too many options...

[Dean Roddey]

Personally, I think that for the self recorder, it doesn't really matter. I think you should spend your time learning how to compose and record and not waste time on 'heroic mixing' on a song that no one is ever going to care about, probably even you. It's really backwards in my eyes the way most folks do it. Mostly because they don't try to learn how to write and arrange songs, they want to just post songs.

It's hard to sit down and really spend the time to work out how a song should be arranged and try to make it so. It's a lot easier to just start recording stuff and try to make it into something later. I think that's the self-recorder's form of fool's gold. Then you get lost in endless mixing decisions because none were made before mixing started, or few were made.

I say commit to things. Try to hear it in your head and make it so. Figure out ahead of time what is going to be important and what's secondary. Work out the lyric and melody and get a good vocal down from the very first, so that everything else can be done from the start to support it, instead of spending endless hours doing automation and wondering why things are interfering with the vocal. And so on.

I'm sure some folks will scoff at that in this day of data processing as a form of music making. But I think that ultimately it's the more productive way to do it, if you are a self recorder I mean. No one is waiting to hand you a million dollars for your song, so there's no need to put posting songs ahead of learning to write and arrange and record songs. Master those things and the mix shouldn't be a burden. Most decisions will have already been made and be manifest in the raw materials.

And the songs will probably be like real songs, as opposed to a bunch of stuff that was recorded and then massaged into song-like form. If you do what many good songwriters do, and start by creating something that you can sit down and sing with an acoustic guitar or piano and it works in that form, then your stuff will be a thousand times better ultimately, because you are starting with a song in mind, not just creating raw materials and trying to figure out how it works toegether. You can put it down in that form, and then build up the supporting structure around that, then remove the original starting tracks and put a vocal down against a perfectly prepared band playing your song.

Look on Youtube for some of those videos where they map out the years long process that someone like John Lennon would put into creating a song. That's why those songs are great, because he didn't just sit down and record something. The concentrated on creating a *song* first, and gave it time to evolve and become what it was going to become before he then showed the other guys and they began that final process of bringing it to life. If you are a self-recorder, you are kind of inherently a musician/songwriter, but most folks ignore the second bit way too much, and of course a lot of people ignore the first part as well.

Clearly doing multiple demos of a song over time is a great way to do it, if you have the patience. Each one can refine what came before, without getting precious about it. Just rough it in and use what you learned on each round to make the next one a bit better. That's also something that plenty of great songwriters/bands have done in the past. It's even more important for the self-recorder because you can't just sit there with a bunch of people and try things. But it's tough because your time is limited and you end up getting precious about stuff that's not really fully baked and will spend days trying to make into something instead of just starting over and using what you learned to do it better.

Partly that's because a lot of people really ARE just musicians and aren't songwriters, because they never really concentrate on that part of the craft. And their music reflects that. I've been as guilty as anyone on that front. When you have limited time to do it, you just want to sit down and record something, not sit there for weeks with an acoustic working out chord changes, dynamics, melody, and lyrics.. But that's generally how great *songs* are created, though you could create really good *music* without doing that I guess. There's nothing wrong with just playing around to find ideas that might inspire you to create a song, but if you don't then stop and create a real song, it just sounds like a bunch of ideas put together.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong...

[unitymusic]

Good insight! I agree with a lot of that, but knowing how a song should go doesn't mean you're capable of realizing it by yourself. Also, I wouldn't want to get stuck in the circle of thinking a song is the only, or most, acceptable form of music; I like [some] pop music, but I like experimental music too. For me the pinnacle is when those two things meet, with a bit of classical influence.

Though even if you take the time to come up with a good song and a good arrangement, the kind that should mix itself, it is still a far cry from a mix of that calibre. Something that goes above and beyond just capturing sound in an evironment, and transcends into some sort of epic presentation. Or maybe it just makes you think it was a good capture of sound in a time/place. I guess I'm confused by: is anything real in good productions these days?

I can make a more commercial sounding product messing around with garageband for 20min than I can by spending a few days recording acoustic instruments into pro tools.

Now that I think about it, you didn't answer any of my questions. But I appreciate the response all the same!

[Dean Roddey]

But that's the point of not getting obsessed about posting songs and work on creating songs. Obviously at first you will fall short. But instead of spending a week trying to hack that into something (which you will probably still be unsatisfied with) just so you can post something, just learn your lessons and try again. Consider it a demo and give it another shot, or go try another one and come back to this one again later.

Ultimately, it just seems to me if you are the writer and the performer that it makes no sense not to strive to make it sound like it should while doing it, as much as possible. Ultimately you ARE learning how to mix while doing it because you are learning how to fit things together.

I guess I'm confused by: is anything real in good productions these days?

In pop, probably not much, which I would argue make them not good productions to begin with. They are good data processing, but that's a whole other thing.

[unitymusic]

I record in an attic bedroom that is just hot as hell for 3/4 of the year, so I rarely am recording with mics for more than 10min at a time. After that I need to open the windows, turn on the fan; this year I'm avoiding the AC because it uses too much electricity. The first cd I made I recorded and mixed in three weeks running an extension cord from downstairs with only candle light because I blew the power out in the whole upstairs till an electricion could come out and fix it.

All in all, you are right. I guess I'm wondering just how much my environment is holding me back, or if it's actually my ability. I don't record and post my real songs, because I'm trying to learn how to record them right first, but I am getting anxious. I'm just starting attempting to record an album I've been planning since I was 19 (I just turned 27), I've made probably 5 or 6 attempts over the years but for my real songs I have this idea of how they should be that I can never achieve, though it has gotten closer. What I post is mostly practice.

It seems to me reverb is a huge part of a good recording, whether natural (preferable) or artificial. I'm stuck.

[Dean Roddey]

Yeh, I don't have any AC at all, so this time of year really isn't practical to record anything. I have to get the place cooled down in time to go to sleep.

[kafka]

Since I'm just a basement engineer, I just find a couple ways that something works for me, and let it go at that. I'm not trying to get a variety of soundscapes. I'm just trying to get my material down in a presentable way so that it sounds good. If all my mixes tend to sound similar because of it, I just chalk it up as 'style' and let it go at that.

[Timothy Lawler]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

I say commit to things. Try to hear it in your head and make it so.

Well said.

[T'Mershi Duween]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

There's nothing wrong with just playing around to find ideas that might inspire you to create a song, but if you don't then stop and create a real song, it just sounds like a bunch of ideas put together.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong...

Dean, not only are you not wrong, you've written one of the best posts I've ever read on Gearslutz.

Aspiring songwriters/producers should read and comprehend your words. Even old pros that might be too absorbed with the little details of elaborate productions could use a little "reminder" of what's really important in the art of recorded music.

Kudos and respect...

[sw0mgt]

I used to work like you, OP, but then the depression got too bad. My advice for you is to take what's not working, what you're currently doing, and take it further, to its extreme. Take your obsession with what's objectively "right," your focus on what you don't know, your pre-occupation with what sets you below the imagined elite, so far until your inner-psyche breaks, you fall on your knees and say, "Why, God, Why?" Then you can answer the question or change what you're doing. You might discover that you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing; that there's some passion locked away inside you that you forgot to take in hand towards your journey into darkness. That there just might be hope, happiness, fun, creativity and freedom available. The truth is you're a monkey-animal banging a piece of plastic. Do what makes the monkey-animal happy. You're going to die very soon. Don't spend your infinitely valuable life stressing over whether the 3dB EQ boost sounded better at 1.95kHz or 1.96kHz. Go with what lies inside, deeper than the surface.

[unitymusic]

Wow that's sinister. I guess there's really no point then.

I once had passion, then I realized if left unchecked it got in the way of me learning things. I like to learn things.

[sw0mgt]

Originally Posted by unitymusic

I once had passion, then I realized if left unchecked it got in the way of me learning things.

On the face of it, that seems backwards.

[unitymusic]

Originally Posted by sw0mgt

On the face of it, that seems backwards.

How so?

[Blitenz]

Less is more.