Pensado's Place guest comments on "Gold" cables

[ZFire]

He mentioned improved high end for the mic cable, so that is possible if their old cable had a capacitance issue. The power cable bit is tough though - just the human mind at work I think.

[Oldone]

My thoughts:

Any wire or component change through which electrons flow will affect the signal. That can manifest itself by a change to frequency response or EQ response. Is there a difference with high end cables, likely yes. Would it present the mixer with a different sound image to which they would respond differently with EQ versus another wire? Probably.

Does that guarantee one a better mix? Maybe. It still depends on the mixer and what they can do with the information provided. Is your average home user going to get a night and day difference by buying expensive wire? I don't think so because without a pristine listening space and the hardware to take advantage of a fuller sound image it all means very little.

[Ernest Buckley]

Originally Posted by jayfield

It starts about 25:00 of this Pensado vid-- Thoughts?
Great interview BTW!

Episode 85: Mix Engineer, Mike Shipley - Pensado's Place

My favorite part is when DP asked him whats his favorite gear for less than $500. Shipley responds that he doesn`t know how much anything costs. Priceless.

[Ernest Buckley]

Originally Posted by jayfield

It starts about 25:00 of this Pensado vid-- Thoughts?
Great interview BTW!

Episode 85: Mix Engineer, Mike Shipley - Pensado's Place

To answer your question...

I`m sure every stage of the signal affects the sound to some minute degree but the truth is we know it comes down to the performance and song anyway.

We`re at the point now where a $10,000 home studio can do justice to a song so whether or not you want to use gold or platinum.... it really doesn`t matter much.

If I were DP, my follow-up to Shipley`s answer would have been,

"So Mike, in your estimation, how many more records does gold cable sell at the end of the day?"

Just thinking out loud...

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley

To answer your question...

I`m sure every stage of the signal affects the sound to some minute degree but the truth is we know it comes down to the performance and song anyway.

We`re at the point now where a $10,000 home studio can do justice to a song so whether or not you want to use gold or platinum.... it really doesn`t matter much.

If I were DP, my follow-up to Shipley`s answer would have been,

"So Mike, in your estimation, how many more records does gold cable sell at the end of the day?"

Just thinking out loud...

You could say this about analog consoles verse itb and summing or whatever. Personally, I don't buy the cable myth and when I hear somebody make claims about gold cabling or million dollar audiophile lightbulbs for your cars headlights I tend to value their opinions less.

[ddageek]

I always laugh at the guy who spends $30k on cables but tracks in his bedroom.
Think how much more $30k in acoustics would improve his sound.

As far as the cost thing, at this point Mike isn't looking at cost its what works!

[Ernest Buckley]

Originally Posted by ddageek

I always laugh at the guy who spends $30k on cables but tracks in his bedroom.
Think how much more $30k in acoustics would improve his sound.

As far as the cost thing, at this point Mike isn't looking at cost its what works!

I don`t think anyone is spending that kind of cash for wiring their bedroom studio. Do you? Come on...

[Grant Ransom]

Originally Posted by Oldone

My thoughts:

Any wire or component change through which electrons flow will affect the signal. That can manifest itself by a change to frequency response or EQ response. Is there a difference with high end cables, likely yes...

Does that guarantee one a better mix? Maybe.

We certainly would like esoteric cables to make a difference. That's the problem. And the only meaningful aspect is whether the changes are actually perceptible, considering what we know about our hearing systems (of which the ear is only the first part) and how much we often change what we perceive to match expectation.

What I don't get, is why the frequency changes that esoteric gear like a cable brings to systems are supposedly ALWAYS advantageous? Including short run, lo-z stuff...
(I'm aware of the measurable effects in Guitar & Mic etc. cables).
Who's got measurements?

[jayfield]

Originally Posted by ddageek

I always laugh at the guy who spends $30k on cables but tracks in his bedroom.
Think how much more $30k in acoustics would improve his sound.

As far as the cost thing, at this point Mike isn't looking at cost its what works!

Mike states---"This is a very tough subject to talk about, and it gets to be a very personal opinion.-----we A/B'd two mike cables on the Allison Krause CD it was like night and day----Pensado--"ya mean like 1,000 dollars worth of night and day" Mike---"Like 100,000 dollars of night and day--to me"---"not subtle--a very significant difference"

I feel he is very convinced that he hears a huge difference in the gold cables. It makes no sense for him to jump into this endless controversial topic unless he is committed to his opinion. The mixing on the Allison K. CD--to me is amazing. The man has some very "big" ears indeed! Yikes!!

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by jayfield

Mike states---"This is a very tough subject to talk about, and it gets to be a very personal opinion.-----we A/B'd two mike cables on the Allison Krause CD it was like night and day----Pensado--"ya mean like 1,000 dollars worth of night and day" Mike---"Like 100,000 dollars of night and day--to me"---"not subtle--a very significant difference"

I feel he is very convinced that he hears a huge difference in the gold cables. It makes no sense for him to jump into this endless controversial topic unless he is committed to his opinion. The mixing on the Allison K. CD--to me is amazing. The man has some very "big" ears indeed! Yikes!!

I guess if you just won a Grammy for best engineered album, you have a guy on your team called Danny Mckinney, producer is Mutt Lange, money is no object. And - it sounds-good-to-you...

Well - gold cables all the way baby! and while your at it - where dat platinum at?

[shipshape]

Here we go

[redrue]

What does 'gold' cable mean exactly?

[Ernest Buckley]

Originally Posted by shipshape

Ernest Buckley , what a crazy post. Get you adats out and go for it !!
I've mixed records that total around 200 million in sales so far so I understand how important sales are Ernest , but the sound has some bearing on what goes on in the process , so why not make it as good as possible ? Just a thought . Regardless of Whether its called a bedroom or a studio or an outhouse etc

LOL Mike, I know you love me still. Unlike most on here, you know where to find me... no hiding here behind an avatar. Google me and listen to some music when you have nothing to do or feel like laughing.

Again Mike, read my posts before going nuts, no one was questioning your hearing. All I would like to know if how many sales can you credit to those gold cables?

Keep rocking mate,
EB

[over-man]

Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley

LOL Mike, I know you love me still. Unlike most on here, you know where to find me... no hiding here behind an avatar. Google me and listen to some music when you have nothing to do or feel like laughing.

Again Mike, read my posts before going nuts, no one was questioning your hearing. All I would like to know if how many sales can you credit to those gold cables?

Keep rocking mate,
EB

It's all about the sales, is it?

[Ernest Buckley]

Originally Posted by over-man

It's all about the sales, is it?

OK, before this gets out of hand (again)... Mr. Shipley doesn`t need gold cables to make great sounding records or sell a billion albums. The man is a legend, the proof is in the pudding as they say... just asking how many sales would he credit to those gold cables.

It`s not being disrespectful; its a simple question. Whatever the case, I will still continue to be a fan of Mr. Lange and Mr. Shipley.

[CompEq]

Why gold? I guess that would be more of a question for Danny, though. Both copper and silver are less resistive than gold.

I recently tested several "name" cables with a friend and found up to a 1/2 dB difference at 20kHz between the cables. The ones we measured were 60' long. I don't doubt the difference in sound, but would be inclined to think that gold would roll off the higher frequencies more than copper or silver.

How long is the gold cable that was used?





Oh, I can already tell the direction this thread is heading. My post is buried and Mike ain't coming back. I certainly can't blame him. What has happened to this place???

[up and at them]

Who even makes a gold cable? I hope we're not talking about mogami gold.

[jayfield]

When I heard Mike Shipley had one the Grammy for best engineered album I took a listen to the Allison Krauss CD in my well treated studio. I read a recent SOS interview with Mike on the project--


I could totally relate to his wanting to maintain the dynamics of these amazing musicians on the "Paper Airplane" project These cats put the "D" in dynamic. Truth be told, I hadn't heard any recent music that captured as much subtlety and nuances as Mike's engineering did. The guy stuck to his integrity and nailed it! If Mike says it helps, then I'm goin gold cables all the way baby! I need all the help I can get!

QUOTE MIKE SHIPLEY SOS JULY 2011

“We really wanted this record to sound as dynamic and full and warm as possible, and keep that extra bottom octave that goes when you crush everything, and this attitude, of course, also extended to the mastering, which was done by Brad Blackwood of Euphonic Masters in Memphis, TN. He pretty much masters all my stuff these days, because I don’t want to work with the trendy loudness?war guys. It’s really hard these days to make good?sounding records. It’s a constant battle with the labels who want to micro?manage everything, and it’s a battle that I hate, because there are a few records that I did recently that were destroyed by the mastering.
“With the record I did before this, with Mutt, we had spent a lot of time on getting the dynamics and the bottom end right, and we ended up with a record that we were all proud of, and then we got the mastered version back and it was awful. We actually tried to recall the record, but the label refused. Our complaint fell on deaf ears, so to speak. It is almost too painful to talk about how many records these days get annihilated in the mastering process. It’s a sad fact. But with Alison’s record we had full control over everything, from the recording stage to the mastering process, and we’re very proud of how it came out. Nobody has complained that it’s not loud enough. Instead we get feedback from people saying how much they enjoy the dynamics and the sound."

[toneguru]

I would never question Mr. Shipley to qualify his take on anything in music or audio.

In my own experience, everything makes a difference.

I have had the pleasure of working with like minded musicians just as persnickety and discerning as Mike seems to be and for me it makes all the difference. Its a pleasure, for in the end things get done quicker, easier and the end result is usually stellar.

Some of us are born with a singular priority. That is "do whatever it takes to achieve great tone". Most people don't get it.

- Cheers

[jayfield]

Roger that Toneguru!

[Faderjockey]

This stuff is funny.. Of course Mike doesn't need them.. But if you can afford to have them or they give them to him whatever..Why not use them.

Just because Mike has had a few hits.. what's he supposed to do stop searching for better sound? I'm sure he's like us and that's why he got into he this likes toys..if he was broke and recording local bands he would still be looking for better tones.. But I'm sure it wouldn't be crazy priced gear..

But he made it to an area we all would love (well maybe some wouldn't love it) where you get to play with highend toys and get to track/Mix people who are great at what they do.

If I was him..I'd be playing with everything. But at the same time.. Maybe he's to busy to try lots of stuff so when he does get something new he likes he mentions it then the whole audio world picks it apart.. I'm sure this is a headache and also why Mutt doesn't do interviews.

[Ernest Buckley]

Originally Posted by shipshape

Here we go

LOL

Here`s to you Mike!

Seriously, I have the utmost respect for you.

Cheers mate,
EB

[totalgear]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

Personally, I don't buy the cable myth and when I hear somebody make claims about gold cabling or million dollar audiophile lightbulbs for your cars headlights I tend to value their opinions less.

Agreed

[Ryan Gregory]

this is probably going to attract some anger, but I AB'd a Monster and a Mogami cable, and the difference was extremely noticeable, WAY more noticeable than I expected. I just plugged the 2 cables into 2 channels of a mixer, made sure all the channel settings were exactly the same, plugged the mic into one, and then plugged it into the next. Me and the guy with me were both like "holy shit"….. huge difference, seriously. The Mogami sounded way better. For the record, I expected to hear nothing.

[shipshape]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

You could say this about analog consoles verse itb and summing or whatever. Personally, I don't buy the cable myth and when I hear somebody make claims about gold cabling or million dollar audiophile lightbulbs for your cars headlights I tend to value their opinions less.

Gearslutz or Gearhaters is this forum ? So sad this forum is . Wow. You value my opinion less now ? Ok
But why a borderline personal attack ?
I don't get it.
I'm genuinely trying to help and I get attacked , I'm out .

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by Ryan Gregory

this is probably going to attract some anger, but I AB'd a Monster and a Mogami cable, and the difference was extremely noticeable, WAY more noticeable than I expected. I just plugged the 2 cables into 2 channels of a mixer, made sure all the channel settings were exactly the same, plugged the mic into one, and then plugged it into the next. Me and the guy with me were both like "holy shit"….. huge difference, seriously. The Mogami sounded way better. For the record, I expected to hear nothing.

Just outta curiosity, did you try switching the cables between the two channels to make sure the difference you heard wasn't caused by some discrepancy between those two channels on the mixer?

...And by chance did you do your test in a "double-blind" fashion?

I mean, don't get me wrong - I'm not challenging your integrity or anything; I just really want to know how you did your test.

.

[GYang]

Ufff...

[Mr XY]

oh brother. The last time I saw a thread about Mike Shipley it went the same way. What is wrong with people? You are ruining the internet! This forum used to be such a great resource. - it's such a shame.

Your experiences may not match up with what Mike Shipley is saying on the video but it's pretty obvious he's genuinely stating what they all heard in the room - it's not like he's hyping a particular product so why the suspicion and lack of respect for someone sharing their knowledge for free?

No one is forcing you to believe or concur - so why be obnoxious about it?

The idea that it's cool to post along the lines of " i don't buy this and i don't respect this guys opinion" blows my mind.

Equally, the question of "how many more record's are you going to sell because of this cable" is such a terrible and bizzare attitude. Obviously the answer is zero, but some people are all about the craft of recording and obsess about the details - and if you check out Mike Shpley's work it's apparent he is incredibly detail oriented. If your life's work is recording and mixing music, why on-earth wouldn't you want to make the best sounding records you possibly can??

[Faderjockey]

I find it funny..that guys that claim they are audio engineers will go back and forth on the sound of plugs or gear.. but think cables don't matter..

We run our sound through it.. I see this with gtr players all the time (and I'm a gtr player) but Gtr players (and of course this doesn't mean all but most) don't think about speakers like audio engineers do.. They don't realize their pedals/pickups respond different based on speakers.. Then the guys who get it I know go crazy about speakers and breaking them in.. But I end up telling these gtr guys it's every thing you hear.. Who cares about the gtr,strings pedals whatever you have to hear all that comes out of a speaker.. So yeah they are important.

The same goes for cabling.. anything man made of course can be done great or half ass. If you own great monitors and other nice gear or even went to the trouble of spending money on room treatment then why skimp on the cabling? They can build cabling with very good quality material..and some cable not so good material.
Everything has to run through that... It's the cheap tires on a nice car thing.

Now I get the part where we aren't talking about $100 cable next to $30grand cable.. I've seen those talks.. I'm not that rich nor would I want to spend that. I have seen plenty of guys not use say mogami but would happily just wire up some really nice gear with Hosa cable and be fine with it..

It's not that much more for Mogami.. But I've had guys who spent thousands and thousands on nice stuff stand there and tell me the cable didn't matter...
I don't understand what makes those guys choose that nice gear.. if they then turn around and say cable doesn't matter..

For that matter not sure how they shower and leave the house.. scary.