Why do I still come here?

[JSt0rm]

its a tough life.

[Bonkks]

Welcome to the world of Internet forums, this is pretty standard behavior.

[atma]

Originally Posted by robkramble

This website has filled my head with nonsense and noise, and I honestly hope there will come a day when I can approach music in a less by-the-numbers and dreadfully soulless way than has been imparted on me from countless visits to this forum.

how can you honestly blame a web forum for your own shortcomings in your art? that's kind of absurd.

[lowkey]

i agree that this forum does seem to be getting more stupid threads more often...

[Alekto]

Yes. But how can I sound like Skrillex?

[Phil_The_Rodent]

I'll reinforce your Rainer Maria Rilke with a passage I read some years back on the net and saved it to look back on from time to time. It was saved on Mark Boyle's Website here: Mark Boyle's Journey

NOTHING IS MORE RADICAL THAN THE FACTS
(part of a lecture first given at Newcastle University 1972)

'A rock singer I knew once told me he had been writing poems on a Greek island that were so esoteric that no one would ever understand them but himself. And then one day he had decided that it was absurd, in the mid 1960's, that he should be doing anything so purpose-less, socially. And he decided to write for the people. And he did. He wrote songs that were banal and stupid.

This is one of the places where elitism and populism meet. There is a certain kind of elitist populist who believes that in order to write for the people you have to write songs that are stupid. I believe that if you're going "to work for the people" in this or any other field you have to work to the highest standard you are capable of. If the people do you the honor of being interested, then you have to take the greatest care of all, because it is so easy to assume that public approval is the final arbiter, when in fact the only arbiter of a work of art is the artist or the group of artists involved. Whatever the field he chooses, whether it's Sound of Visual or Tactile or Verbal, he must explore his chosen area to the maximum of his potential. It could be colour, or mass, or proportion, that he was dealing with. It might be light or representation or fantasy. It might be concepts or mathematical form, or the mechanics of art production, distribution and exchange. Whatever his chosen area, he must put aside everything else in his determination to explore it. He has to immerse himself totally. He has to realise that working for the people in this way he has to forget about working for the people. He has to forget about doing anyone any good. The only thing he has to do is to pursue his own goal determinedly, savagely, relentlessly on and on and on. There is no happy ending. He never gets there. He goes on and on and on. But sometimes instead of relentless pursing his course the artist listens too the managers and the dealers who say, this is the next thing that's going to be big and the public, or such and such is coming back, or to the critics and promoters, who are almost always writing about themselves anyway, trying to give themselves the ultimate puff, or to the politicians and social commentators and moral rearmers who to a man know what the public needs, what the public wants, what is good for the public. Then you get the fashion parade. The perfectly modulated and marketable personalised response of the artist to the current fad. The annual exhibition of beautifully calculated developments, or always identifiable variations on the artist's trade mark.

Down through the centuries, the people have permitted certain individuals to be free from productive labour in order to explore, almost as their representatives, certain areas of sensibility. If these "representatives" fail to explore their area to the limits of their potential, or report back, not what they actually found, but what they or their managers calculate will go down well with the public, or what they think it is good for the public to hear, and if they imagine that they or anybody else is capable of deciding what it is good for the people to hear, then they are not representatives of the people but parasites, not working for the people, but exploiting them.'

[CfNorENa]

Originally Posted by atma

how can you honestly blame a web forum for your own shortcomings in your art? that's kind of absurd.

+1.

I agree with a lot of the OP's sentiment, but I just don't think gearslutz.com is the place to find that sort of inspiration. It's a great place to ask technical questions about gear, and to canvas opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of this or that machine (and to share knowledge and opinions gained, ideally, from first-hand experience). It's also just a fun place to "talk shop." And NOT to be taken too seriously (how one can allow oneself to get dragged into long and desultory arguments here is just beyond me)...

[Rogue Ai]

Originally Posted by Alekto

Yes. But how can I sound like Skrillex?

[Alekto]

Does it have the WUBWUBWUBWUB preset?

[Rogue Ai]

Most likely.

[Rust Creep]

Its what you make it. I dont see GS the same as you

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Jamon]

To be fair, should a forum called "gear slutz" really be for what you describe? It also seems to have been started for engineers, not artists.

Maybe someone knows of a place more like you want? If so please share.

[djmukilteo]

Originally Posted by robkramble

I started coming here because I hoped to find a place where people who shared my passion for music could talk to each other and help each other blossom into creative, happy artists. The more I come here, the more I see this place as a graveyard for creativity and joy.

The homogenization of thought and the impulsive nature that permeate this forum have created a legion of teenage "producers" fixated with analog synthesizers, multiband compressors, or any other tool they believe will help them to achieve hollow fame by creating "of-the-moment" trendy tunes with no soul or personality whatsoever. Artistry, personality and the guiding principles behind their work take a backseat to big talk and "number games" of frequencies and compression ratios.

Listening to artists I love and admire for their ingenuity, it seems they always have such simple, almost naive explanations for how they approach their craft and why they do what they do. They live in wonderment and let music flow from their soul, that crucial instrument to which the brain is a mere servant.

Reading Rainer Maria Rilke's "Letters to a Young Poet," I stumbled upon one of the most important lessons I think I'll learn as an artist, and one that hopefully hasn't hit me too late.

"You ask whether your verses are any good. You ask me. You have asked others before this. You send them to magazines. You compare them with other poems, and you are upset when certain editors reject your work. Now (since you have said you want my advice) I beg you to stop doing that sort of thing. You are looking outside, and that is what you should most avoid right now.

No one can advise or help you--no one. There is only one thing you should do. Go into yourself. Find out the reason that commands you to write; see whether it has spread its roots into the very depths of your heart; confess to yourself whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write. This most of all: ask yourself in the most silent hour of your night: must I write? Dig into yourself for a deep answer. And if this answer rings out in assent, if you meet this question with a strong, simple 'I must,' then build your life in accordance with this necessity..."

This website has filled my head with nonsense and noise, and I honestly hope there will come a day when I can approach music in a less by-the-numbers and dreadfully soulless way than has been imparted on me from countless visits to this forum.

I hope the same day can come for you when you can create without a mind tethered to the negative impulses the age of the internet has placed in your brain and let out through your hands when you work.

Spot on....[rant on]
Welcome to the mindless button pushing, computer generated music of the modern world I guess. I'm bored so I come here to be entertained.
This merry go round has no soul left...it is void of artistic value...but then it is Gearslutz after all so the kids have purchased their latest game software and their Google search on how to actually "beat the game" and win more points and levels brings them here. It's all just another realm of games...relegated to the infinite nonsense of algorithms, bits, controller knobs and ratio/parameter settings.
What's the latest "plugin" used by [fill in name here]. What company has "released" another flashing button box. Just the word "plugin" should be a clue.
It's not related to music....[rant off]

[danny.]

Originally Posted by Phil_The_Rodent

I'll reinforce your Rainer Maria Rilke with a passage I read some years back on the net and saved it to look back on from time to time. It was saved on Mark Boyle's Website here: Mark Boyle's Journey

NOTHING IS MORE RADICAL THAN THE FACTS
(part of a lecture first given at Newcastle University 1972)

'A rock singer I knew once told me he had been writing poems on a Greek island that were so esoteric that no one would ever understand them but himself. And then one day he had decided that it was absurd, in the mid 1960's, that he should be doing anything so purpose-less, socially. And he decided to write for the people. And he did. He wrote songs that were banal and stupid.

This is one of the places where elitism and populism meet. There is a certain kind of elitist populist who believes that in order to write for the people you have to write songs that are stupid. I believe that if you're going "to work for the people" in this or any other field you have to work to the highest standard you are capable of. If the people do you the honor of being interested, then you have to take the greatest care of all, because it is so easy to assume that public approval is the final arbiter, when in fact the only arbiter of a work of art is the artist or the group of artists involved. Whatever the field he chooses, whether it's Sound of Visual or Tactile or Verbal, he must explore his chosen area to the maximum of his potential. It could be colour, or mass, or proportion, that he was dealing with. It might be light or representation or fantasy. It might be concepts or mathematical form, or the mechanics of art production, distribution and exchange. Whatever his chosen area, he must put aside everything else in his determination to explore it. He has to immerse himself totally. He has to realise that working for the people in this way he has to forget about working for the people. He has to forget about doing anyone any good. The only thing he has to do is to pursue his own goal determinedly, savagely, relentlessly on and on and on. There is no happy ending. He never gets there. He goes on and on and on. But sometimes instead of relentless pursing his course the artist listens too the managers and the dealers who say, this is the next thing that's going to be big and the public, or such and such is coming back, or to the critics and promoters, who are almost always writing about themselves anyway, trying to give themselves the ultimate puff, or to the politicians and social commentators and moral rearmers who to a man know what the public needs, what the public wants, what is good for the public. Then you get the fashion parade. The perfectly modulated and marketable personalised response of the artist to the current fad. The annual exhibition of beautifully calculated developments, or always identifiable variations on the artist's trade mark.

Down through the centuries, the people have permitted certain individuals to be free from productive labour in order to explore, almost as their representatives, certain areas of sensibility. If these "representatives" fail to explore their area to the limits of their potential, or report back, not what they actually found, but what they or their managers calculate will go down well with the public, or what they think it is good for the public to hear, and if they imagine that they or anybody else is capable of deciding what it is good for the people to hear, then they are not representatives of the people but parasites, not working for the people, but exploiting them.'

Thanks for sharing. I needed that.

[Franc]

Listening to artists I love and admire for their ingenuity, it seems they always have such simple, almost naive explanations for how they approach their craft and why they do what they do. They live in wonderment and let music flow from their soul, that crucial instrument to which the brain is a mere servant.

?? WTF? A lot of the better people out there spend a lot of hard work creating music. I am not talking about just making sure the studio mix is good. Some people are just incredibly talented but the majority just work harder and they are smarter than the rest.

Watch the movie Amadeus, which is largely fiction. You will see how Salerni is frustrated because Mozart was like a human music dictation machine that created incredible music. Bowie once said something like the cruelist trick or condition was being a mediocre artist.

This web site helps us get technical ideas and suggestions, talk about gear and to shoot the breeze. Sorry bro - we did not steal your creative mojo.

I suggest you turn off the Internet and go write some songs. If you run across a site where people share ideas of creating music than let us know. I generally find that most people do not go into a lot of detail how they create their music. It is trade secrets mate.

...help each other blossom into creative, happy artists...

Many great artists were not and are not "happy" artists or people. The great ones often die broke, alcoholic, drugs, suicide or just unhappy.

[fooloof]

TL;DR

[Diametro]

Originally Posted by CfNorENa

+1.

I agree with a lot of the OP's sentiment, but I just don't think gearslutz.com is the place to find that sort of inspiration. It's a great place to ask technical questions about gear, and to canvas opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of this or that machine (and to share knowledge and opinions gained, ideally, from first-hand experience). It's also just a fun place to "talk shop." And NOT to be taken too seriously (how one can allow oneself to get dragged into long and desultory arguments here is just beyond me)...

+1

[Reptil]

I can offer you three quick thoughts:
Human beings are capable of unspeakable terrible and equally beautiful acts. Music does normally fall in the latter category. Otherwise I wouldn't be here and write this.

Read between the lines. Just like in music's empty passage between notes, there's a yearning for some as yet unknown thing, mostly unattainable; our practical needs, the search for the holy grail, in a physical object made with a purpose, by someone else's crafty hands, reflects this yearning. The end of consumerism is dawning. Can you feel it?

You get out what you put in. One year? What's one year? If it doesn't work, try harder, the end result on every momentary "snapshot" is a cumulation of collective energy, including your own. If it's indeed banal, then do something about it. Be a rock in the sea. No matter what you do.

[Dubtek71]

Originally Posted by robkramble

I started coming here because I hoped to find a place where people who shared my passion for music could talk to each other and help each other blossom into creative, happy artists. The more I come here, the more I see this place as a graveyard for creativity and joy.

The homogenization of thought and the impulsive nature that permeate this forum have created a legion of teenage "producers" fixated with analog synthesizers, multiband compressors, or any other tool they believe will help them to achieve hollow fame by creating "of-the-moment" trendy tunes with no soul or personality whatsoever. Artistry, personality and the guiding principles behind their work take a backseat to big talk and "number games" of frequencies and compression ratios.

Listening to artists I love and admire for their ingenuity, it seems they always have such simple, almost naive explanations for how they approach their craft and why they do what they do. They live in wonderment and let music flow from their soul, that crucial instrument to which the brain is a mere servant.

Reading Rainer Maria Rilke's "Letters to a Young Poet," I stumbled upon one of the most important lessons I think I'll learn as an artist, and one that hopefully hasn't hit me too late.

"You ask whether your verses are any good. You ask me. You have asked others before this. You send them to magazines. You compare them with other poems, and you are upset when certain editors reject your work. Now (since you have said you want my advice) I beg you to stop doing that sort of thing. You are looking outside, and that is what you should most avoid right now.

No one can advise or help you--no one. There is only one thing you should do. Go into yourself. Find out the reason that commands you to write; see whether it has spread its roots into the very depths of your heart; confess to yourself whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write. This most of all: ask yourself in the most silent hour of your night: must I write? Dig into yourself for a deep answer. And if this answer rings out in assent, if you meet this question with a strong, simple 'I must,' then build your life in accordance with this necessity..."

This website has filled my head with nonsense and noise, and I honestly hope there will come a day when I can approach music in a less by-the-numbers and dreadfully soulless way than has been imparted on me from countless visits to this forum.

I hope the same day can come for you when you can create without a mind tethered to the negative impulses the age of the internet has placed in your brain and let out through your hands when you work.

Personally I come here because there is a lot to learn from others and sometimes I am able to help some others out. Also people of community that I belong to are here also. I am a techno nerd at the end of the day. My synth knowledge cant hold a candle to some of the people round here. I really don't care about digital vs analog synths, what filter chip is in this synth or that, speculating about new gear or I want to sound like ____ , what synth should I buy and so it goes... blah blah blah. I would use a garbage can and a ps3 if I thought it would make a good techno track.
I can say I do appreciate some of our regular members contributions. People who really do know the ins and outs of gear on a completely other level that I will never get to. Those people can be really helpful. I do sometimes get tired of the endless noise and a few months ago I even took some steps to create a niche where that noise wouldn't be present...
This place can be a little too technical and snobby at times I think you need to find value in what is useful to you and just forget and ignore the rest.

[SMARTGUY]

I'm not one to rain on someone's feelings, but I thought this was GEARslutz not TEARslutz. Dude, we all make music in some capacity but this is a place where we can get to the technical aspects of recording. As plastic as it may be, this is a place where we ask each other how did so and so do this or recorded that. I know things here can get a little muddy but take what you can from here and apply it to your endeavor. Yes it can get preachy and there are many brands and equipment that seem to be the favor here but it is what it is. I love it because where ever there is good, there is bad. So I take what I can use, leave some for others to use, log off and go apply what I've learned AND MAKE MUSIC.
Respect to all my fellow GEARslutz...

[Diametro]

"Tearslutz" ... Classic ...

[Elvis Gotta Gun]

Originally Posted by SMARTGUY

... I thought this was GEARslutz not TEARslutz.

lol.

Yeah, this forum is actually more known for the exact thing the OP has propagated in this thread for the millionth time; Bitter rants about younger, 'soulless' yet successful producers who don't use teh vintage analogz.

Threads about compression ratios are more exciting.

[Teknobeam]

Lol !..Don't over think why you come here...you come here because "others" have zero appreciation for the stuff you love..So...something to identify with?...But now you want to try to somehow suggest that it should be a sacred experience devoid of the very things that make people human....."individuality and lack of harmony (no pun intended). But I mean....that would be kind of boring wouldn't it?....

[Dpro]

Hmm let me see, I come here to read about gear I might be interested and or use and possibly discuss said gear. Be it recommendations to use it or seeing what others have to say about it. After all this is GEARSLUTZ!

Sure there are productions discussions and sure people get into the whole Music Business aspect as well. Though in the end I am not coming here to get inspiration for the music I might write. Now tips on engineering can be useful. Even the best still want to hear about tricks that their compatriots have used.

Now does it get watered down by dumb questions and people asking typical internet stuff? Well Duh ya, welcome to the Internet of today. This is not the internet of the late 90's or earlier days of the this century.
What you whine about is rampant on all internet forums. Its not just here. Stupid questions and whatnot abound on the automotive forums as well. Trust me I know this. I have been a veteran of those places.

Oh and in closing once again this is Gearslutz! First and foremost audio production gear discussions. Not Inspire me to write inspirational music and flowers slutz.

Go out and hike in the woods, go the beach, dance in a field! Maybe you will get back what you have seemed to have lost, expecting to be inspired by a bunch of audio types. Who spend forever and day discussing what kinda of gear they use and on what types of music.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by robkramble

I started coming here because I hoped to find a place where people who shared my passion for music could talk to each other and help each other blossom into creative, happy artists.

Then you should probably go to a songwriting forum, or better, no forum at all, but a songwriter's lodge where you meet with people. You don't need a big forum but a small tightly-knit club.

I used to hang out with a few people who were making digital artwork. The best results were booked by small groups of people that would share their tricks and teach eachother how to achieve results, and criticized them without relentlessly sucking up for mutual likes and upvotes. Each month the group would produce a "pack" - a list of artworks that made the cut. If your stuff didn't make the cut, it was simply not good enough; better luck next time, but rather having a small pack with high quality work than a big one with lots of mediocre and crap stuff.

They also published their works on a bigger site for digital art, which contained "social" features - and which contains mostly crap. There was no editor, no gatekeeper, and criticism was nonexistent - "like" my stuff and I'll "like" yours and the world gains two pieces of rubbish. It didn't teach mediocre artists to become better, and it didn't force rubbish artists to learn.

Every scene means politics and drama to deal with, though.

The more I come here, the more I see this place as a graveyard for creativity and joy.

Hm, it's not that bleak. It's also a treasure trove of answers (though mostly answers you have to find via Google even though the forum search is pretty good).

The homogenization of thought and the impulsive nature that permeate this forum have created a legion of teenage "producers" fixated with analog synthesizers, multiband compressors, or any other tool they believe will help them to achieve hollow fame by creating "of-the-moment" trendy tunes with no soul or personality whatsoever.

I don't know if it has created that; I think the producers (the name doesn't need scare quotes - it's the most accurate term that describes what they do) are already starting out with the wrong mindset themselves.

So they're happily trucking along making stuff in FL, having not much idea of what they're doing, but having fun. Then someone on their forum tells them "FL is for scrubs and that for "professional" music you should use multiband compressors with all knobs set to eleven, and check out Gearslutz because that's where the -real- professionals hang out".

So they come here with the wrong mindset (e.g. that a device or plugin will automagically fix their problems that they most likely didn't really have in the first place) and we encourage that mindset because there are lots of people saying "well, the Waves XXX is really great" instead of saying "how about you focus on your songwriting and theory first because this is boring shit that doesn't even have a chord progression". Plus they dump the tool they know and love and are set back for 3 months while they try to take in all the new idiosyncrasies and warts and all because someone without a clue told them that it wasn't good.

Listening to artists I love and admire for their ingenuity, it seems they always have such simple, almost naive explanations for how they approach their craft and why they do what they do.

That could also be because they've got the luxury of having an engineer solve their difficult problems, and then the engineer can go fully anorak about frequencies and compression ratios in their spare time

Reading Rainer Maria Rilke's "Letters to a Young Poet," I stumbled upon one of the most important lessons I think I'll learn as an artist, and one that hopefully hasn't hit me too late.

That was beautiful and thank you for quoting it.

Eventually it comes down to what you have to say - what must be shouted from the tops of the roofs. If you have nothing to say, then of course, staring at or blaming the numbers is easier.

Originally Posted by djmukilteo

Spot on....[rant on]
Welcome to the mindless button pushing, computer generated music of the modern world I guess.

Did you find the time-travel wormhole yourself or were you inadvertently thrown through it?

Because that's exactly what I'd imagine a stonewashed-jeans rock fan of 1989 would say when he'd listen to acid the first time

(the sentiment of looking down on younger generations never changes, and people who went into making music because deadmau5 was cool are going to say exactly the same thing in 20 years time. But that's good - because if the younger generation's not pissing you off, they're doing something wrong.)

[Teknobeam]

robkramble...one other thought....never complain about what is...becasue what is ...is. However "is" and reality is always self regulating....If you feel something doesn't deserve to be "is" it's possible it will be "isn't" at some point. perhaps not...Everything beomes "isn't" at some point. But if teenage producers are cranking out hits on their IPOD's or some aspiring painter is smearing oil paint on a wall and tossing Warhol picture at it hoping a few will stick then what do you care? Everyone has to start somewhere....and some of those people evolve r...some become stock brokers.

[blizt]

I think you are mixing things. I learnt lots of useful tips in here. Of course there is junk threads too, but they are easy to spot. No way this can kill my creativity.

Get out of the internet for a month, travel somewhere you never been before, come back and write some music. That is what you might need.

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by robkramble

Reading Rainer Maria Rilke's "Letters to a Young Poet," I stumbled upon one of the most important lessons I think I'll learn as an artist, and one that hopefully hasn't hit me too late.

.

I don't think you have to worry about any of that. You have already asked all of the questions...But with that said..You don't have any shortage of idealism,, but I'm not knocking that..It's a desire to foster your own oriningalty(easier said than done). But this place (this forum) includes amny people . Someone that thinks a compression algorithm is a critical element in their music...and wants some advice will surely get the advice and from there at some point evaluate whether or not the changes were life changing,,,but some benefit was rendered...and none of this stuff is in a vacuum....the delivery or production of music (any genre) involves the technology of production techniques. But I do understand your point. People are going to discover on their own what really matters. And in the end... it's a blend of things...Sometimes the cart comes before the horse. I'll tell you this.. I have learned things that I didn't expect to learn here thanks to a seemingly dumb post. And I mean useful things. That's the neat thing about information...One man's garbage.........well...you know.

[blizt]

I think you are mixing things. I learnt lots of useful tips in here. Of course there is junk threads too, but they are easy to spot. No way this can kill my creativity.

Get out of the internet for a month, travel somewhere you never been before, come back and write some music. That is what you might need.