WHO THINKS DIGIDESIGN IS WELL OVERPRICED FOR WHAT YOU GET

[rolo]

it may be expensive, but i really can't think of any other sole system that does what a hd3 accel system does... track counts... with resolution.... with processing power... with editing features. sure you could buy SEVERAL other items to clone what a hd system does... but why would i want to cause myself the headache of buying several manufacturers items... to complete a comparable system. in the end... you'd spend the same amount of money anyway.. example... G5 maxed out, tricked out $3500 to $4500, Waves APA processing unit WITH Waves plugs to be used $2000 to $4000, SSL duende $3000 (i believe, i'm not sure about the price) Apogee I/O cards with front interface ($2000 to $4000) depending. That does not even include teh DAW program like Logic $1000 or Nuendo $1800. all in all a close compared system costs the same as an hd sys. Dont forget trying to make all those different items to install and configure to work with each other. i got my hd3 accel sys tracking 20 minuites after installing. don't get me wrong... personally i think Digidesign as a company blows monkey nuts, but my hd3 accel system has paid for itself SEVERAL times over... while the other systems may do the same... it may take alot longer.

[T_R_S]

My 7 card HD system and G5 was paid for in about 7 months.
it's all relative ... I have paying clients that need a reliable system I cannot afford any down time.
I need compatability something we never had DASH, ADAT, DA-88, etc. was all horrible for transfers as everyone had different formats.
I can transfer sessions to other studios when I use the internet it's a snap.
If I need telephone support and a part to be sent out overnight Digi is there.
Regular updates etc.
To a weekend warrior HD may seem expensive and they don't need that level of service.
They should buy something else

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by cmbsounds

I think all there stuff is overpriced, i can buy hd3 if i want but i will not. Just think will computers getting better i think digi will start drop off

People have been saying that same BS line about computers for years. What you don't seem to understand is programmers are going to utilize the available horsepower to the best of it's abilities. What are you going to buy to compare to an hd3?

[SparkyCanada]

OK - I'll say it... Don't buy it if you think it's too expensive...

SparkyCanada

[Harley-OIART]

Its all about the TDM Buss architecture!

I hate digidesign sometimes, but deep down I will always love them

TDM Rigs kik arse! Low Latency Monitoring @ Hi-Fidelity...

[shanabit]

Digi is WAY OVERPRICED because I cant afford it.

Digi is a steel for those that can afford it

Its all about perspective ya know, I dont beat up digi cause I cant afford their top shelf. I just by the Le stuff and learn the software.
Digi 002 rack works fine for MY USE

[Greg Curtis]

What I feel about their price is irrelevant. The simple fact is that I must own and use it because every major studio in L.A. uses it.

[djui5]

nope

[donsolo]

I think you could do better with a few 896 HDs running DP5 on a dual G5 with say even waves Native

Then you've got a lot more bang for the buck than compared to a relatively bare HD3 system

[nlc201]

Originally Posted by donsolo

I think you could do better with a few 896 HDs running DP5 on a dual G5 with say even waves Native

Except when a client brings you a firewire drive with a Pro Tools session on it. Oh, but you can just export an OMF or consolidate each track into a single file. Tell that to a musician who has no concept of what that means. Watch OMFs not open. Watch consolidated tracks sound like crap because the edits weren't faded/smoothed over before they were made into one irreprable file. Watch things get screwed up real fast and the client wonder why in the hell a professional engineer that they're paying can't open their PT session. Lame.

I'd be willing to work in another/cheaper DAW if need be. Sad thing is, that would be far more expensive than my HD rig in the long run.

Originally Posted by donsolo

Then you've got a lot more bang for the buck than compared to a relatively bare HD3 system.

Unforutnately, a buck may be all that I may be earning at that point.

[donsolo]

but like, if you insist that they bounce each track...

I know it sounds unreasonable but theoretically you charge less for the same reason.

In the end, you make as much money without investing as much?

Good point though

[rolo]

hummm... i still don't think that you can play back 60 to 80 tracks WITH all the proper plugs on JUST a g5 with DP or anything else for that matter... AND... have you HEARD the 896's???? might as well use m-audio 1814's... they're CHEAPER.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot

Gee, I don't know, folks...let's ask Henchman!

HA HA I get that one!!!! LOL! thumbsup

[AlexLakis]

I think HD systems are overpriced considering the native processing power of todays DAWs (the cards themselves are basically rendered useless.)

I think LE systems are UNDERpriced compared to competitive software considering their bundles include hardware.

[octatonic]

Native- no idea.
HD- absolutely not.
Mine has paid for itself many times over.
Hell, I have spent 1/2 the money I spent on my protools rig on a single mic preamp.

I'd say it is cheap for what you get.

JR

[Tibbon]

Yea, I think they are overpriced... pretty much on all levels.


I saw a guy buying an mBox2 from Daddy's the other day, and I kinda felt bad for the guy. Sure he was getting a good piece, but first of all the sales guy was selling it super hard, and really pushing 'odd' points on it. He was touting all the 'great' software that it comes with. Then he was saying how he couldn't return it no matter what, since it had software which "has a copyright so you can't return it". Thank god when I purchased various protools system I got them from better places that allowed some sort of returns/exchanges if needed. I mean jeeze, it has a HARDWARE DONGLE of the mbox itself and then an iLok for all the plugings. Not allowing returns? ********. Anyway, that's just my rant on that little shitty music store. Reason to buy from Merc Audio, Parson's Audio, etc... decent places.

Yes it's overpriced. Look at the Digi002R for example. The software price is the real "X" factor in it, but that interface isn't worth even half what they charge for it. What's a Digi002R run new? I sold mine, and got an Mackie Onyx 400F and it kills it. I didn't even really want the Mackie but I was sick as hell of waiting for the Ensemble. Better monitoring section, much more stable, better drivers, better Logic integration, etc.

MBox's should be like 200 bucks, and the 002R should be like 600.

the HD systems seem 'worth it' but the company is horrid. Avid has a real habit of being horridly overpriced and having poor service if you don't pay out the ass for it.

[Dirty Halo]

Are you kidding me? Look at the capabilities of Pro tools and then try and remember how much a new Studer, Otari or decent to good 24 track machine used to cost!

And while I LOVE the sound of great analogue, you still can't touch half of what Pro Tools can do.

Then look at the next true comparison, a Fairlight system...how much was that?

Now go back and look at the cost of Pro Tools.

Are you kidding me? The problem isn't cost, the problem is everyone wanting more for less, which DOES drive the quality of gear down as manufacturers try to meet that demand.

Quite frankly, I'd rather see Pro Tools be MORE expensive and have them look at upping the quality even more and not try to be all things to all people...move to what was a Fairlight level of quality.

Sometimes somethings should be about quality, not just price. Just my two cents.

-andrews

DIRTY HALO www.dirtyhalo.com

[JBRecording]

cmbsounds...It's not so much "the gear" as it is "the ear". If you can make an amazing record using Behringer and M-Audio gear, then you're worthy of using high end stuff. If you can't even make something sound good on the low-end stuff, don't waste your money on anything more.

Specifically for Digidesign - I think their stuff is priced a bit on the high side. I do agree with the user who wrote "If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it."

[kats]

If you can make an amazing record using Behringer and M-Audio gear, then you're worthy of using high end stuff. If you can't even make something sound good on the low-end stuff, don't waste your money on anything more.

If you think your stuff is amazing on the gear you've cited, I don't think you (and I don't mean you personally) have an ear trained enough to appreciate the higher fidelity gear. I think it's better to say, if you've taken the gear to it's limit - it's time to move on. I think an important part of being a good engineer is recognizing the right tools for the job.

I'll give you an example. I walked into a session of a very well known engineer who was working outside of his studio. After checking and testing the available gear, he told the band that it's just not good enough. He gave them a list of things to get (from conversion to pres). They had no clue what the hell the stuff was and what the difference was - but in the end they were completely stoked about the recordings. The point being, aside from the band paying for engineering skills, they also got his experience and expertise on which tools to use for the job.

[drmmrboy]

WHO THINKS DIGIDESIGN IS WELL OVERPRICED FOR WHAT YOU GET?

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Are you kidding me? Look at the capabilities of Pro tools and then try and remember how much a new Studer, Otari or decent to good 24 track machine used to cost!

[emreyazgin]

you know its not only brand, and processing power, voices etc. Its also support, its also standards, its also being able to handle lots of pressure due to ongoing projects 24 hrs, having better algorithm solutions for a/d, d/a, multiplexing, better components, better craftsmanship, better intuition and the list goes on...people see some stuff as boxes...its more than that..


Also, from a business perspective, price is what people are willing to pay for a product. If you are not willing to pay the price, then its not worth for YOU. Beleive me or not, pricing strategies are as delicate as the master clock in a Prism converter. Demand/Supply is a great way to start the calculations. Every price in a market are well balanced to an equilibrium level due to the buyers, the seller, the environment etc.

[uncle duncan]

Pro Tools is to digital audio what Microsoft is to computers. If you like the idea of supporting a monopoly that is putting out an inferior product, get it. If you don't have to interface with other pro tools studios on a regular basis, get something better. If all you're doing is adding overdubs to someone else's protools session, just have them send you a stereo mix. That's how it used to be done with analog 24 tracks, and there's no reason it can't be done that way with pro tools.

[mrhappyballoon]

First off, the software is great (except for the occasional bugs). Great user interface. And now that you don't have to purchase their interfaces it is much cheaper. It was really pricy when you had to buy a digidesign digital i/o in order to use your Mytek, Prism, etc. converters with your core system. It think this was a good move on their part to allow third party companies to put a digidesign i/o in their products.

[nlc201]

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

Pro Tools is to digital audio what Microsoft is to computers. If you like the idea of supporting a monopoly that is putting out an inferior product, get it. If you don't have to interface with other pro tools studios on a regular basis, get something better. If all you're doing is adding overdubs to someone else's protools session, just have them send you a stereo mix. That's how it used to be done with analog 24 tracks, and there's no reason it can't be done that way with pro tools.

Hmmmm...that's funny....I don't FEEL like I'm using an inferior product. I also don't feel like I'm supporting the "monopoly" by buying Digidesign products either. I've met quite a few of the higher-ups in that company and thought they were all nice people trying to make good products and make some money at it as well. Oh, but making a profit is EVIL! How dare a company sell a popular product that gives them a healthy profit margin and recognition as a standard! How dare they expand their product lines into the semi-professional and live sound markets! How dare they add significantly to their staff creating jobs for people in the digital audio manufacturing field! The fiends!

WTF is up with constant digi-bashing?! Do people think it makes them better engineers to bash digi? Maybe they're making stuff up just so they seem "cool and really knowledgable" and exagerating subjective differences to a point that recording in other DAWs is like eating filet mignon at Le Cirque and recording in PT is like eating out of the garbage. Yeah, the gap is just that wide, really. When people exagerate like that, they're trying hard to really seem like they're such awesome engineers that they can hear that subjective difference so clearly (especially in their own minds).

Let's get a few things straight here:


The software is good. I'm in PT HD 7.1 at the moment and have no major issues. Through heavy session work, I haven't had a crash with a client present in over 6 months. I've also had little to no "voodoo". The program works. The functionality of it is astounding. I can do pretty much anything I can think of with it. Music/post, it just works. High sample rates are no problem either.


It sounds good. Much of the digi-bashing stems from the earlier days of PT when their software and hardware was not nearly as advanced sonically. The 192 interfaces sound great. The converters are solid with a decent clock. I don't feel I'm compromising using one sonically. Often I'll overdub using my Cranesong converters (which many people, including myself consider high up there on the quality scale). I like it better for some things but the difference is not staggering. If I didn't have it around, using the 192 converters would not in any way cause me to lose sleep. The interfaces are also flexible as hell configuration wise. It's a breeze to setup all kinds of digital and analog i/o routing through the software. Analog, TDIF, Lightpipe, AES, SPDIF are all on there and usable. Plus they're expandable for extra analog/digital i/o if you need it.


The software is powerful and sounds good. People bash mixing in the box but it certainly doesen't suck as much as most people think. Case in point, look at all the shootouts between ITB and summing boxes and consoles. In blind tests, PT does surprisingly well. I use a summing box on my system but it's more of an outboard integrator than purely for summing's sake. I'm not going to go around and say that ITB summing is better or on right par with a console, it's just different. The whole controversy I think stems from inexperienced engineers doing ITB mixes with plugins galore and wondering why the hell their mixes don't sound like TLA or AW. Maybe it's not just the tools you use folks? End of summing rant. It's been played out. Oh, and the automation in PT is top notch and easy to use.


So, let's recap. PT HD sounds great. It works great. It's powerful as hell. The systems are very fleixble in terms of configuration. 3rd party converters with direct interfaces are available if you want them. It's a legitimate standard in the music and post world making session transfers a breeze. There's a lower end version that's directly compatible. There's an enormous range of interface choice for the lower end with all the M-audio stuff. There are hundreds of 3rd party plug-ins if that's your bag. The systems are widely available and easy to set up.


Inferior product my ass.


So, for a fraction of the price of what a good 2" 24 track machine cost back in the day you can get a full blown PT HD rig that does about a thousand times more. If you want the analog sound, get a 2" machine as well. They're quite cheap at the moment. Best of both worlds. Get a console too if you want. But, you're going to have to spend $$$. Basic economic principles apply here. If you don't want to pay, fine. Buy what you want and be happy. No one's forcing you to buy anything you don't want so quit bitching.

There are many people out there happily using PT and making a living with it every day. My system didn't cost me money, it makes me money....on a daily basis. Money which I can use to buy a computer, so I can go on Gearslutz and post stupid rantings about how the core of my (and many others') setups doesn't suck despite certain peoples' almost militant crusade against it. If you don't like PT, that's fine. Use something else and shutup.

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

If all you're doing is adding overdubs to someone else's protools session, just have them send you a stereo mix. That's how it used to be done with analog 24 tracks, and there's no reason it can't be done that way with pro tools.

Final note: Yes you can work to stereo files for overdubs. That doesen't work as well with mixing though..... I deal with this *minimum* once a week....

"If you can't make a decent sounding record in PT HD, then you're either inexperienced with how it works causing a backlash against it (due to your own ignorance), or you're simply ********."


Apologies to Uncle Duncan if I seemed harsh. This post was a vent of frustration against the People's Underground Popular Resistance Commitee Against Digidesign, not necessarily directed at anyone personally.....