Cannabis and music (thread for partokers only)
Old 12th December 2012
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Cannabis and music (thread for partokers only)

Now that washington and colorado have legalized cannabis for recreational use and cannabis use has become mainstream for all but those living in backwards red states, I think it is time that we have an open and honest discussion about it and how it can enhance music perception and performance, as well as any negative effects it can have.

I for one might not even be a musician or engineer were it not for the intense bliss I feel from listening, playing, and mixing after a nice blaze. While I am able to enjoy and play without it, the difference is wildly dramatic and that enjoyment has made me so much more interested in textures and timbres and rhythms, and gets my creative juices flowing like nothing else. My creative process starts with making a great colorful home cooked meal with lots of fresh vegetables and fish or poultry, toking up a fatty, and firing up the instruments and playing freeform while recording. I purposely forget everything I have learned and wipe my mind of any thoughts and just play what I feel, pick out the best parts and build songs from there, and it works amazingly well for me.

While anything in excess can have negative effects, I think it is very difficult for someone to really enjoy certain types of music like Bob Marley or dub or avante garde jazz at the same level as someone who has the perfect amount of THC to and fro the blood brain barrier.

I have heard the "you only think it sounds better" argument a million times, mostly from those idiots who think a natural herb is the devil, but will sip grape flavored hard drugs from corked bottles and think their shit doesn't stink. I mean have you ever heard of a pot smoker going home and beating his wife like so many sloppy drunken idiots?

To me, using cannabis for musical creativity is like getting a better instrument or better monitors or any gear, it won't make shitty music sound good, but using better gear inspires you and makes you want to work more and just improves the process. Well, for me cannabis is the ultimate gear upgrade, and whatever my music sounds like to others, I attribute that sound to cannabis and the creativity it inspires in me. Pot makes good musicians and smart people better and smarter when used in the right and moderate way.

Our country is evolving state by state into a better place where people will not go to jail for using a soft herbal medicine and musicians will be free to use the herb to make music and life better for all of us.


“Herb is the healing of a nation, alcohol is the destruction.”

- Bob Marley
Old 12th December 2012
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
I think it is time that we have an open and honest discussion about it and how it can enhance music perception and performance, as well as any negative effects it can have.
OK.
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Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
While anything in excess can have negative effects, I think it is very difficult for someone to really enjoy certain types of music like Bob Marley or dub or avante garde jazz at the same level as someone who has the perfect amount of THC to and fro the blood brain barrier.
This may be difficult for you, but there is no way you can know this is true for anyone else.
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Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
I mean have you ever heard of a pot smoker going home and beating his wife like so many sloppy drunken idiots?
Yes I have. As a long time (40 years +) user, I have seen a couple of my smoker friends suffer from psychotic episodes brought on by long term use. During these episodes they were violent and threatening to family members.
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Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
Pot makes good musicians and smart people better and smarter when used in the right and moderate way.
This is just rubbish.
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Old 12th December 2012
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Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post
OK.



Yes I have. As a long time (40 years +) user, I have seen a couple of my smoker friends suffer from psychotic episodes brought on by long term use. During these episodes they were violent and threatening to family members.
A "couple of friends"? That doesn't pass the smell test, and even if it did, that would be an extremely rare anomaly, otherwise, why would you keep smoking for 40 + years if you thought it could happen to you? Give me a break.

Also, I forgot to mention the right variety of cannabis is extremely important to the level of creative and recreational enjoyment of cannabis. Here in CA we can get extremely clean organic sativa varieties, which are almost a completely different experience from any other type. Pure sativa varieties are mind highs that inspire creativity and poetic thinking. I can't stress enough how using a vaporizer as well with the right variety and strain (the right blend of cannabinols as well) that suits the individual is night and day as compared to just smoking some commercial crap they sell in other jurisdictions.
Old 12th December 2012
  #4
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ex-long term here,

For me, the mj makes me lazy as f*^k, poor focus, poor critical thought, questionable analytic processing, and for some reason my mixing skills go out the door - perception! Nothing gets done. Brain just never fires on all 4 cylinders, even though it feels like it is.

i dunno, as much as i think shes amazing to smoke when youve got nothing to do short or long term, ive come to realise the world would benefit more from its industrial application rather than its medicinal/recreations use.

I dunno, reality is weird enough. Weed just blurs the weirdness.
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Old 12th December 2012
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Originally Posted by Sxod View Post
ex-long term here,

For me, the mj makes me lazy as f*^k, poor focus, poor critical thought, questionable analytic processing, and for some reason my mixing skills go out the door - perception! Nothing gets done. Brain just never fires on all 4 cylinders, even though it feels like it is.

i dunno, as much as i think shes amazing to smoke when youve got nothing to do short or long term, ive come to realise the world would benefit more from its industrial application rather than its medicinal/recreations use.

I dunno, reality is weird enough. Weed just blurs the weirdness.
I had the same experience, and still sometimes get that way, but mostly I have methods of avoiding this including:

1. The right strain and a good vaporizer like the volcano make all the difference in the world. Organic Sativas! And you are not smoking anything, just breathing water vapor, and the bad effects you speak of are minimized.

2. I wait to smoke until after eating a healthy meal and drinking green tea, until right before I start working.

3. I have found that the right diet, yoga, breathing exercises and the occasional adrenaline rush are more than enough to counteract any tired or fuzzy minded sensations.

Like I said, do it right and in moderation, at the right times, and use it to your benefit. it is not perfect, but used in the right way it has actually forced me to eat a better diet, do more yoga, and play more interesting music. Playing with analog synths and finding new and beautiful textures is an amazing experience by itself, but cannabis has made me look at things like module patching in new and different ways and has never failed me as a cure for writer's block.
Old 12th December 2012
  #6
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Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
A "couple of friends"? That doesn't pass the smell test, and even if it did, that would be an extremely rare anomaly, otherwise, why would you keep smoking for 40 + years if you thought it could happen to you? Give me a break.
Firstly your question, which I answered, was if anyone had ever heard of a pot user attacking his wife. If that doesn't pass your smell test it is nothing to do with my answer, and more to do with the "Aren't I a clever and self righteous pot smoker" ego trip attitude.
Secondly, as a long term user I have been addicted to pot for many years. (Yes it can be addictive and damaging to health too). Don't be fooled by the "advertisers" claims of it being a soft and less harmful drug than anything else. The effects just creep up on you more slowly.
Old 12th December 2012
  #7
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Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post

I mean have you ever heard of a pot smoker going home and beating his wife like so many sloppy drunken idiots?
Uhh Yes! Almost everyone I know that has a history of this also (coincidentally) smokes too. This is not drunken thing. Its a jealousy thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by infiltered420 View Post

Pot makes good musicians and smart people better and smarter when used in the right and moderate way.
Have you seen half baked? That's how everyone I know that still smokes acts. Not exactly the smartest or sharpest people I know by any stretch.

I put it behind me some time ago and am glad I did. One of the best decisions I ever made.


Sent from my Nexus S 4G
Old 12th December 2012
  #8
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Originally Posted by Sir Chris View Post




Have you seen half baked? That's how everyone I know that still smokes acts. Not exactly the smartest or sharpest people I know by any stretch.



You have friends that feed pizza to horses too? Come to CA where everyone blazes. I had college professors that blaze down nonstop. It's naive to stereotype. You meet all types here in CA, and pretty much everyone's down here from grandma to the 6 year old kid who it helps with seizures. Asking someone here if they puff is like asking someone if they drink, even casually. You can't pin down the stoner anymore, and the laws changing are making that more and more apparent.

Miracle marijuana? 6-year-old California boy’s violent seizures dramatically subside with help of liquid marijuana - NY Daily News
Old 12th December 2012
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Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
Only now I realize you are completely full of shit.
I am actually relieved that you think that.
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Old 12th December 2012
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Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post
I am actually relieved that you think that.
The truth can be relieving.
Old 12th December 2012
  #11
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i dunno matey, to me its like living in two minds. Just cant be f%$kd to live like that anymore. I too left it behind me and have never looked back. Its not a bad thing in the slightest, but it made me realize it didnt really benefit any aspect of my existence. Im sure its helped many become a stillborn adult.

Looking back it just seems like an over extended phase, like 'screw you reality ima gonna eff you up, look at you people, you dont see what i see blah blah' - some kinda false existential tool. Nothing beats cold, hard, impartial reality. lol. At least you can rely on yourself.
Old 12th December 2012
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Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
The truth can be relieving.
The problem that you have as a cannabis evangelist is that in defending and promoting it you cease to have a balanced view, and your version of the truth becomes the only acceptable one. There are positives and negatives to cannabis use and they are numerous and particular. You will be a lot less uptight and defensive when you accept the truth of this.
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Old 12th December 2012
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pot may be good for you, but not everybody. we are all wired differently. I used to enjoy smoking pot in college, and still enjoy an occasional toke, but for the most part it makes me anxious, self-conscious, and antisocial. sometimes it makes me feel like an idiot. lol.

I would never work a session I was being paid for high. on top of it being unprofessional, it would take me three times as long to make the right patches on a bay. and this is coming from some early experiences.

oh well...
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Old 12th December 2012
  #14
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Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
You have friends that feed pizza to horses too? Come to CA where everyone blazes. I had college professors that blaze down nonstop. It's naive to stereotype. You meet all types here in CA, and pretty much everyone's down here from grandma to the 6 year old kid who it helps with seizures. Asking someone here if they puff is like asking someone if they drink, even casually. You can't pin down the stoner anymore, and the laws changing are making that more and more apparent.
Been there done that. CA ain't all that man. Same shit as Miami only Miami is way better with way hotter girls. You also seem to defend cannabis fiercely. Maybe you should embrace rehab. Try not doing for some time and let me know how you feel. I bet you'll feel 10xs the man with a much clearer mind. At least that's how I felt. That's why I never looked back. And no, my friends don't feed pizza to horses. We don't really have horses in South Beach sir.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G
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Old 12th December 2012
  #15
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Originally Posted by otobianki74 View Post
for the most part it makes me anxious, self-conscious, and antisocial. sometimes it makes me feel like an idiot. lol.
That describes my experience as well.

But I haven't smoked since the late 80's but I'm kind of thinking of looking to get into some 'natural' mind alterations for when I'm 'retired' and free from pretty much most responsibilities except to indulge in my interests.

I just found about these vaporizer things. Thats good because I really didn't want to be putting all that gummy residue into my lungs via smoking the stuff
Old 12th December 2012
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Originally Posted by Sir Chris View Post
Been there done that. CA ain't all that man. Same shit as Miami only Miami is way better with way hotter girls. You also seem to defend cannabis fiercely. Maybe you should embrace rehab. Try not doing for some time and let me know how you feel. I bet you'll feel 10xs the man with a much clearer mind. At least that's how I felt. That's why I never looked back. And no, my friends don't feed pizza to horses. We don't really have horses in South Beach sir.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G
Medical isn't even legal in FL, so no you have no idea. However many growers there are there, you can't find the type of shit you can go to a store and buy, simply because there are a million different strains to choose from from a million different growers, and the best isn't the strongest, it is the cleanest with the best balance of cannabinols.

Look, I don't have to defend cannabis, it speaks for itself, and the laws which are being dismantled by progressive (read: blue/not backward) states based on ignorance of the plant were the only thing stopping it from being mainstream. It has been used for centuries and is the only "drug" that is not a poison. No one has ever died from weed. I find it ironic how many people continually consume racecar fuel as accept it as an intoxicant, while a natural dried plant in it's unprocessed form is knocked by those who have "been there done that". Perhaps you need to go there or somewhere better again.
Old 12th December 2012
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Originally Posted by Lester View Post
That describes my experience as well.

But I haven't smoked since the late 80's but I'm kind of thinking of looking to get into some 'natural' mind alterations for when I'm 'retired' and free from pretty much most responsibilities except to indulge in my interests.

I just found about these vaporizer things. Thats good because I really didn't want to be putting all that gummy residue into my lungs via smoking the stuff
Volcano vaporizer with high percentage Sativa strains. It is a different experience, no paranoia, no fuzzyness, just pure creative energy, for me at least.
Old 12th December 2012
  #18
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Yeah, if anything ya gotta admit there's really no reason for it being illegal but alcohol is as being simply arbitrary circumstances of history
Old 12th December 2012
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
Volcano vaporizer with high percentage Sativa strains. It is a different experience, no paranoia, no fuzzyness, just pure creative energy, for me at least.
Sure, when the time is right it won't hurt to give it a go. I wouldn't mind moving to colorado or washington state anyway... however, I might even expat to south america, though I wouldn't want to run afoul of their laws.

And if it winds up making me feel the way it used to, I'll go with mushrooms.
Old 12th December 2012
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
You can't pin down the stoner anymore, and the laws changing are making that more and more apparent.
[/url]
I am fairly sure that the changes in law are more to do with the Government pinning the stoner down and paving the way for the tax revenue from future Government licensed cannabis industry business sales. As the tax revenue from tobacco sales continue to fall, cannabis will be the new golden goose.
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Old 12th December 2012
  #21
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Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post
I am fairly sure that the changes in law are more to do with the Government pinning the stoner down and paving the way for the tax revenue from future Government licensed cannabis industry business sales. As the tax revenue from tobacco sales continue to fall, cannabis will be the new golden goose.
Surprised it hasn't happened a long time ago if only for that reason alone.

Ya know... capitalism... anything for a buck!
Old 12th December 2012
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Originally Posted by Lester View Post
Yeah, if anything ya gotta admit there's really no reason for it being illegal but alcohol is as being simply arbitrary circumstances of history
Well thankfully we have free flowing information now, and soon in this country at least more and more people are coming to their senses about so many things that were just a product of pure ignorance. Our society is now evolving so that consenting adults will allow each other to live their lives free of the ignorances of religion-based and draconian laws. It's funny that in CA the ballot for recreational use of cannabis failed because the growers voted against it because they would lose revenues to corporations.
Old 12th December 2012
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
Well thankfully we have free flowing information now, and soon in this country at least more and more people are coming to their senses about so many things that were just a product of pure ignorance. Our society is now evolving so that consenting adults will allow each other to live their lives free of the ignorances of religion-based and draconian laws. It's funny that in CA the ballot for recreational use of cannabis failed because the growers voted against it because they would lose revenues to corporations.
"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson

"An acre of the best ground for hemp, is to be selected and sewn in hemp and be kept for a permanent hemp patch." - Thomas Jefferson's Garden book

"The culture [of tobacco] is pernicious. This plant greatly exhausts the soil. Of course, it requires much manure, therefore other productions are deprived of manure, yielding no nourishment for cattle, there is no return for the manure expended... It is impolitic... The fact well established in the system of agriculture is that the best hemp and the best tobacco grow on the same kind of soil. The former article is of the first necessity to the commerce and marine, in other words to the wealth and protection of the country. The latter, never useful and sometimes pernicious, derives its estimation from caprice, and its best value from the taxes to which it was formerly exposed..."
-- Thomas Jefferson
Farm Journal (16 March 1791)

“Make the most of the Indian hemp seed, sow it everywhere.”
-George Washington

"What was done with the seed saved from the India Hemp last summer? It ought, all of it, to have been sewn again; that not only a stock of seed sufficient for my own purposes might have been raised, but to have disseminated the seed to others; as it is more valuable than the common Hemp."
George Washington
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Old 12th December 2012
  #24
Absolutely, everyone is "wired" differently... The war on drugs has been a total failure. Bring on the pharmaceutical organics.
Old 12th December 2012
  #25
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I am a frequent pot smoker and have a great job (pharmacy manager), nice place to live and tons of gear I play a lot.
Smoking helps me a great deal in enhancing the process. I design better sounds,write better songs stoned, better lyrics and perform better live. I rarely drink booze, and other than mushrooms don't do any other drugs including the shite I sell at work.
This is me. Not for everyone. Especially those who believed the propaganda, especially in the US, that pot is the gateway drug, when alcohol is people's first drug and that it will lead to hard drugs. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy for many.
Not to mention the many healing powers weed has that have been empirically proven.
Having said all this there still is a segment of the population who cannot moderate as it is part of their constitution. For those I pity.
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Old 12th December 2012
  #26
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Originally Posted by verve92 View Post
Having said all this there still is a segment of the population who cannot moderate as it is part of their constitution. For those I pity.
Moderation and patience is the key, along with a vape and the right strain. While I would love to wake and bake everyday and blaze all day, I know this is not efficient. So I get levels, everything perfect, practice for a while, eat (diet is just as important as herb), puff and hit record. Some wild things I would never think to do happen in the moment, that is what improv is all about. Some engineers are all about getting the first performance, and that sentiment is exponentiated with the ganj, the first performance after a fresh tube.

Practice and rehearse sober, then toke up for the real deal, that's the way to get great recordings.
Old 12th December 2012
  #27
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Sir Chris's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post
"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson

"An acre of the best ground for hemp, is to be selected and sewn in hemp and be kept for a permanent hemp patch." - Thomas Jefferson's Garden book

"The culture [of tobacco] is pernicious. This plant greatly exhausts the soil. Of course, it requires much manure, therefore other productions are deprived of manure, yielding no nourishment for cattle, there is no return for the manure expended... It is impolitic... The fact well established in the system of agriculture is that the best hemp and the best tobacco grow on the same kind of soil. The former article is of the first necessity to the commerce and marine, in other words to the wealth and protection of the country. The latter, never useful and sometimes pernicious, derives its estimation from caprice, and its best value from the taxes to which it was formerly exposed..."
-- Thomas Jefferson
Farm Journal (16 March 1791)

“Make the most of the Indian hemp seed, sow it everywhere.”
-George Washington

"What was done with the seed saved from the India Hemp last summer? It ought, all of it, to have been sewn again; that not only a stock of seed sufficient for my own purposes might have been raised, but to have disseminated the seed to others; as it is more valuable than the common Hemp."
George Washington
Love how you take these quotes out of context and shape it to what you want to see. In reality though, hemp was grown for its threads, which in those days was more efficient to process to make everything from clothes, rope, sails, etc. Up until the cotton gin was invented. But of course a pothead would assume its a reference to smoking....facepalm.

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Old 12th December 2012
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sxod View Post
ex-long term here,

For me, the mj makes me lazy as f*^k, poor focus, poor critical thought, questionable analytic processing, and for some reason my mixing skills go out the door - perception! Nothing gets done. Brain just never fires on all 4 cylinders, even though it feels like it is.

i dunno, as much as i think shes amazing to smoke when youve got nothing to do short or long term, ive come to realise the world would benefit more from its industrial application rather than its medicinal/recreations use.

I dunno, reality is weird enough. Weed just blurs the weirdness.
Great topic!

This is why I quit years ago. For me, pot works on some level toward a higher appreciation of others art, but it does nothing to help me create mine. I need a clear head to be creative. Creative is hard work. When I smoke, I sort of turn into Jeff Spicoli.

I do have to say that I miss burning one and walking around the Chicago Art Institute for what seemed like 4 or 5 days getting totally lost in the journey. But the brain can't recover like it used to.

And how can one effectively sift and roll when nobody's making double vinyl albums anymore with fold out covers?

I still love that Lawrence Welk, "One Toke Over the Line," introduced by a coughing and choking Myron Floren. That's classic stuff. And the guy's name is Dick Dale. Whoa Dude! Dude!!
Old 12th December 2012
  #29
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Zyzygis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Chris View Post
In reality though, hemp was grown for its threads, which in those days was more efficient to process to make everything from clothes, rope, sails, etc. Up until the cotton gin was invented. But of course a pothead would assume its a reference to smoking....facepalm.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G
You missunderstood. I posted these quotes to point to that very fact:

"The culture [of tobacco] is pernicious. This plant greatly exhausts the soil. Of course, it requires much manure, therefore other productions are deprived of manure, yielding no nourishment for cattle, there is no return for the manure expended... It is impolitic... The fact well established in the system of agriculture is that the best hemp and the best tobacco grow on the same kind of soil. The former article is of the first necessity to the commerce and marine, in other words to the wealth and protection of the country. The latter, never useful and sometimes pernicious, derives its estimation from caprice, and its best value from the taxes to which it was formerly exposed..."

If you read the quote carefully you will see that it talks about the uses of hemp for purposes other than getting high. I was using it to illustrate the point that there are many ways to use this plant.
Old 12th December 2012
  #30
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Back in the early 90s, seldom a day went by without partaking. We would sit around for hours jamming, having a blast, break to grill or whatever, back to the circle, on and on... at the time, it worked for us. We played and wrote mostly psychedelic rock, and it just flowed. It worked for us.

Today, none of us (the circle) are regular consumers. At least, none of us with our shit together. No offense to anyone who this works out for, as I know a lot of ppl who are totally capable of functioning while partaking. For some reason, it just didn't work out that way for some of us. Personally, I get really really lazy. I would rather observe than create. Sometimes it goes into full-on paranoia, where I am questioning my life choices and worrying about my own mortality... jeez, I don't need all of that. I want to LIVE and CREATE, not think about DYING and VEGETATE.

All of this said, I strongly believe that green should be taxed and regulated for those who wish to consume it. I am a conservative (don't be fooled) and believe that if a person can handle a relatively benign natural product, they should have the right to do so in the privacy of their own homes without government interference (other than being taxed for it at the store).

I also believe that a vast majority of MUSIC consumers (those actually purchasing product or attending shows) are green consumers themselves. So just because it doesn't work CREATIVELY for me, that doesn't mean it doesn't work RECREATIONALLY for me.

Besides, we all need paying customers if we want this to be more than a "starving artist thing".
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