also give them options and make it their decision... which they can sometimes shoot their feet off with.

doing it all live makes for a LOW budget album. tracking an album in 4 hours. mixing it in 8 [or less]... there is no time for them to be occupied with playstation.

[DigitMus]

Originally posted by Jules

Clearly some folks here lean towards an anything thats not live = bullshit politic,

Well, not when it comes to recording (though it may not show in my previous post), I'm willing to record in any way that gets the job done. My point was that the band has to prove to me they're CAPABLE of doing it that way, otherwise they're not ready to record in MY studio.
It might help to know that almost all the recording I do nowadays is of the "charity" variety, since I don't need the money, and they probably couldn't afford me.


Scott

[Murray]

Originally posted by BrianT ...

2. The majority of current, aspiring musicians lack (A) talent, (B) innovation, or (C) both

Do they? Or are the wrong ones getting the opportunity? Can today's producers or A & R "see" potential? Do they have the daring and vision of a George Martin? Can they find and live with the type of "perfection" that is not exactly perfect? If the young Beatles walked in to a studio today to record their first album, would their performance past the test, or would it need a lot of fixing and polishing and replacing and tuning? Is everyone involved running scared, and passing the buck?

[Paul Turpin]

I need
Playstation II
cable TV
A pool or Ping Pong table
Cause of all the borin

Where are you going to fit a Pool Table and/or a Ping Pong Table in your Place? You've only just found enough room for the drum set!

Come to think of it - I'll trade you my Ping Pong table for your ProControl (you'll need to lose it for the space considerations).

[Paul Turpin]

Here's the Ping Pong table and one of my clients.

[RichT]

Hey Jules,

Do yours fall asleep though?

Here's a pic I took yesterday, the band had been in for two days - this was around 6pm and the guy in question had been doing guitar overdubs since 11am...



Cheers,
Rich

Fall asleep?

OH YES! A few yards from the main monitors.

I need an air horn!

Granted some bands have been touring and are tired from that...

"Where are you going to fit a Pool Table and/or a Ping Pong Table in your Place? You've only just found enough room for the drum set!"

Hi Paul, I took possession of the floor above me 5 months ago, it's the "live tracking room" & Chill out area now, the old booth opposite has become the vocal / overdub booth. After tracking upstairs can also double as a "b" room with vocal booth. Finally (!) The whole floor is available for short term hire as a large control room w vocal booth, kitchen, bathroom & separate alarmed entrance.

"Come to think of it - I'll trade you my Ping Pong table for your ProControl (you'll need to lose it for the space considerations)"

Hey! I am keeping my "toy desk", I bet a Dollar PT 7 works with it!