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2nd September 2006, 08:54 PM
| #1 |
| Gear addict  Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 415
| I Think I'm Getting Screwed, BAD!!!! Please Help So, I won a keyboard in the 2k price range on ebay. The package was shipped by UPS and was left at my back door. When I got home I saw that the package was damaged, and filled a claim to UPS online. A little while later a UPS driver comes to pickup the damaged package and that's the last I hear of it. Untill yesterday, I find out that UPS has made their decision, but they will not tell me (the receiver) what their desicion is, UPS told me to contact the shipper, and he would have all the proper info. While I did contact the shipper, and now know that UPS denied the claim. The shipper told me that the reason was because I "refused the package when they came to pick it up for inspection". I don't remember anything like that, especially me refusing anything. What do I do to get my money back? Should I file with Ebay, or PayPal. Who has been in this situation before that knows what to do? Thanks for any help.
__________________ www.lasoundgallery.com "It was the 80's! People spent half their record budget on Cocaine and lit their big fat joints with $100 bills." |
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2nd September 2006, 09:25 PM
| #2 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,362
| How did you pay? Paypal? Credit Card (hopefully)?
__________________ "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy Scott Benson www.syborgstudios.com |
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2nd September 2006, 10:17 PM
| #3 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 415
| I used PayPal. The payment was split between two sources, my bank account and credit card.
__________________ www.lasoundgallery.com "It was the 80's! People spent half their record budget on Cocaine and lit their big fat joints with $100 bills." |
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2nd September 2006, 10:32 PM
| #4 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: burnaby, b.c. canaduh
Posts: 817
| Okay... You will have to take this up with UPS, first. They are morons sometimes. No one in their right mind leaves a 2000k package at someone's door unattended. Both UPS and Fedx have left me some lesser valued packages at my door, when I was not home. I was f@cking livid! I phoned them and told them never to do so again. The rep. at UPS said that they would "try" never to do that again... But, it's all up to the disgression of the individual driver. FedEx did promise me never to leave a package at my door again without a signature. They have no right to deny your claim. When a UPS delivery arrives at your house you are supposed to inspect your goods for possible damage.Makre the driver wait, if necessary. PayPal will only get you half of your money back, with one of their claims. Hopefully you paid with a creditcard and not a direct bank transfer through paypal. Things that you buy on your creditcard are insured. Go after UPS. Demand satisfaction. Explain to them in no uncertain terms that you will be filing a claim against them with the better business bureau! You were never given the chance to inspect your package for damage when it arrived. Be firm, but polite. Demand to speak to a manager, if the customer service reps attempt to deny you satisfaction. I've been though this before with damaged goods with both UPS and FedEx. But none of my damaged stuff was left unattended at my door. I think you have a very winnable case here. Don't back down. Demand satisfaction. It will work. Good luck. Be firm in your resolve. And next time that you buy on Ebay pay through PayPal with your creditcard. Items less than 100k, you can use payPal as protection. But they do charge a fee for processing any insurance claim. I believe it's $25 or $30. Go after those nasty bastards! You can win!  |
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2nd September 2006, 10:34 PM
| #5 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: burnaby, b.c. canaduh
Posts: 817
| Contact UPS first. Then your creditcard company. I think that you may be covered.  |
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2nd September 2006, 11:31 PM
| #6 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,362
| File a "Significantly Not as Described dispute" with paypal immediately. They will freeze the sellers account until you clear things up one way or another.
__________________ "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy Scott Benson www.syborgstudios.com |
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2nd September 2006, 11:35 PM
| #7 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 415
| Roxxon, thanks for all the advice, it really makes me feel a little more comfortable in the situation. So, I just went back to my PayPal account, and it looks like I paid with my Bank Card, so there goes the credit card angle
__________________ www.lasoundgallery.com "It was the 80's! People spent half their record budget on Cocaine and lit their big fat joints with $100 bills." |
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3rd September 2006, 12:14 AM
| #8 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: burnaby, b.c. canaduh
Posts: 817
| Go after UPS. And from now on, buy only using your creditcards on Ebay, through PayPal. You can likely get half of your money back through the PayPal dispute console. Minus the processing fee. But first go after UPS on your own. If that fails, go through PayPal. Only as a last resort. Ask to speak with Customer Service and then demand to speak to a manager of that department! How much damage was there to the keyboard? Is it repairable? And if so, how much will it cost? Get an estimate from a music repair shop. Don't give up. UPS f@cked up, royally leaving your package unattended. You might have been better off if you threw the keyboard in the garbage and told USP that it had never arrived, period. They would have been forced to pay out an insurance claim. Don't let those Brown bastards get away with this. You deserve better. |
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3rd September 2006, 01:26 AM
| #9 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,362
| He can't go after UPS because the SELLER shipped the package and is the insured party. Only he can file the claim and collect. The Buyer must go after the seller to recoup his loses, and paypal is the place to start.
__________________ "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy Scott Benson www.syborgstudios.com |
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3rd September 2006, 05:53 AM
| #10 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 415
| Yeah, I called UPS agian and they wouldn't tell me anything, but they did say that they shipped the keyboard back to the seller. What would be the most appropriete next move?
__________________ www.lasoundgallery.com "It was the 80's! People spent half their record budget on Cocaine and lit their big fat joints with $100 bills." |
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3rd September 2006, 03:39 PM
| #11 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: burnaby, b.c. canaduh
Posts: 817
| Contact the seller. He could be jerking you around. So the keyboard was returned to the seller? It's possible that he is not being truthful about the situation. Nasty.  |
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3rd September 2006, 04:17 PM
| #12 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,483
| I think you've got to go after PayPal and the seller hard to get your money back. The seller has his keyboard and also has your money, this is not how it is supposed to work. Now that he has his keyboard back, you need to get your money back. He is the one who has to go after UPS for the insurance claim on that keyboard (he did insure it for the proper value didn't he?). As a seller, I always insure the items I ship to buyers, even if it means that I eat some of the shipping cost. But some sellers want to save a few bucks and not insure, and some buyers also want to save a few bucks and not insure. I just hope for your sake the items was properly insured. But since his claim has apparently been denied, you either have to rely on his integrity to return your money, or you have to make his life miserable in order to force him to return the money. Were you able to confirm with UPS that the claim was denied, or did you hear it from the seller only? Try to independently confirm this if possible. Also, how could you have "refused the package when they came to pick it up for inspection" if they came up and picked it up for inspection? That makes no sense. The fact that they picked it up and shipped it to the seller seems to mean that you did indeed allow them to pick it up. |
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3rd September 2006, 04:47 PM
| #13 | ||
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,362
| Quote:
Quote:
__________________ "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy Scott Benson www.syborgstudios.com | ||
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3rd September 2006, 05:38 PM
| #14 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: burnaby, b.c. canaduh
Posts: 817
| It sounds to me like the seller is jerking you around. It's pretty hard for UPS to deny a damage shipping claim, especially when they left a package unattended at your door. I had no idea that you had already returned the damaged keys to the seller. In the past when I received damaged goods... I also had a couple of guitars go "missing" in the mail... The sellers refunded me right away and launched insurance claims against UPS and FedEx. When they ship with UPS or FedEx all items are insured. Any honest seller would send you an immediate refund and then deal with the shipping company. Something smells awfully funny, here. Just my 2 cents. The seller should refund you at least half of the money for the keyboard. You're going to have to go after him, now. I did not realize that you had given the keys back to UPS. You should have held on to them. Hindsight is a beautiful thing... This is a really shitty way to learn some valuable life lessons. Now go after the seller for a refund. It's up to him to press UPS for a refund. |
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3rd September 2006, 08:32 PM
| #15 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 415
| Ok, so I just got another email from the seller stating: "UPS denied the claim and there is nothing that can be done about that. I've talked to them quite a bit and they said that even if they had accepted the claim, unless the item was completely destroyed, they would never have paid out the full $1700. So unfortunately, that's that." "So this puts us in a difficult position: we clearly stated "ALL SALES FINAL", which means that once that package left our hands, it was not our responsibility anymore (check Ebay policies if you're unclear about that)." "I know you're not going to like this, but we can send it back to you, but you'll have to pay for the shipping again. We stated everything very clearly on the auction to avoid being in this position and it's not our responsibility to ship it back to you at our cost. The package should have never ended back up with us. We've done everything we can to help, and we'd like to come to an agreement that will make everyone happy, but this is the situation as it stands." So, he obviouslly doesn't want to give me my money back. Should I continue to speak with him, or just file through patpal. My only consern is that he ends up with the keyboard and the money.
__________________ www.lasoundgallery.com "It was the 80's! People spent half their record budget on Cocaine and lit their big fat joints with $100 bills." |
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3rd September 2006, 08:49 PM
| #16 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,362
| Quote:
File with paypal. The insurance claim was most likely denied because the item was packaged incorrectly. That is the fault of the seller and he's responsible despite his claims. Also look into your banks policy regarding your bank card- It may work like a credit card and you can reverse the charge...Its worth a call.
__________________ "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy Scott Benson www.syborgstudios.com | |
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3rd September 2006, 10:03 PM
| #17 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: tx
Posts: 8,819
| In my experience (quite a bit) UPS usually gets out of paying claims. For one thing, there are standards for packing. They get to decide if the package could have survived a drop from three feet. If they don't think it could have, they don't have to pay. I've had several claims with UPS over the years and have yet to see a dime for damage. But I've been paid for shipments that were lost; it's harder for them to deny that. |
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4th September 2006, 05:16 AM
| #18 |
| Gear maniac  Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 289
| FedEx just left my new Presonus Eureka on my front porch last Friday! I was lucky, because I was getting ready for work, and came out when I heard something at the front door. Sure enough, the guy was just walking off. Didn't even bother to ring the bell!! Gotta watch those guys.  Amazing!!
__________________ My therapist says I am a habitual liar and an attention seeker, therefore nothing I say or write is true and under no circumstance should I be believed nor held accountable for anything I say.  ♫ ♪ ♫"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie" :: Bob Dylan |
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4th September 2006, 05:48 AM
| #19 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: burnaby, b.c. canaduh
Posts: 817
| 10 UPS insurance claims last year. Got new replacement gear from Ebay store. No shipping charges. They have a UPS account. No problems. 3 FedEx insurance claims 2 paid, one they did nothing. I fixed the unit myself. Those morons did not even come to pick up my package. I phoned them 6 times. That seller is screwing you royally. I'll bet that keyboard was f@cked from day 1. File with PayPal. This sucks. Make sure you give that bastard seller a big NEGATIVE feedback! Do you have a copy of the ad-auction that you won on Ebay? If so please post it. |
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4th September 2006, 06:29 AM
| #20 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 415
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__________________ www.lasoundgallery.com "It was the 80's! People spent half their record budget on Cocaine and lit their big fat joints with $100 bills." |
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4th September 2006, 06:35 AM
| #21 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 415
| You know looking back, he didn't have a picture of the physical keyboard, only the promo pic from the alesis website. I wonder if the keyboard was broken from day 1 like roxxon said. He also never sent me a manual, or anyother type of info. He made me pay the second the auction was over, but waited a week to ship it. All of these things are starting to sound a little weird. And playing devil's advocate to UPS, his packaging was pretty bad, I could see UPS denying the claim because to his lack of good protective packaging. Maybe he didn't pack it well on purpose, and set me up from the begining.
__________________ www.lasoundgallery.com "It was the 80's! People spent half their record budget on Cocaine and lit their big fat joints with $100 bills." |
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4th September 2006, 09:20 PM
| #22 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: burnaby, b.c. canaduh
Posts: 817
| I think you are correct. Maybe this asshole has worked others like this in the past on Ebay. That bastard needs a good pounding. |
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4th September 2006, 10:07 PM
| #23 |
| Gear nut  Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 75
| also, this guy doesn't have the money anymore, he spent it on his new house! |
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4th September 2006, 11:29 PM
| #24 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 415
| When I file my paypal and ebay claim, what should I say. Like with ebay I think the only thing I can do is report the item not recieved. How do I go about filing a proper cliam. I don't want to do something improperll andy get myself into more trouble then I'm already in.
__________________ www.lasoundgallery.com "It was the 80's! People spent half their record budget on Cocaine and lit their big fat joints with $100 bills." |
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5th September 2006, 12:41 AM
| #25 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,362
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Just go to paypals site and file a "Significantly Not as Described" dispute. You would state that you received a damaged keyboard and sent it back to the seller for a refund and so they could file an insurance claim. Make sure it describes what happened calmly and accurately. Don't be abusive or anything. Be sure to include all relevant info such as tracking numbers, dates, auction number, ect.....They then send the "dispute" to the seller for a response and freeze the sellers paypal account for the amount of the transaction until its resolved. Basically you and the seller email each other back and forth through paypal trying to work out the dispute and then you can escalate it to a "claim" if you don't get the seller to refund your money. At that point paypal looks at the two sides and makes the decision for both of you. From what you said here I'd say you have a good chance of winning. Once that happens paypal apparently tries to get the money back through the sellers paypal account, but I've never had to go that far with it (luckily).....
__________________ "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy Scott Benson www.syborgstudios.com | |
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5th September 2006, 01:41 PM
| #26 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: burnaby, b.c. canaduh
Posts: 817
| Great advice!  |
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6th September 2006, 04:59 AM
| #27 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 415
| Ok, so I filled a report with paypal. I had to write an email to the seller stating what happened with UPS and that the keyboard was damaged. He repleied back with: "The auction stated "all sales final" We did not offer any manuals or paperwork, only the synth itself (we included the power cord when we shipped, but it was not returned to us). The auction stated "shipping insurance not offered" and you did not inquire about insurance or any additional charges to obtain it." In a seperate email sent directly to me he said this: "You didn't request insurance and insurance wasn't listed as something that would be provided (check the ebay invoice for proof), but we provided it anyway, they just won't pay any on it." The shipping fee was $70. If you look at a UPS shipping calculator. Shipping from his UPS store in AL to my house in Pasadena, CA is less then $44, shipping insurance on $1700 is $13.60. When I looked that up, it seemed that $70 was correct for shipping and insurance. He also hustled me the second the auction closed to hurry with the PayPal transaction, because if I didn't pay within 24hrs, then I would get a negative feedback. I'm starting to see that it is my trust and stupidity that got me into this situation.
__________________ www.lasoundgallery.com "It was the 80's! People spent half their record budget on Cocaine and lit their big fat joints with $100 bills." |
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6th September 2006, 05:05 AM
| #28 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 415
| So, check this out. I justed checked my email, and a different buyer that was tracking the auction I won told me some interesting info. He said that the had won a different Andromeda, but the one he won's pics were stolden by the seller of the Andromeda that I won. When the other seller confronted my seller. My seller said that he was the one that stoled the pics. The catch is, t |
