Login / Register
 
How Competitive are things in the pro realm?
New Reply
Subscribe
D Rex
Thread Starter
#1
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #1
Gear interested
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 11

Thread Starter
D Rex is offline
How Competitive are things in the pro realm?

Hey Slutz!

I'm in my second year of recording school, and I love the recording stuff, I live, eat, and breath it. I've spent loads of money on my gear, and I've devoted many a sleepless night to developing my skills as an engineer....

But, from what it seems like, it isn't about doing this to survive... people are becoming aggressive about this. Like, it seems like every person in a band these days "wants to make it as an engineer" or that's their dream job or something. So whenever they meet a new engineer, it's no longer about becoming friends and networking, it's about proving how much better some people are than others.

I want to know if once you get that magical *Recording Studio Internship* that evolves into an assistant engineer job.... is it still as competitive as it seems like it is in college? Do audio engineers actually become friends that hang out? Or is it just an ulterior motive that causes everyone to "Network" like seriously, some people are getting really fierce about this audio engineering thing, but they aren't that good....

Once enough time passes, will I be able to chill for a while and just focus on music instead of snagging clients from other studios? From other fourteen year olds in their basements?? Or college kids using mbox pros?
#2
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #2
Gear maniac
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Ocean Beach, New York
Posts: 263

pultech is offline
First of all, never snag clients from any one, it is taboo and tantamount to stealing in my book.

If a client wants to work with you necause they like you/your ears, that is another story.

It often is very competitive and sometimes cutthroat.

These are the people best not to have to hang with if possible.

The finest engineers, producers, musicians etc. are a kinder humbler bunch of folks.

These are the folks I find very pleasing to work and hang with, and they will be the most likely to share what they know.

This is because they are comfortable with the knowledge that no matter what tricks you share with folks no one has your ears/vision, so how can some one steal "your sound"?

Keep your mouth shut, your ears, mind and eyes open and you will evemtually get the answers to your questions without asking or causing distractions.

Learn to be a superb assistant engineer and above all else, make the guys you work with look their best and make their job easier.

Always find the positive answer to questions you are asked (this boosts artist confidence and hapiness) as a negative comment can blow an entire session.

Offer opinions only if asked and please be kind to every one.

As you build clout, you can choose not to work with people who irk you, but always be kind and positive.

This is a small community and word gets around quickly!

Nest of luck in your quest for the golden mix
#3
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Mr. Lau's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Ecuador
Posts: 1,580
My Recordings/Credits

Mr. Lau is offline
First of all, don't steal clients from other people. Do your job, do it well, and you get recommendations from your happy clients.

Pro, experienced engineers and musicians are nice people, they just don't feel insecure about their skills, and like to share with other fellows who speak their same language. Most of them have different workflows and talking about techniques will not affect them in any way.

When you get a job as a studio assistant, you learn, you smile and you shut your mouth
__________________
Come on baby! Ride my fader!
#4
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Highlands of Scotland
Posts: 2,445

The Byre is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rex View Post
I want to know if once you get that magical *Recording Studio Internship* that evolves into an assistant engineer job....
Er . . . you wish! There are AT LEAST 15,000 graduates coming out of colleges in the US every year and they all want internships at one of the 300 or so commercial recording studios that actually are in a position to offer such a thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rex View Post
Do audio engineers actually become friends that hang out?
Yes, between breaks whilst serving the drive-though window at MacDonalds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rex View Post
some people are getting really fierce about this audio engineering thing, but they aren't that good....
That's because the education you get at nearly all colleges (except for about ten World-wide) is total and utter rubbish. We get some 200 CVs a year and almost to a man, none of them can read a sheet of music or a circuit diagram. So no music and no technology in the study of 'Music Technology!'

Playing with equipment is not a study course. Playing with ProTools, Nuendo or Reaper is not a vocation. Drooling over equipment catalogues is not a career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rex View Post
Once enough time passes, will I be able to chill for a while and just focus on music instead of snagging clients from other studios? From other fourteen year olds in their basements?? Or college kids using mbox pros?
See my first answer! Does it sound likely?
__________________
http://www.the-byre.com
#5
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Nick Morris's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,238

Nick Morris is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Er . . . you wish! There are AT LEAST 15,000 graduates coming out of colleges in the US every year and they all want internships at one of the 300 or so commercial recording studios that actually are in a position to offer such a thing.

That's because the education you get at nearly all colleges (except for about ten World-wide) is total and utter rubbish. We get some 200 CVs a year and almost to a man, none of them can read a sheet of music or a circuit diagram. So no music and no technology in the study of 'Music Technology!'

Playing with equipment is not a study course. Playing with ProTools, Nuendo or Reaper is not a vocation. Drooling over equipment catalogues is not a career.



See my first answer! Does it sound likely?
As horrible as this sounds, it is true.
#6
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #6
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,430
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is online now
Byre makes valid points (although personally my electronics skills don't really go past resoldering headphones..I can read a score though, not that I've had to do it very often in my career!). Slightly on the more cynical side of his posts though

Anyway, you'll find that IF you follow the path to try to do engineering professionally, and IF you manage to get to the point where you're getting regular work, and IF you know your stuff...you'll find people will be respectful, and there's a lot of camaraderie. None of us is an island, we all assist people coming up, we (hopefully) get to the point where people assist us, and we want those people to do well. Very few people I've worked with or for would I not want to recommend for work I couldn't do (and being an ex-pat now, there's a fair few situations where friends and colleagues I respect have taken on jobs I would otherwise have done - and I've recommended them for the jobs).

pultech is pretty much on the money - those who are secure don't have anything to prove, it's the ones who are insecure/are bluffing who are the ones who are difficult and competitive...of course, we all want to do well, but we don't go round "stealing" clients. There's a big difference between looking for a new client who may have recorded somewhere before, and actively trying to take someone else's long term client by rubbishing their previous work.

"Networking" is all about making contacts for jobs...but not all audio engineers hanging out together are networking...
__________________
<Shameless Plug>

If I've ever helped you with a technical problem or provided you with advice you found useful, you can more than repay me by checking out, and maybe buying a couple of songs, by a singer I'm working closely with. It would be much appreciated!

http://itunes.apple.com/gb/preorder/...an/id513648911

http://www.amazon.com/Jack-Robert-Ha...robert+hardman

</Shameless Plug>
#7
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 719

kiopo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Er . . . you wish! There are AT LEAST 15,000 graduates coming out of colleges in the US every year and they all want internships at one of the 300 or so commercial recording studios that actually are in a position to offer such a thing.

That's because the education you get at nearly all colleges (except for about ten World-wide) is total and utter rubbish. We get some 200 CVs a year and almost to a man, none of them can read a sheet of music or a circuit diagram. So no music and no technology in the study of 'Music Technology!'

Playing with equipment is not a study course. Playing with ProTools, Nuendo or Reaper is not a vocation. Drooling over equipment catalogues is not a career.
Have to disagree with you there a little bit. It's fairly standard practice to have vocational courses based around equipment usage, such as in the film world. More importantly, the curriculum offered on the majority of courses at 'these' institutions is increasingly aimed at preparation for a freelance and live market and purposefully moving away from preparation for studio-based assistant jobs which, as you say, are becoming rarer and rarer.

I also think it's easy to make assumptions about people from their CVs. You can easily assume that all 200 have no electronics or music theory background but you may be wrongly inferring that from where they attended or the CV format. The biggest institution where most of your applicants probably come from does have electronic engineering, acoustics and circuit diagrams on the curriculum, and does test it.

On a CV, like Psycho mentioned, I don't have any background in electronics, but can hold my own in any situation for audio purposes.

I'm as cynical as anyone about the quality of education and the intentions of private colleges, but at the end of the day you get 15,000 qualified graduates every year who are trained higher than studio assistant level for hundreds of positions. Studios have their pick and should be grateful and respectful.
__________________
Black Lodge Sound
London, UK
#8
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #8
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,430
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiopo View Post
I'm as cynical as anyone about the quality of education and the intentions of private colleges, but at the end of the day you get 15,000 qualified graduates every year who are trained higher than studio assistant level for hundreds of positions. Studios have their pick and should be grateful and respectful.
I don't think you do though.

You get 15k people with a certificate to say they're "qualified"...in what I'm not sure, but they have a degree or some other qualification.

I certainly wasn't trained to "assistant level" upon leaving - and I was top of my year from an APRS accredited course! Byre is right in that many students either aren't cut out for it, have unrealistic expectations, or simply don't actually want to do the job, once they realise is't not as glamourous as they thought it was.

Out of any course, no-one is "qualified" to be an assistant. If you're lucky, you've got the basics in place to be able to build on (that's what I had), an aptitude to learn, and common sense and humility. Most don't unfortunately. Studios most definitely don't "have their pick". Even if they had a job to offer (which most don't).
#9
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #9
Gear maniac
 
Mike Green's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Green
Posts: 258

Mike Green is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I don't think you do though.

You get 15k people with a certificate to say they're "qualified"...in what I'm not sure, but they have a degree or some other qualification.

I certainly wasn't trained to "assistant level" upon leaving - and I was top of my year from an APRS accredited course! Byre is right in that many students either aren't cut out for it, have unrealistic expectations, or simply don't actually want to do the job, once they realise is't not as glamourous as they thought it was.

Out of any course, no-one is "qualified" to be an assistant. If you're lucky, you've got the basics in place to be able to build on (that's what I had), an aptitude to learn, and common sense and humility. Most don't unfortunately. Studios most definitely don't "have their pick". Even if they had a job to offer (which most don't).
Nowadays, you either have to have a brand name or fight your way up without any regards to old customaries. Nothing that has worked before can help your job now. Being passionate and trying to get there with a small record of hurting people is the key. If you want up, you'll always step on someone's else's feet... Nobody intends to give you a hard time but nobody cares about you either... If I can get someone's else's gig by just being a better engineer, I won't pussyfoot around but do my best to get that message across. The competition is everywhere and you have to keep up your guard all the time.
#10
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #10
Gear maniac
 
Miguel Cordeiro's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Lisbon

Miguel Cordeiro is offline
Well it seems kind of agressive in the USA....
#11
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #11
Gear maniac
 
Mike Green's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Green
Posts: 258

Mike Green is offline
It's a boxing ring and your job is to take out the opponent. You can be nice in your free time and socialize with as much people you want to. But if I can get my hands on a gig, I will knock the rest out of the ring. That doesn't mean you're supposed to hurt others but to go on rampage in your own territory / whatever you are doing at that time. Excel and repel. Being nice and courteous is not gonna pay your bills, you have to perform. John Doe couldn't care less about me sitting on a pool and fishing faders.
#12
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #12
Gear addict
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: boston area
Posts: 312

carival is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Green View Post
It's a boxing ring and your job is to take out the opponent. You can be nice in your free time and socialize with as much people you want to. But if I can get my hands on a gig, I will knock the rest out of the ring. That doesn't mean you're supposed to hurt others but to go on rampage in your own territory / whatever you are doing at that time. Excel and repel. Being nice and courteous is not gonna pay your bills, you have to perform. John Doe couldn't care less about me sitting on a pool and fishing faders.
????
#13
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 
oudplayer's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 1,096
My Recordings/Credits

oudplayer is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiopo View Post
Have to disagree with you there a little bit. It's fairly standard practice to have vocational courses based around equipment usage, such as in the film world. More importantly, the curriculum offered on the majority of courses at 'these' institutions is increasingly aimed at preparation for a freelance and live market and purposefully moving away from preparation for studio-based assistant jobs which, as you say, are becoming rarer and rarer.
The UK is considerably ahead of the US in terms of audio engineering education.
#14
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #14
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,430
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by oudplayer View Post
The UK is considerably ahead of the US in terms of audio engineering education.
I don't know about the US, but there's 2 courses I rate in the UK - LIPA and Tonmeister. Those are the only 2 where the students have been consistently good.

Everything else is as good as the person going into it. Many of the "music tech" courses aren't worth the tuition fees as I see it - many don't even teach the basics of signal flow, it's all DAWs and programming.
#15
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #15
Gear addict
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: boston area
Posts: 312

carival is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by pultech View Post
First of all, never snag clients from any one, it is taboo and tantamount to stealing in my book.

If a client wants to work with you necause they like you/your ears, that is another story.

It often is very competitive and sometimes cutthroat.

These are the people best not to have to hang with if possible.

The finest engineers, producers, musicians etc. are a kinder humbler bunch of folks.

These are the folks I find very pleasing to work and hang with, and they will be the most likely to share what they know.

This is because they are comfortable with the knowledge that no matter what tricks you share with folks no one has your ears/vision, so how can some one steal "your sound"?

Keep your mouth shut, your ears, mind and eyes open and you will evemtually get the answers to your questions without asking or causing distractions.

Learn to be a superb assistant engineer and above all else, make the guys you work with look their best and make their job easier.

Always find the positive answer to questions you are asked (this boosts artist confidence and hapiness) as a negative comment can blow an entire session.

Offer opinions only if asked and please be kind to every one.

As you build clout, you can choose not to work with people who irk you, but always be kind and positive.

This is a small community and word gets around quickly!

Nest of luck in your quest for the golden mix

Consider this. Seriously.
#16
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #16
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,430
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Green View Post
Nowadays, you either have to have a brand name or fight your way up without any regards to old customaries. Nothing that has worked before can help your job now. Being passionate and trying to get there with a small record of hurting people is the key. If you want up, you'll always step on someone's else's feet... Nobody intends to give you a hard time but nobody cares about you either... If I can get someone's else's gig by just being a better engineer, I won't pussyfoot around but do my best to get that message across. The competition is everywhere and you have to keep up your guard all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Green View Post
It's a boxing ring and your job is to take out the opponent. You can be nice in your free time and socialize with as much people you want to. But if I can get my hands on a gig, I will knock the rest out of the ring. That doesn't mean you're supposed to hurt others but to go on rampage in your own territory / whatever you are doing at that time. Excel and repel. Being nice and courteous is not gonna pay your bills, you have to perform. John Doe couldn't care less about me sitting on a pool and fishing faders.
I'm fortunate then that I've never had to take this approach! If I knew of anyone who worked like this, I certainly wouldn't recommend them.

The best, busiest engineers I know are nice and courteous to fellow professionals. Yes, occasionally change engineers because they find someone more suited...but rarely is it personal. I've had it happen to me, I've been in that situation with other people too. It's fine - providing no-one is going round badmouthing, or bigging themselves up at your expense. Those sorts of people don't tend to last too long though.
HLD
#17
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #17
HLD
Gear Head
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 54

HLD is offline
Some of my best friends are sound guys..
#18
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #18
Gear nut
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 87

Anna Stoic is offline
Hell yes it's competitive. Driving to work is competitive. Get over it.

AS
Quote
1
#19
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 618

Given To Fly is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Stoic View Post
Hell yes it's competitive. Driving to work is competitive. Get over it.

AS
LOL I was about to write a long post about competition in professional environments but you summed it up in 12 words!
#20
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 15,110

joeq is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLD View Post
Some of my best friends are sound guys..
me too

it should be noted however that we are not fresh out of school and we all have our own established client lists
__________________
.

“What you ask about is music. What you like is sound. Now music and sound are akin, but they are not the same.”
— Confucius
#21
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #21
Gear maniac
 
Mike Green's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Green
Posts: 258

Mike Green is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I don't know about the US, but there's 2 courses I rate in the UK - LIPA and Tonmeister. Those are the only 2 where the students have been consistently good.

Everything else is as good as the person going into it. Many of the "music tech" courses aren't worth the tuition fees as I see it - many don't even teach the basics of signal flow, it's all DAWs and programming.
Yup, stuff you can teach yourself with the internet and youtube videos.

This business is very creative and not based on legislative texts / systems. Not every art student is going to be a great artist and there are many other artists that paved their way by simply creating art. There can be a niche for everybody though if you take the parts you're good at and combine it with something else like social skills.

I recommend watching interviews / reading posts from people that have been around in this business for quite some time. Some were fortunate enough to have made their way up in a collaborative environment / effort, some account for the complete opposite. Either way, everybody's got to cut their own path and we are all righteously entitled to our own say.
#22
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #22
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 7,750

RKrizman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rex View Post
Hey Slutz!

I'm in my second year of recording school, and I love the recording stuff, I live, eat, and breath it. I've spent loads of money on my gear, and I've devoted many a sleepless night to developing my skills as an engineer....
You've obviously found your passion, and aren't just doing this because is seems cool. Remember that 95% of everything is crap, perhaps even more in the music biz. Work to be in the 5%, then work to the top of the 5%. Forget the machiavellian intricacies of the business at this point and just focus on your skills and vision. I don't think school is necessarily the greatest thing for this, but at least take advantage of the opportunity to be shielded from the real world so you can forge your own style without the commercial world looking over your shoulder.

There's no way to say now what the business model will be in 10 years. maybe you, as part of the top 5% of the top 5% will help determine what it is.

You've gotta be "all in", or forget about it.

It's not like you have a choice anyway. You have to do this, right? If so, you'll be fine wherever it goes.

-R
HLD
#23
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #23
HLD
Gear Head
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 54

HLD is offline
Just a note on "stealing clients from other studios".. Remember, your clients are musicians and most of them freelance.. They all know, like most of us in the sound biz, how it feels when someone steal their clients. So I strongly recomend you NOT to steal any clients.. The word will come out, and I honestly don´t think musicians or producers will look favorably at sound guys like that. It may give you some gigs in the short run. However, if you´re already lost in this world.. You´re here for a marathon, right?
#24
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #24
Gear maniac
 
Miguel Cordeiro's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Lisbon

Miguel Cordeiro is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by oudplayer View Post
The UK is considerably ahead of the US in terms of audio engineering education.
My degree starts with the basics of electronics , acoustics and recording, and the develops all the areas around it up to the final year wich is basically applying all the knowledge in pratical works.
We do everything from repairing/assembling audio gear to film sound design and programming plug-ins for the existing DAWS.
I hope it will be as good as it's supposed to be
#25
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 719

kiopo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by oudplayer View Post
The UK is considerably ahead of the US in terms of audio engineering education.
I can't really comment on the difference, I'm mainly talking about the primary international educator in the area.
#26
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 719

kiopo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I don't know about the US, but there's 2 courses I rate in the UK - LIPA and Tonmeister. Those are the only 2 where the students have been consistently good.

Everything else is as good as the person going into it. Many of the "music tech" courses aren't worth the tuition fees as I see it - many don't even teach the basics of signal flow, it's all DAWs and programming.
The Tonmeister can't really be touched in terms of classic engineering education. I haven't found the same about LIPA students personally, but there are a couple of good independent places dotted around.

Part of the problem is that most of the courses are too broad because they try to cater for a variety of exit routes. You can't put music business, programming, sound design, composition, music theory, electronics, acoustics, cultural theory, music production etc etc into a 2 or 3 year course and expect there to be much depth at the end of it.

Also some of the entry requirements are practically non-existant, which continually annoys me. It's not an easy subject when it's done properly.
#27
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #27
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 54

kanpeki is offline
No matter how "positive" people try to be about this, shit sucks right now...

-You can't even record people for free because people will assume you are a 12 year old with an MPC.
-Recording for free blows (Even when it's your friends).
-Recording lower level bands (Which is what you'll be dealing with because every decent band already has their shit together with the experienced people in town) is a nightmare.
-Finding artists that aren't complete idiots is harder than ever because EVERYONE wants to be/is a musician now.

Understand that since you can't start off charging $500/song right now and people are scared of hourly because they want a deal, you are most likely going to be working with people who are ignorant to everything it takes to actually make it (Including the most important parts. ie: Great songs, marketing, financial backing, etc.) and most likely have Delusions of Grandeur. Also, as soon as you up your rates, you will kill a part of your cliental base who only came to you because it was cheaper than so and so.

I would just do what you got to do to practice and just wait out the shit storm. Practice with Weathervane stems. Write your own music and record it until it sounds professional, even if the songs aren't amazing. Learn how to make GOOD songs and what a GOOD song entails.

I quit recording other people and started focusing on my own music until this mess fixes itself. It isn't even worth it anymore and I don't want to feed the monstrosity.

Oh, and your education in audio-engineering is pretty worthless. I'd suggest switching to a real degree as soon as possible. Learn this stuff as a potential-career-hobby...Please don't waste any more money...

A real job = being able to afford REAL gear as an awesome hobby. And guess what? You don't have to do something you love because you HAVE to in order to put food on the table. If the something you loved was being a doctor/real engineer (Mechanical, computer science, biochem, etc), obviously I'd say do what you love. This field is NOT a real engineering field nor a doctor.

My (negative AND/OR realistic) 2 cents.
#28
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 544

flatfinger is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanpeki View Post
No matter how "positive" people try to be about this, shit sucks right now...

-You can't even record people for free because people will assume you are a 12 year old with an MPC.
-Recording for free blows (Even when it's your friends).
-Recording lower level bands (Which is what you'll be dealing with because every decent band already has their shit together with the experienced people in town) is a nightmare.
-Finding artists that aren't complete idiots is harder than ever because EVERYONE wants to be/is a musician now.

Understand that since you can't start off charging $500/song right now and people are scared of hourly because they want a deal, you are most likely going to be working with people who are ignorant to everything it takes to actually make it (Including the most important parts. ie: Great songs, marketing, financial backing, etc.) and most likely have Delusions of Grandeur. Also, as soon as you up your rates, you will kill a part of your cliental base who only came to you because it was cheaper than so and so.

I would just do what you got to do to practice and just wait out the shit storm. Practice with Weathervane stems. Write your own music and record it until it sounds professional, even if the songs aren't amazing. Learn how to make GOOD songs and what a GOOD song entails.

I quit recording other people and started focusing on my own music until this mess fixes itself. It isn't even worth it anymore and I don't want to feed the monstrosity.

Oh, and your education in audio-engineering is pretty worthless. I'd suggest switching to a real degree as soon as possible. Learn this stuff as a potential-career-hobby...Please don't waste any more money...

A real job = being able to afford REAL gear as an awesome hobby. And guess what? You don't have to do something you love because you HAVE to in order to put food on the table. If the something you loved was being a doctor/real engineer (Mechanical, computer science, biochem, etc), obviously I'd say do what you love. This field is NOT a real engineering field nor a doctor.

My (negative AND/OR realistic) 2 cents.
NOT "negative AND/OR realistic" or somber enough;..

Also , you forgot this link .....

America: Land of the free home of the overqualified- MSN Money
Quote:
America: Land of the free, home of the overqualified

Colleges keep pumping out graduates, even though many hold jobs that don't come close to needing a degree.


Has anybody else noticed how the disfunctional jackasses in DC are focusing on everything BUT JOB CREATION ??????? WTF






__________________
ENJOY THIS HYPERBOLE ; IT'S FREE!
#29
20th April 2013
Old 20th April 2013
  #29
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 54

kanpeki is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by flatfinger View Post

Has anybody else noticed how the disfunctional jackasses in DC are focusing on everything BUT JOB CREATION ??????? WTF


Uhhh...

Have you talked to any business owners lately?
They will tell you how hard it is to find people who actually want to work OR stay employed. Most just want to get paid to do jack shit (I guess our culture gives some delusion of this through media/entertainment). There are TONS of openings on every job site. A lot of these don't even require a college education!

There are tons of jobs but not a lot of people who want to do anything that requires "work".

I worked at a call center for a summer which was hourly pay with commission...Guess how many people filtered in and out in 2 months? (There were only 12 spots in this call center). I counted around 15 people (There might have been more)...In 2 months...15 people that were hired and stopped showing up or quit. The pay was way above minimum wage AND there were tons of benefits.
These weren't kids either. They were people in there mid-20s->late 30s.

I minored in sociology and learned about all the statistics of unemployment, but seeing something like this in real life made me question those stats.

Maybe I just got "lucky" to see this "rare" event.
#30
21st April 2013
Old 21st April 2013
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,273

Yummerz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanpeki View Post
Uhhh...

Have you talked to any business owners lately?
They will tell you how hard it is to find people who actually want to work OR stay employed. Most just want to get paid to do jack shit (I guess our culture gives some delusion of this through media/entertainment). There are TONS of openings on every job site. A lot of these don't even require a college education!

There are tons of jobs but not a lot of people who want to do anything that requires "work".

I worked at a call center for a summer which was hourly pay with commission...Guess how many people filtered in and out in 2 months? (There were only 12 spots in this call center). I counted around 15 people (There might have been more)...In 2 months...15 people that were hired and stopped showing up or quit. The pay was way above minimum wage AND there were tons of benefits.
These weren't kids either. They were people in there mid-20s->late 30s.

I minored in sociology and learned about all the statistics of unemployment, but seeing something like this in real life made me question those stats.

Maybe I just got "lucky" to see this "rare" event.
What kind of call center? I've done telemarketing and quit within a week because it was so stressful absorbing people's negativity.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.