help with my guitars!!!

[captawesm]

ok, so im recording my band in my studio right now and we dont have much time to wrap up this ep. the drums sound tight but i cant get the guitars where i want them to be. we reamped them so the playing is tight and we have 6 tracks on each side worth of guitars to choose from. i mic'd with sm57s one on axis right in front of the dusk cap and on off axis a few inches away from the cap. i cant them punching as much as the drums are. anyway ive just tried some eq and C4 but its just not there yet. I was hoping to get some pointers. here is a "rough" mix of one of the track, just bass guitars and drums right now and the drums are like 70% mixed, this is actually a day or two old export so on the new ones the kick drum has more low end rolled off so it isnt so thumpy and there is some buss compression and the psp vintage warmer on the drums. im really just looking for some direction here, thanks for anything!!!

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by captawesm

ok, so im recording my band in my studio right now and we dont have much time to wrap up this ep. the drums sound tight but i cant get the guitars where i want them to be. we reamped them so the playing is tight and we have 6 tracks on each side worth of guitars to choose from. i mic'd with sm57s one on axis right in front of the dusk cap and on off axis a few inches away from the cap. i cant them punching as much as the drums are. anyway ive just tried some eq and C4 but its just not there yet. I was hoping to get some pointers. here is a "rough" mix of one of the track, just bass guitars and drums right now and the drums are like 70% mixed, this is actually a day or two old export so on the new ones the kick drum has more low end rolled off so it isnt so thumpy and there is some buss compression and the psp vintage warmer on the drums. im really just looking for some direction here, thanks for anything!!!

The guitars sound fine, although the playing is a little inaccurate at times.
The problem is with the drums- that snare is so ****ing loud it is taking my head off, but you have compressed it to hell- snares don't usually have that much tail to them.
The kick sounds like a tom and the toms sound like paper bags.
Did you track the drums digitally?
This might sound harsh- I don't mean it to be but that is what juts out on a first listen on my monitors.

JR

[captawesm]

Originally Posted by richmondjames

The guitars sound fine, although the playing is a little inaccurate at times.
The problem is with the drums- that snare is so ****ing loud it is taking my head off, but you have compressed it to hell- snares don't usually have that much tail to them.
The kick sounds like a tom and the toms sound like paper bags.
Did you track the drums digitally?
This might sound harsh- I don't mean it to be but that is what juts out on a first listen on my monitors.

JR

like i said this is a rough mix. the snare is a lot quieter in the actual mix now. the kick has too much low end i know and it has been fixed in the newest mix but the toms to me and everyone who has heard it sound fine. the snare to us is consistent with todays modern rock/punk/metal stuff and it really isnt compressed that much, i think teh ratio is like 3:1 and the thresh is at -15. i dont get what u mean when u say the snare has lotta tail? anyway thanks for the listen i really appreciate the feedback. but u really think the guitars sound fine? not to muddy? thanks again

Jordan

[SRS]

I think it is as simple as the guitars need to be be brought up in the mix (or the drums down). The relationship between the two is off. I think otherwise it sounds fine. The toms are a bit dry for my taste though. No real tone in them. I like the tone of everything else though.

[captawesm]

thanks for all the input, i mixed it some more last night and here is what i got. its still up for critique i really want it to sound as best it can. thanks!

Jordan

[SRS]

Your "pre mix" file is better than the "test mix" file. The Test mix file has lost most of it's bottom end. Everything works better together on the test mix file, but the meat on the bottom is lost on it now. Get some of that bottom end back into it (like you had on the Pre mix file) and you will be in business. It kinda sounds like you may be battling with an acoustical issue with the low end in your mix/monitoring room. You may not be getting a true sense of where the low end is (or is not). Just a guess... It WILL come together though. I like the guitar sound and it is definitely very useable. Just gotta get that relationship tight (which you seem to have with the test mix file now) then get the fullness going again. I know you have the ability with the tracks, cause you already had it on the pre mix file.

Hope this all makes sense. I look forward to hearing your next try at it. Maybe step away from the song for a bit and come in for the attack fresh. Or possibly bring in an outsider and see what their opinion is on it, and make the adjustments accordingly. You might be losing some perspective on it at this point.

[SRS]

Is there a way you can move this thread over to the mp3 thread? It is definitely more suitable there I believe..... And will get more feedback. I know you have one there for this tune too, but not with the same comments.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by captawesm

like i said this is a rough mix. the snare is a lot quieter in the actual mix now. the kick has too much low end i know and it has been fixed in the newest mix but the toms to me and everyone who has heard it sound fine. the snare to us is consistent with todays modern rock/punk/metal stuff and it really isnt compressed that much, i think teh ratio is like 3:1 and the thresh is at -15. i dont get what u mean when u say the snare has lotta tail? anyway thanks for the listen i really appreciate the feedback. but u really think the guitars sound fine? not to muddy? thanks again

Jordan

Sorry- I wasn't being that clear I guess.
The snare crack hits, then is compressed (slow attack) and then raises in volume again (quick release).
It makes it sound a bit artificial to my ears.
I'd reverse it- quick attack, slow release.
Or maybe there is too much snare in the overheads and it is being treated differently.

This will mean you have more control over it in the mix because there will be less volume change to the snare itself- this means you don't have to have it so high in the mix.
I don't like the tom sound- to me it sounds like you used- the first mix is way better than the second mix you put up. Sorry, but it is true.
The second mix sounds like it has been crushed to death, has no dynamic range and not much bottom end.

Ok- had a few listens and what is written below is brutally honest- but you seem to have the right approach- no wish to offend.

There are a few timing problems with the different instruments, particularly the drumming around the guitar solo squeals- it is really rough in parts.
The drummer plays over the guitar mofits at 1:21- it just sounds messy.
Do one or the other but not both.

Also the harmony guitars are a bit laggy as well- nudge them 20-100 samples- the rest of the track is on top of the beat and they are not.

The tom rolls around 1:30 and then the double kicks are all out of time. It sounds like plugin compression (or something else that is causing it all to lag).
Especially at 2:17.
The drum roll at 2:58 is badly played as is the stop at 3:26.
I'd re-track it, but if you can't then use beat detective and groups to get things sitting better.

Aside from all that- I like the track, who is going to sing over it?

Drums really sound better to tape- you are always fighting a bit of a losing battle if you want a natural sound, direct to disk unless you have some killer outboard, great mic technique and a stellar player.

Hope this helps.

James

[captawesm]

Originally Posted by richmondjames

Sorry- I wasn't being that clear I guess.
The snare crack hits, then is compressed (slow attack) and then raises in volume again (quick release).
It makes it sound a bit artificial to my ears.
I'd reverse it- quick attack, slow release.
Or maybe there is too much snare in the overheads and it is being treated differently.

This will mean you have more control over it in the mix because there will be less volume change to the snare itself- this means you don't have to have it so high in the mix.
I don't like the tom sound- to me it sounds like you used- the first mix is way better than the second mix you put up. Sorry, but it is true.
The second mix sounds like it has been crushed to death, has no dynamic range and not much bottom end.

Ok- had a few listens and what is written below is brutally honest- but you seem to have the right approach- no wish to offend.

There are a few timing problems with the different instruments, particularly the drumming around the guitar solo squeals- it is really rough in parts.
The drummer plays over the guitar mofits at 1:21- it just sounds messy.
Do one or the other but not both.

Also the harmony guitars are a bit laggy as well- nudge them 20-100 samples- the rest of the track is on top of the beat and they are not.

The tom rolls around 1:30 and then the double kicks are all out of time. It sounds like plugin compression (or something else that is causing it all to lag).
Especially at 2:17.
The drum roll at 2:58 is badly played as is the stop at 3:26.
I'd re-track it, but if you can't then use beat detective and groups to get things sitting better.

Aside from all that- I like the track, who is going to sing over it?

Drums really sound better to tape- you are always fighting a bit of a losing battle if you want a natural sound, direct to disk unless you have some killer outboard, great mic technique and a stellar player.

Hope this helps.

James

Thanks for taking a second listen. Most of the playing errors you heard are just some of the fills he does and I know they are the tightest play but its just his style i guess. i did watch u said about the snare compression, slower attack faster release and it really makes a difference, almost adds some more hi end to it to make it crack more. i think i fixed the bass issue, i compressed it and turned it up more and its sounding nice, the room i mix in doesnt really show me how everything really sounds but i gotta work with it you know? Im 18 and going to college in like 4 weeks so i have no money right now. But everything is in the box recorded with my Presonus Firepod and my dual core custom pc. I have the waves diamond bundle and some other plugs so im just trying to get it the best i can. thanks again for you honest take on the song i relaly appreciate it.

Jordan