Pensado's Place guest comments on "Gold" cables

[Muser]

I'm pretty agnostic about a lot of things, unless I've tested them. even then I can remain pretty skeptical.

but when someone says, don't be stupid everyone knows Unicorns don't exist.
I usually ask them how they explain this then !!

Canned Meat Unicorn Plush | eBay

[JSt0rm]

Originally Posted by drew

I'll say it again.

Real names, verified accounts or it's only going to get worse (if that's possible)

it was a great idea 10 years ago. I guess the traffic and ad income are too much now to resist.

Id be down for that but I wont release my name on a forum that is searchable by google.

[mindkontrolle]

Originally Posted by toneguru

For those who take their cable seriously or are just curious...

Cardas Clear Beyond Speaker Cable Review

Clearly there ARE going to be con-men in this area, they will take advantage of those who don't know any better and who do equate how much they spend on something to how much they like it. Mike, however, doesn't even know what anything costs... That seems pretty objective to me.

[Ernest Buckley]

If a song/performance fails to connect to the listener, no cable will make that emotional connection. End of story for me. If a certain type of cable floats your boat, then great, use it. At the end of the day when you`re sitting alone with a mix, if it does not move you, no cable can fix that.

[piano]

Originally Posted by redrue

What does 'gold' cable mean exactly?

I think they are referring to a silver cable - or more accurately a silver plated low strand count copper conductor and 97% silver plated copper shielding that enables "pure signal flow". Its capacitance is 25 pF/ft – dialed in to minimize early high frequency roll off and provide for premium note articulation.

I am fairly sure a gold cable does not exist...... unless you are an oil baron.

[latestflavor]

when it comes to low voltage mic and instrument cables, i notice a significant difference in silver. i do not care for them, and dumped my zaollas at a loss. i prefer the off the shelf mogami gold, which i assume is "just a regular cable" and what shipshape was referring to. beyond this, i use all sorts of mogami and the really thick high end monsters - and i notice no real difference between them.

when it comes to short line level patch cables i don't sweat it, but i'm not mixing off a console.

[passmore]

connectors must match at both ends that are mated otherwise you are not doing yourself a favor.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley

If a song/performance fails to connect to the listener, no cable will make that emotional connection. End of story for me. If a certain type of cable floats your boat, then great, use it. At the end of the day when you`re sitting alone with a mix, if it does not move you, no cable can fix that.

I'd like to thank you for giving the opposing point of view from Mr. Straw Man.

Also, I can say that about every piece of gear I own. Every darn thing.

How should I record without gear?

[mindkontrolle]

Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley

If a song/performance fails to connect to the listener, no cable will make that emotional connection. End of story for me. If a certain type of cable floats your boat, then great, use it. At the end of the day when you`re sitting alone with a mix, if it does not move you, no cable can fix that.

Well sure. You're just stating the obvious and it's even off-topic. The issue at hand is about the spectrum of perceivable sound quality, the subject of musicianship and songwriting has not been the issue during this thread. It's about different technology producing different results, and then making a statement about whether or not that difference is desirable to YOU.

Cables have nothing to do with emotional content, that is absurd, but if replacing the tube microphone cable that goes to its power supply with a custom gold/silver alloy one is imparting a change in the high-frequency material that has gotten you closer to the ideal sound in one's mind, then there can be no argument other than:
1) Is this something that needs to be rejected because money is an issue and it will only cause cognitive dissonance for the average slut? - or -
2) At what point is there no difference between cable quality imparting change and who is to say where the limit is drawn? Can you *really* say that there is no difference at all....

[chip mcdonald]

Uhm.... someone could post some sound files for comparison?

Or is that just a crazy party-pooper notion?

[chk23]

Originally Posted by zakco

Cable discussions make you emotional?

Sorry, no native speaker here. In German language you also use the term "emotional" for a discussion where people get agitated. And with some people announcing their leave from GS after being attacked in this thread, I would say the german term "emotional" is exactly the right one to discribe this discussion here...

[chk23]

Originally Posted by Muser

It would be a bit like telling an Artist that them believing they perform better when they wear a lucky charm is a stupid idea. good luck with your production career on that one. :p

Yeah, that's exactly what it is and that is totally ok and justified. But this is a gear forum, so off course people start debating if there really is an effective improvement in audio quality and if it's worth the money.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

I've been here since 09 and I have one infraction, I usually hate posting here about posting here but really, this is kindergarten. If Mike Shipley wants to use gold cables, I'm not going to slag the guys work but really, just cause he uses them doesn't mean I have to wholeheartedly agree with it and not voice my opinion on the matter in forum that is been designated to do just that.

Exactly. And if i believe that wearing a lucky charm or burning an original Neumann Mic to ashes on a small altar before starting to work on a new album will make my work better, well, I can say that but imho a gear/engineering forum is the wrong place to discuss that.

[entropy]

Originally Posted by shipshape

""I tried silver speaker cables (in fact I still use them), and they did make a slight "difference"...but that difference was more than likely just a touch of gain, that I think I might have perceived as "detail"...I certainly wouldn't buy them again, but they were reasonable and they look nicer, so I kept them.

But even a different gauge cable makes a slight difference...but really still, it's all minutiae.""


Well that's good , minutiae all adds up over a bunch of tracks as I'm sure you can imagine. That ends up being a big difference in the end. To Me.
Mike Shipley

Hey Ship. Great to see you about here again and I'm sorry your seem to be taking some unjust abuse, yet again.

I have no doubt you can hear a difference. But is the difference you're hearing in the cables somewhat negated by what you do after the event? Are the mic/preamp choices, EQ moves, whatever.... reactionary to what you're hearing back? For instance if there's a little more 5k on cable A, would you not make an allowance it and as a result, you're final mix is still in the same ballpark regardless of the wire?

[Showcase]

I admit, i have never cared about cables.

I once saw a cable blind test some Hifi nerds put up, or read about it actually. In the test, Lots of hi end cables and among them an ordinary power cord to a lamp, no one could spot it.

[CeretoneAudio]

Originally Posted by shipshape

There is only 3 percent gold in the cables , the rest is silver , the reel of cable used was found in Europe by Danny , to meet his requirements , I have nothing to gain financially by this or anything else I use.
Mike Shipley

Mike your first post in this thread was probably the best (and probably the only one needed)

The one one where you mentioned 200 million in album sales...

For any one who's not that smart.... it looks like this

200,000,000 ......... yowza!

[Bassmankr]

Mike, some more info would be nice about the cable and how you used it (short length directly to mic pre?). I'm glad you stated your not pimping. Despite what Kenny believes it's a buyer beware world and given that prior cabling threads here have shown to especially bring out the agendas, no one should get a free pass. I fully expect all reading even my postings here to be just as sceptical about my claims and opinions. Regardless of that respect should have been given to you for just expressing your opinion. Getting your hands dirty researching, auditioning, and testing as blindly as possible is a member's best practice. Sharing our experiences and opinions is what makes this site a useful resource.

If the cable you used is only 3% gold then it really should have been termed "silver cable". Gold is a common impurity found in silver ore as is silver being a common impurity found in gold ore (a quick look on the net will show some gold ore containing 40% silver). For those who want to know more about this: Gold parting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Getting silver pure is what costs money so finding an alloy that contains gold is not a surprise and probably is more reasonably priced than a purer form of silver. Sterling silver (sometimes called "925") is only 92.5% silver. Fine silver (sometimes called "999" or pure silver) is 99.9% silver. The purest form of silver is "99999" and is so costly to remove the remaining impurities that it costs more than pure gold and thus not a commercial product due to price.

[CeretoneAudio]

Originally Posted by Bassmankr

Mike, some more info would be nice about the cable and how you used it (short length directly to mic pre?).

Not trying to speak out of line here because I'm not 100% sure, but the cable being referred to here is the cable between the mic and the power supply of a Sony c800g (ie NOT a mic lead) and also the power cable powering the c800g power supply.

The album being referred to is

Alison Krauss & the Union Station

Paper Airplane

The album received a Grammy as best engineered record.

[TheOxmyn]

OT but getting into Pensado's Place ITL, DP mentions KUSH AUDIO THC EQ.
3:48 mark

[chk23]

Originally Posted by CeretoneAudio

Mike your first post in this thread was probably the best (and probably the only one needed)

The one one where you mentioned 200 million in album sales...

For any one who's not that smart.... it looks like this

200,000,000 ......... yowza!

Yes, that's exactly the point: If you sell 200 Million albums, it's absolutely no problem at all buying 500$ cables that suit your vision. If you don't have that bazillion $$$ budget at hand, it might be worth trying out cables until you find one that will give you exactly the same result for a tenth of the price (and those do exist).

That's the important message: You don't have to pay such sums for a quality cable. I saw a very good example for the importance of stating this message in the Low End Theory forum just yesterday. There was this guy looking for a decent preamp/mic combination who didn't bother much thinking about what will be the right mic or preamp (he already chose the SM7b for the mic), but was worrying badly about the cable and thus asking again and again how he should select the right XLR that wouldn't spoil his setup. This is exactly what comes from threads like this.

So if a successful and famous engineer/musician says that his diamond studded uber-gear helped him suiting his vision: great for him! But don't be tempted to think that it would help you in any way with your situation. Even if you're a seasoned pro yourself.

[Jules]

Originally Posted by chk23

.....But this is a gear forum, so off course people start debating if there really is an effective improvement in audio quality and if it's worth the money.

Exactly.

I don't get how it gets to become more complicated than that.

How may different positions on the subject can there be?

*I don't believe the person who said they can hear a difference actually can
*I haven't heard it but I am certain there is no difference
*I cant afford these sorts of cables and that bugs me
*HiFi nuts have all sorts of BS theories about power cables - so I feel this mic cable issue is 'the same thing'
*I am sure the person who said they could hear a difference knows what they are talking about and if I won the lottery you can be damn sure I would have some of those cables too! (My opinion)
*I am a member of charity that protects people from being over charged for cables. The damage to their wallets upsets me. We all need to unite to help people losing money on cables.

Er.. I think that covers it...

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by Jules

*I am a member of charity that protects people from being over charged for cables. The damage to their wallets upsets me. We all need to unite to help people losing money on cables.

[adrianww]

Originally Posted by Jules

Exactly.

I don't get how it gets to become more complicated than that.

How may different positions on the subject can there be?

...

Er.. I think that covers it...

I think you left out:

What happens if you null-test them?

Which is usually followed by:

Ha! Null tests are a load of cobblers!
No they're not, they're science!!
Yes they are!
No they're not!
(repeat ad nauseam until childish name-calling sets in).

Oh, and possibly with a side order of:

How do I connect this cable?

Or even:

What's a cable?



As for me, I do find this stuff interesting and tend to take the view that if someone says that they are hearing something, then they're hearing it. Exactly what they may be hearing (or whether they are, in fact, hearing something or just think they're hearing something) is a very different (and much more tricky) question.

[emilision]

True Jules, but unless we're getting into the subject of jazz-cables and electro-cables and so forth it's worth noting the science behind the matter.

Namely that the ideal cable is completely transparent...i.e. the same as if you sit the mic straight into the preamp.

Of course the ideal cable doesn't exist in the real world...however the shorter the cable the closer we may approach that ideal.

The resistivity of silver and copper (assuming good quality in both) is not all that dissimilar...most of which could be offset by the gauge of the cable...in theory, a silver cable will allow for thinner strands though, which should have less of an effect on high frequencies (which will help offset loss/length of cable)...

I'm no scientist, so I've done my best. There are other factors.


I disagree with your last point, there's enough nonsense in the world, let's have less of it.

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by emilision

...I disagree with your last point, there's enough nonsense in the world, let's have less of it.

Just between you and me, I have a suspicion that all six of Jules' points were intended as a mild form of irony to illustrate the absurdity of the "debate" going on here. Don't look now, but it might be time for a rethink if you've found yourself agreeing with the first five of them.

[emilision]

Originally Posted by DarkSky Media

Just between you and me, I have a suspicion that all six of Jules' points were intended as a mild form of irony to illustrate the absurdity of the "debate" going on here. Don't look now, but it might be time for a rethink if you've found yourself agreeing with the first five of them.

Agree wouldn't be the right word; couldn't care less perhaps (I mean that in a good way)...

That said, you can make silver cables cheaply enough, as I posted earlier.

...personally, I feel anyone who spends $150,000 on cables is sick and needs help. (Cardas Clear Beyond Speaker Cable Review ...this reminds me of the Rodin coil )

[drew]

Originally Posted by JSt0rm

Id be down for that but I wont release my name on a forum that is searchable by google.

And what exactly is so nefarious about being searchable by Google? I make a good living in small part by people being able to find and contact me via Google.

[adrianww]

Originally Posted by emilision

I disagree with your last point, there's enough nonsense in the world, let's have less of it.

And I disagree with that. There's nowhere near enough nonsense in the world. Rather there are far too many people who take themselves far too seriously, often leading them to denigrate others for no good reason. There also seems to be a growing tendency for people to take little, unimportant things much too seriously, while losing sight of life's bigger (and much more important) picture.

Threads like this one (and various others that we've all seen here on GS before) regularly provide an effective illustration of both of these phenomena.

[Marogru]

In One of the Polish "Pro Audio" blogs there was a review of a power cable that improves sound.
The guy was telling that after connecting it he heard new spaces in the recordings and that it was an amazing experience.

At the end some one wrote a comment:
"And what about that cable that is in the wall?"

That would summarize this debate.

That GOLDEN cable goes straight to a $1 pcb on each side.

[emilision]

Originally Posted by adrianww

And I disagree with that. There's nowhere near enough nonsense in the world. Rather there are far too many people who take themselves far too seriously, often leading them to denigrate others for no good reason. There also seems to be a growing tendency for people to take little, unimportant things much too seriously, while losing sight of life's bigger (and much more important) picture.

Threads like this one (and various others that we've all seen here on GS before) regularly provide an effective illustration of both of these phenomena.

Cable threads are always the best.