Getting a job in the industry

[junebughunter]

I've lived in central valley of California all of my life. I am 20 years old, I've had an interest in music through out. I know a lot of musicians and engineers, I can pretty confidently say I've at least met just about every professional engineer, be it live-sound or recording, within my city and a lot from other towns. Only a handful pull in a full salary from it and most end up doing side-gigs like playing in cover bands or working in entirely different non-music-related fields.

I never finished college, I tried to go to Berklee but even with scholarships it was just too expensive to attend. I went for a summer guitar sessions thing and although it was just a week long thing it was one of the best weeks of my life.

I've been recording as a hobby and semi-professionally for the past 5 years. I've done a few demos for local bands. Nothing fantastic but everything turned out well. I have dealt with deadlines when it comes to these types of projects and always made them. I am extremely self motivated. Blah blah...

I'm a good guy, good all around musician, good live and recording engineer, I know a shit load of information about gear, a damn good guitarist and I am tech savvy as I make a living as a software engineer and contracted web-designer.

I'd move anywhere in the US, actually, anywhere in the world for a decent paying music related job, so long as it doesn't involve being a saleman. And by decent paying, I mean anything that covered my car payment, a place to live and a little extra for some gear here and there.

So what do I do to actually persue that? I now realize it doesn't always, if ever work like...this band/engineer is good, lets make him famous. So what do I have to do to make this a career?

[TheRigaletto]

start doing alot of sessions for free to start a network of people and get your name out, but honestly your age works against you in getting a full-time gig. Try seeing if you can get an internship somewhere. Engineers are always happy to have an intern to do the dirty work (equip maint. etc.)

Maybe check out going back to school, possibly fullsail. That's just my two cents. Good luck!

[junebughunter]

"start doing alot of sessions for free to start a network of people and get your name out"

I've done a lot of free work with my own equipment, I've networked with a lot of the local guys but with my full-time job working with computers it's just too hard to finish any big project. I'd happily help-out/engineer at a nearby studio nights or evening during the day since my current job schedule is flexible so long as I put in 40 hours but I can't think of any place that's available.


"but honestly your age works against you in getting a full-time gig. Try seeing if you can get an internship somewhere. Engineers are always happy to have an intern to do the dirty work (equip maint. etc.)"

I'd love a part-time internship but relocation isn't an option unless I have income. It bites that I am locked into my current career due to needing a source of income.


"Maybe check out going back to school, possibly fullsail. That's just my two cents. Good luck!"

I'd consider going full-sail or any music college. That's a big decision though, I am already making a lot of money in a career that I can keep making a lot of money in. Only problem is that I hate doing what I do.


I'm not trying to argue any points you make, and maybe my current mind set is closing my doors.

Basically what it comes down to is. I need a source of income, I am on my own financially and I want to be an engineer. I've got some recording experience. A lot of live sound experience for some reasonably large indie bands. So my resume or whatever isn't blank.

What is my best course of action? I want this more than anything so I'll do what it takes.

[TheRigaletto]

I respect the way you are going about it finacially. I am not a fan of any type of debt so I'd say if you are making some decent money, keep on doing that for a few years until you've saved up a great deal of money and either:

1. Go to fullsail (or other type school) completly paid for and live on campus.

2. take an intership and not have to worry about bills. live on "rice and beans and beans and rice" Dave Ramsey style.

Good luck in whatever way you decide to go, but just keep that level head finacially and you cant go wrong!

[junebughunter]

Do engineering jobs and positions just not exist? Is the market too saturated with jobless engineers? Didn't prince produce some album for a big label when he was like 17? How did everyone on gearsluts that work as engineers get their jobs?

Something just doesn't make sense to me.

[TheRigaletto]

Originally Posted by junebughunter

Do engineering jobs and positions just not exist? Is the market too saturated with jobless engineers?

Something just doesn't make sense to me.

You are very right on the saturation of the market. I know a few engineers personally(one actually worked on some Madonna and Eric Clapton stuff back in the day) that are starting to discount their prices because of the market. It's not an easy career to get into.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by junebughunter

... Didn't prince produce some album for a big label when he was like 17?..

It took a year at the Record Plant with very experienced engineers. I wouldn't exactly call that "self-taught."

I'd move to NY, LA or Nashville and find an internship. Younger is generally better.

[junebughunter]

I've got family in LA that would probably let me live with them. If I do a completely volunteer internship I could probably get by with a little begging for help from the parents and a lame taco bell job or something just to make my car payment.

That would be humbling and strange, I've worked 3 seperate salaried full time jobs and one internship doing all computer programming since I was 16 years old. The only reason I learned about computers was I bought my first DAW interface and had to debug problems I'd have. Slowly my knowledge of computers expanded. Then I picked up a programming book. Then I had a girlfriends whose dad had a friend that knew a guy looking to give an internship that paid $8.50 an hour which led to another salaried job...

What is the likely hood of finding a paid internship? Where should I start looking for internships in the LA area?

I am pretty damn serious about this, I just need to be pointed in the right direction. I will completely change my life to get a good chance of a job in a studio engineer, producer, soldering guy, coffee pot operator...you name it.

[amorris]

you have to just do it. there is no specific way to get in the business other than being completely available. go to LA., the busses are great and run on time. sell your car. dont get jaded and be at the studio all the time. i mean all the time. have a great attitude and do everything you can. after awhile, you have experience and youll be able to actually pull off a session. if you can actually pull off a session, there is plenty of work out there. I could work everyday if I wanted to. but Im getting too old for that shit.

[junebughunter]

Originally Posted by amorris

you have to just do it. there is no specific way to get in the business other than being completely available. go to LA., the busses are great and run on time. sell your car. dont get jaded and be at the studio all the time. i mean all the time. have a great attitude and do everything you can. after awhile, you have experience and youll be able to actually pull off a session. if you can actually pull off a session, there is plenty of work out there. I could work everyday if I wanted to. but Im getting too old for that shit.

I really think I'm going to do this. I'll talk to my Dad about and see how he'd feel about me moving in. I'll keep my car, it's my only expense and before I quit any jobs I'll make sure I have several months of payments saved up. If it came down to it I could sell gear I own to make car payments. If I really got in a bind I could probably sell off most of my gear and pay off my car.

Anyway, I'm not worried about that. So who do I start calling to find an internship and what is the likelyhood it will pay anything, what should I expect as far as hours are concerned etc?

I should probably start up another thread for this.

[TheRigaletto]

Originally Posted by junebughunter

what should I expect as far as hours are concerned etc?

dependant on where you work, but i would expect 40+ hrs easily

[DontLetMeDrown]

You can get your name out just fine without having to do free work. In fact, you DON'T want to be known as the guy who does free stuff.

As far as the job goes, you can do what I did: Get a job that allows you more free time. It took me almost a year to find one, but I was able to score a job where I make 43k a year and only work 6-3, 5 days a week. BTW, I'm not hourly and I'm usually done by noon. I took a cut in pay from my last job, but this one gives me lots of time to work on recording during the daytime. This way, even if I only do 1 project a month, it is enough to survive and still buy some toyz.

Hint: Try looking for a "personal assistant" type job. People who need personal assistants are usually rich yuppies who have waaaaay too much money to manage, so paying an assistant 50k a year is usually no sweat off their back.

You can thank me in the form of ca$h when you get your new job

[junebughunter]

Well I will begin the search for a job/internship now.

Any advice on where to look or call to get things rolling?

Up until this point of my life jobs have always come to me, I've never had to search for something outside of asking a few friends "Hey know of anybody that wants to hire a programmer?"

[SoulFood]

There is another way...

http://www.surrey.ac.uk/soundrec/index.php

I'm pretty shure you can find a job with this education...

[RainbowStorm]

Originally Posted by junebughunter

Well I will begin the search for a job/internship now.

Any advice on where to look or call to get things rolling?

Up until this point of my life jobs have always come to me, I've never had to search for something outside of asking a few friends "Hey know of anybody that wants to hire a programmer?"

Before you go ahead, read this.

What you currently want to achieve is doing successful business within the music industry. I really understand your feelings about music and your abilities, I'm just like you, but try to think about the business part of things as you are now focusing on getting your feet on new recording ground... What you currently should do is to market yourself as a valuable resource for people in the music industry. When people think about you they should see business opportunities.

I sometimes think of the reality like this, it's slightly worse, always slightly worse than I expect it to be. That sometimes gives me a healthy focus. I think it's much too common today that people try to enter the music business just because of the fun of it. In a perfect world that would work great and even in this world it does work to some extent, but generally the reality is a little bit uglier, just a little bit. This means today you need to have valuable knowledge in order to be interesting enough for the important job positions. When people pay you they expect you to increase their income in an important way and that puts some preassure on you... So my advice is to focus some more on the business side of things and a bit less on the music side of things. It's great if you are a great session guitarist and know a lot about gear, but what are you exactly marketing as new business opportunities for the company you are trying to get a job position at? Ask yourself that question. You need a tag line, a hook. You have a lot of options. For instance, you mentioned you are a software engineer as well. Why don't you for instance make some research within music and networking? What new business opportunities can you bring into a company with the knowledge and experience that you have within music-networking? You might for instance have knowledge about how to efficiently reduce time within a certain process with the help of networking or how to setup recording environments globally and remotely to create more flexible project setups. Another route would be being a specialist in modern recording techniques and technologies. Or you can be an expert in high quality session project management. So think beoynd the typical frameset of micing techniques, gear etc... Think of some important aspect of music business related to improving sales figures. This is what you will get hired for. Based on the company's health your role will then change according to their needs. But it's always good if you have something valuable to market when you are applying for a job position within the music industry. Don't underestimate the importance of studying. You need some credits to gain credibility in your capabilities, that's the ticket... It also helps if you include the books you've read and if possible some samples of your work, in your CV...

I hope that helps!!

[rhythmic5]

Originally Posted by junebughunter

That's a big decision though, I am already making a lot of money in a career that I can keep making a lot of money in. Only problem is that I hate doing what I do.

web design sucks, flat out.

unless you work at big spaceship, or somehow run your own successful studio.

but yeah, getting in the industry is tough shit, my cousin got a degree in audio engineering and is now stuck with the RIAA licensing crappy music for bars and restaurants, rather then doing what he was taught to do ..

I think the biggest issue is reputation. if you're unknown, or you have no significant releases you've worked on, people won't notice ..

[djui5]

The industry model as has been known for the last 30 years is crashing horribly right now. The entire music industry is shifting drastically, and life as we knew it is changing entirely. The days of large studios doing albums to be released in stores is almost not these days. There are still a handfull of large studios in operation, but that feeds that top 3% of the industry.

What you need to do is find an Engineer or Producer to hang onto. Don't go seeking studios, seek the people recording/making the music. They are the ones you wanna cling to like there is no tomorrow.

And whatever you do, don't f'k up. There is way too many people in the industry wanting your job, and they have resources to make it happen for cheaper, no matter how much your being paid.

no pressure.

[RainbowStorm]

I agree djui5, the industry is really going through a shift in sales and market climate that means new business opportunities and causes old ones to be less attractive than before. I think it's for the better, I think this will breath some intelligence into music and that will create a more rich and flexible music climate that will make the music quality go up. I think music as we knew it in the past will become something old, we are heading towards more flexible ways of consuming music, driven by social patterns and the flexibility of networking. In the future artists will not only go to live venues to do gigs but also do live gigs in studios broadcasted over the Internet as live- and as on-demand products. This trend shift will not be negative for the industry as a whole because the number of ways to sell increases, the time it takes to consume the material goes down and the number of costumers available for consumption goes up, so the consumption as a whole becomes much more efficient and that will make the demand go up. So even though big studios are closing down it doesn't mean the industry is heading towards a worse market climate. The digital age brings a whole new perspective on everything. With services like Napster, BitTorrent and Pandora's Jar the market mechanisms that earlier were very controlled by giants within entertainment, now have been eliminated and that's a good thing in a free market. So it's for the better, sales will eventually go up as companies realise the potential in the current market environment and see new modern business opportunities.

I can understand why it's pretty hard to get good positions within the music industry today, it's because a lot of companies within the music industry has a very hard time to adapt to the latest trends of file sharing, online services etc. Basically it's all about an inefficient focus. You can't think of sales and music production the way you thought of it yesterday. Things are getting more efficient now and that makes old business models very expensive. One of the easiest ways of getting a good job position within the music industry today is to start own small scale business that grows and becomes a key element in the context of modern music consumption by letting it adapt to the current market environment very well. It can be any kinds of digital services... In the past all bigger studios were like closed boxes nobody could look into, very much located and consumed physically on one place, in modern studios all music production will be broadcast over the Internet and done on networks. People will be able to watch everything very closely and manage the content very efficiently, because of the Internet, advanced UI and open communication standards. This also makes the production more efficient as people can join the production in a more flexible fashion, resources that area available on different locations can be shared, the recorded material can be scanned by AI that suggests new options. With this I think new business genres within the music industry will be born. There will be specialized studios that you can get access to very easily remotely. So it will be something that everybody will use both for fun and as new business opportunities.

If you want a job within the music industry today I think you need to make technology your best friend. Instead of looking negatively at modern technologies like file sharing, see it as building blocks of new business opportunities and focus on getting job positions were they have a very healthy and modern approach on music business as it happens today. Don't apply for job positions located at large studios that can't adapt to the latest trends very efficiently, they expect too much from the employees and their old business models and they are digging their own graves with their strategy.

Business exists were customers are, currently they are on the web. They are in record shops as well, only not as much as before...