Pensado's Place guest comments on "Gold" cables

[Louis_Diaz]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

My apologies. Your name is similar to the other poster's.

Are you the one that said that gold wires sounded more punchy ?

[jrhager84]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

My apologies. Your name is similar to the other poster's.

No worries. I was like 'Whaaaaaaaa?'

Don't leave, mike! I know most of us value your opinions. ;-)

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

I'm not going to slag the guys work but really, just cause he uses them doesn't mean I have to wholeheartedly agree with it and not voice my opinion on the matter in forum that is been designated to do just that.

How is this NOT "slagging" the guys work?

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

Personally, I don't buy the cable myth and when I hear somebody make claims about gold cabling or million dollar audiophile lightbulbs for your cars headlights I tend to value their opinions less.

You could have said:

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

Personally, I don't buy the cable myth

Wouldn't that have sufficed?

Personally, I don't have an issue with what you said but when I hear somebody say what you said I tend to value their opinions less.

[emilision]

...a gold mic cable probably will affect the sound in a way that's noticeable though, considering you've such a low signal level at that stage, and more than likely a significant length of cable involved...if anything I'd imagine it would more colour the sound though.

I would say the same thing about a guitar cable...and apparently coiled cables do roll off the highs in a particular way...never bothered to try one myself though...I like the Fender tweed ones, they tend to keep their shape and are easy to detangle.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Louis_Diaz

Are you the one that said that gold wires sounded more punchy ?

I've never tested Gold wires so no.

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

How is this NOT "slagging" the guys work?



You could have said:



Wouldn't that have sufficed?

Personally, I don't have an issue with what you said but when I hear somebody say what you said I tend to value their opinions less.

Noted. I could have worded the same thing you just said to me differently and have avoided the whole thing altogether.

My apologies everybody, I was not aware that Mike himself was even on this thread but gather that my opinion would effect him about as much as his opinion on this particular matter would effect mine.

[emilision]

I tried silver speaker cables (in fact I still use them), and they did make a slight "difference"...but that difference was more than likely just a touch of gain, that I think I might have perceived as "detail"...I certainly wouldn't buy them again, but they were reasonable and they look nicer, so I kept them.

But even a different gauge cable makes a slight difference...but really still, it's all minutiae.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

Noted. I could have worded the same thing you just said to me differently and have avoided the whole thing altogether.

My apologies everybody.

Awesome!!!!

All the best.

kenny

[Yuri Kogan]

Originally Posted by TAFKAT

You managed to get 30 Professional engineers in Melbourne to congregate at the studio to listen to you and your engineer(s) shootout cables , really ?

Surely you have documented it via some electronic media , that would have been the largest congregation of professional engineers in Melbourne (assembling at a rival studio ) in history , No ?

Got any names of those that attended ?

Not doubting , just interested that something like that went down in my home town and I haven't heard a peep about it ?

Hi Vin
Ys there are plenty of engineers here in Melbourne. My short list for job applicationswas originally over 50. Thats out of many more. Plus the studio is big enough for double that number.

[Bassmankr]

A few key points . . .

Pensado's Place does it's share of marketing (to the point I can't stand to watch it at times) and regardless of what famous person is on it and any recomendation they or Pensado happen to make, it needs to be scrutinized to see if there is a financial incentive behind it. It's a fact we have to live with that some big names get paid to push products or have their own financial stake in companies that sell audio products. I have no idea if Shipley has those motives but I would not take his or anyone else's words as gospel without research and my own testing however members should show respect to all other members regardless of who they are period.

GOLD . . . Gold sells for over $1500 an ounce. You are not going to see actual solid gold conductor cable. I'm not even aware that you can get ANY gold plated audio cable with proper insulation on it. What is available is gold electroplated copper wire used in the jewelry industry and some people trying to make a buck sticking that jewelry wire in teflon tubes for insulation and then they try and sell it as stereo component interconnect wire (who knows what they are using for sheilding). Electroplating puts an extremely thin layer of the expensive metal over the common metal. You can easily find gold electroplated audio connectors. The purpose of which is ONLY for corrosion control. Common usage of a guitar or mic cable would quickly wear thru the thin gold electroplating and thus it's really not suited for those type of cables. We tend to see gold plating with EDAC/ELCO connectors in the studio. This is a good purpose for gold plating in that BOTH the male and female connection parts are of the same type of metal so no electrolysis takes place and that these connections are not constantly being plugged/unplugged. When you team up ANY connectors not of the same metal then corrosion happens so if you use a gold electroplated connector make sure what it plugs into is gold electroplated too or you just wasted money and defeated the the anti-corrosion purpose. Whether Shipley was talking about some cable that just had gold electroplated connectors or used gold electroplated copper jewelry wire in a hand assembled cable I've not seen any specific details about it yet in this thread.

SILVER . . . There is available pure silver conductor wire with proper insulation as well as silver coated copper. It's not cheap and even the plated stuff goes for some money. If you live in the USA and want to play around with some to do your own testing I've got some extra Belden #83333E available. It's three 24 gauge stranded silver coated copper conductors with teflon insulation surrounded by a silver coated copper braid sheilding with an outer teflon wrap insulator. Military grade and spec, easy to google to see what it is. Although it's got the extra conductor you could easily make up a balanced cable or twist together or only use one conductor to make up an instrument cable with it for testing. The stuff sells for $6 a foot online but I'll sell it for $2 a foot just PM me (no I'm not a dealer). So if you wanted to do your own testing you could make up a 10' cable for $20 and use your own ears instead of risking more money. Just try to do a blind test with some friends to get rid of expectation bias. Where silver is probably the most practical in the studio would be as internal wiring in outboard and mixers you are updating.

COPPER . . . All the big name brands offer some type of low capacitance foil sheilded install cable for the studio at very reasonable cost. If it carries digital signal then it has to be the AES/EBU standard of 110 ohms impedance. For analog signal anything in the 100 ohm to 150 ohm impedance range is going to be fine. When I'm talking about low capacitance studio install wiring it's in the 8pF/ft (per foot) to 15pF/ft range. If a wire is speced as pF/m (per meter) than just divide it by 3 to get a quick rough conversion to "per foot" for apple to apple comparisons. As for mic or instrument cable used in the live room to go to your install cabled wall or floor plate connection boxes chances are foil sheilded cable will be too stiff and not take the abuse. This is where a SHORT cable that's flexible made to take the abuse comes in play. Chances are it will have a higher capacitance spec and have less sheilding (braided or spiral).

Using any exotic cables . . . If you go that route you really have to look at the WHOLE length of the analog signal chain cabling. How much of it is of that exotic material (which sections?) as well as what signal level each section of the cable is at? For most it's not practical having the mic pre / converter in the live room so most of the analog cable run will be of your install cable. How much good will it be to have a 10 foot exotic cable over a regular 10 foot low capacitance copper cable all connected to 50 feet of install cable before the analog signal gets to the converters? Where using an exotic may make the most sense is when you use a short length of it between a guitar and floor DI box in the live room. The debate really happens with the load that short section of cable puts on the guitar before it's signal gets boosted at the DI as load equates to tonal change. When looking at cable you have to look at the whole run of it and that's why I really consider the tangent subject of exotic power cable to be snake oil as no one looks at huge length of solid copper 12 / 14 gauge wire in the walls it's connected to.

[shipshape]

""I tried silver speaker cables (in fact I still use them), and they did make a slight "difference"...but that difference was more than likely just a touch of gain, that I think I might have perceived as "detail"...I certainly wouldn't buy them again, but they were reasonable and they look nicer, so I kept them.

But even a different gauge cable makes a slight difference...but really still, it's all minutiae.""


Well that's good , minutiae all adds up over a bunch of tracks as I'm sure you can imagine. That ends up being a big difference in the end. To Me.
Mike Shipley

[shipshape]

There is only 3 percent gold in the cables , the rest is silver , the reel of cable used was found in Europe by Danny , to meet his requirements , I have nothing to gain financially by this or anything else I use.
Mike Shipley

[emilision]

Originally Posted by shipshape

I tried silver speaker cables (in fact I still use them), and they did make a slight "difference"...but that difference was more than likely just a touch of gain, that I think I might have perceived as "detail"...I certainly wouldn't buy them again, but they were reasonable and they look nicer, so I kept them.

But even a different gauge cable makes a slight difference...but really still, it's all minutiae.

Well that's good , minutiae all adds up over a bunch of tracks as I'm sure you can imagine. That ends up being a big difference in the end. To Me.
Mike Shipley

True. And the level of your signal chain (and particularly that a lot of that equipment is further upgraded and modified) is going to make small differences more apparent...

[mindkontrolle]

Originally Posted by shipshape

I tried silver speaker cables (in fact I still use them), and they did make a slight "difference"...but that difference was more than likely just a touch of gain, that I think I might have perceived as "detail"...I certainly wouldn't buy them again, but they were reasonable and they look nicer, so I kept them.

But even a different gauge cable makes a slight difference...but really still, it's all minutiae.

Well that's good , minutiae all adds up over a bunch of tracks as I'm sure you can imagine. That ends up being a big difference in the end. To Me.
Mike Shipley

Hi Mike. So just to be clear, these are custom cables were the entire wire is made out of gold threads? What is the shielding? There's no such thing on the market according to my own search. I enjoyed the DP show very much. 'Paper Airplane' is just out-of-this-world. Incredible. How many slutz here have come close to that in the real world?

[mindkontrolle]

Originally Posted by shipshape

There is only 3 percent gold in the cables , the rest is silver , the reel of cable used was found in Europe by Danny , to meet his requirements , I have nothing to gain financially by this or anything else I use.
Mike Shipley

OK I see. Gold-Silver alloy.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by shipshape

I have nothing to gain financially by this or anything else I use.
Mike Shipley

I think it's pretty silly for this even to be questioned.

You have to remember (as most of us here battle against this daily), most people on this forum can't afford all the toys that we want. So it's basic survival to want to believe that most of it is unnecessary.

[TAFKAT]

Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan

Hi Vin
Ys there are plenty of engineers here in Melbourne. My short list for job applicationswas originally over 50. Thats out of many more. Plus the studio is big enough for double that number.

Hey Yuri,

I didn't ask about how many applications you received Mate, or whether the studio would accommodate the assembly, only whether you had 30 in the room at the same time when doing the shoot out.

If you did, you should have documented it , that was my point.. :-)

Anyhoo,

Back to the main event.

[mindkontrolle]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

most people on this forum can't afford all the toys that we want. So it's basic survival to want to believe that most of it is unnecessary.

The truth. This here is the only bias surrounding this nonsense smear campaign. If they could they surely would...

[shipshape]

Tafkat I'm Australian and from
Melbourne , I've just gotten back from a month there, i know all about sheep and barbies , all the best
Mike Shipley

[sameal]

man! that dr. who series is fargin' right on!


ooops, wrong forum.

[emilision]

This is interesting for those who have time to waste and/or like to get their hands dirty:

Make Your Own Silver Audio Cables

[toneguru]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I think it's pretty silly for this even to be questioned.

You have to remember (as most of us here battle against this daily), most people on this forum can't afford all the toys that we want. So it's basic survival to want to believe that most of it is unnecessary.

Very enlightening statement Kenny. I have never heard it put so concisely.

Perhaps the same could be said for people in the biz (or on GS) with tin ears.

Anyway, I have worked with enough inferior cable in the past to believe a guy like Mike when he says he found some cable that he really likes.

What is astonishing is not that one cable would sound better than another, but the emotional and condescending responses such a simple statement brings on a thread like this.

- Carry on

[Joe Haze]

I find this "cable" thing interesting, but this forum is creepy.. People really do hang on every word people say on Pensado's Place. I am going to wire my place with coat hangers and track a project..lol

[Yuri Kogan]

Originally Posted by TAFKAT

Hey Yuri,

I didn't ask about how many applications you received Mate, or whether the studio would accommodate the assembly, only whether you had 30 in the room at the same time when doing the shoot out.

If you did, you should have documented it , that was my point.. :-)

Anyhoo,

Back to the main event.

I will check if I still have the files. It was done to determine what to buy for the studio. A while back. You are welcome to borrow the drive if i find it.

[TAFKAT]

Originally Posted by shipshape

Tafkat I'm Australian and from
Melbourne , I've just gotten back from a month there, i know all about sheep and barbies , all the best
Mike Shipley

Cheers Mike,

Just trying to take the edge off some of the other banter with some humor :-)

Try not to get too wound up Mate , your work speaks for itself.

BTW - You can call me Vin , I don't hide under behind the online alias like some others here..

Allow me to back away slowly now...

[shipshape]

•

[chip mcdonald]

I'd like to point out....

Everyone is assuming perfect conditions here for both a "gold" cable and a "copper" cable.

1) you're not talking about solid-core wire;
2) you're not talking about lab-tested purity, either.


I'd suggest that the garden variety copper-based cable probably has a wider margin of error regarding the consistency and purity of it's makeup, and in turn someone making a "silver" cable is probably more on the job about offering a "regulated" material.

Same for construction. I've seen guitar cables split open where the wire is almost black from corrosion; that's not limited to just what is visible, but the surface of every strand. What is the ratio of the surface of each threaded wire to it's cross section?

In which case, again, I'd hope an expensive cable would be both more air tight, as well as perhaps less prone to the weave being mechanically distorted.

Which leads me to throw out some fun speculation, like "an uncoiled stranded cable will sound better than a coiled one, because there is less chance of the weave of the strands shorting itself across the surface of another strand". Or "once a cable has been coiled, it won't sound the same again". Or "a non-shrink-wrapped connector cable is more likely to sound bad because it allows air to seep into the copper".

The Allison Kraus cd sounds fantastic, I have no reason to doubt Mr. Shipley's observations.

[TAFKAT]

Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan

I will check if I still have the files. It was done to determine what to buy for the studio. A while back. You are welcome to borrow the drive if i find it.

What files Mate ?

Do you mean listening back to some files that you recorded using different cables ?

You've lost me , Sorry :-(

Either way, its cool , unless you have it documented with what cables / who heard what, per cable, etc, its not much use to me. If its subtle I'd have no idea what to even listen for , if its a dramatic difference then the variables would need to be weighed. Also , without a blind test, I wouldn't see the point to be honest.

After saying all that , what cables did you end up going with and why ?

That would be of some interest to some .

[totalgear]

These types of debates can be solved by answering the simple following question :

What color is the best one?

[toneguru]

For those who take their cable seriously or are just curious...

Cardas Clear Beyond Speaker Cable Review