CharterOak = chinese OEM mics?

[Bastian]

...by that i don't mean to diss charteroak mics in any way... i mean even neumann is ordering capsules from china.

i just want to share what i found out.

first the charter oak SA538


and now the sm pro audio MC03 ($299)



a friend of mine who works for smpro took the pics of the MC03...he says that more than 50% of a batch mc03 mics that's getting send out to the dealers sounds like crap while the rest sounds pretty decent and maybe one out of ten is of actual high quality. the mic on the pic is one of the better ones from the batch, he also added a vintage telefunken tube and tweaked the electronics.

but i mean it's like playing the lottery...you could pay $299 and hit the "jackpot" with that one out of 10 good smpro mics...pay about $1500 for the charter oak(if they're really the same mic) and get a (hopefully) better preselection, a nice black finish on the body and a metal plate on the psu...or you could spend $3000 for 10 smpro mics and still have no winner.

just my 2 seashells

what do you guys think about that?

i think it would be interesting to hear the opinion of nathan(atlas pro audio) or any other charter oak dealer/user who came across more than few charter oak mics to hear something about the quality spread of the charter oak mics.
and even more important: ARE THEY EVEN THE SAME MICS?

[ajfarber]

I met the Charter Oak guy at AES. He's a jazz saxophonist who had studdied with Jackie McLean. That has nothing to do with anything, I just thought it gave him some credability. He told me the parts that come from China, are hand inspected and assembled here in Connecticut. Alot of the stuff made in china ( by 8-year olds in sweatshop conditions) is poor quality because the workers don't give a shit. They have to solder 106 "studemfung 802s" per hour and keep up the the quotas established. The costomer is often resposible for the quality control. SMpro audio must have inferior quality control but otherwise, it may share some basic parts with the Charter Oak, I don't know. The Charter Oak stuff looks and feels pretty high end in person.

BTW, does "Charter Oak" sound like a retirement community, or a golf course?

[Led]

A cemetery

[Vari-Mu]

Originally Posted by ajfarber

I met the Charter Oak guy at AES. He's a jazz saxophonist who had studdied with Jackie McLean. That has nothing to do with anything, I just thought it gave him some credability.

It gives him some credibility as a jazz saxophonist.

I'm not expressing any opinion on the mics because I've never heard them.

Cheers

Vari-Mu

[True North]

I have been a huge proponent for Charter Oak right from the moment one of my gear vendors reccomended giving the SA538 a try well over a year ago.

I still think they make outstanding mics and I was aware that some of their parts were made in China. All of the critical QC testing and assembly happens in the US.
I have also noticed that there are other mic companies who make mics that look even more similar than the SM pro, check out this;

http://www.bigmics.com/nav-page.html

All that being said, there have been many converts to this mic company in recent months. Regardless of where there parts are made they still make consistently great sounding microphones. Anyone interested should take the time to listen with their ears and they won't be dissapointed.

P.S. - Charter Oak reminds me of a retirement home or a golf course!!

[thenoiseflower]

I dont care for china parts or not, I have heard many great things about the SA538 and SA538B, and I trust that company in conneticut (with a reputible founder!) would be more accomodating to ANY issue that someone could run into, over.. say...any chinese manufactured GC mic.

BTW has anyone heard/ used the S600 stereo pair? I would love to hear these mics? maybe this should be a different trhead...

[thenoiseflower]

I dont care for china parts or not, I have heard many great things about the SA538 and SA538B, and I trust that company in conneticut (with a reputible founder!) would be more accomodating to ANY issue that someone could run into, over.. say...any chinese manufactured GC mic.

BTW has anyone heard/ used the S600 stereo pair? I would love to hear these mics? maybe this should be a different trhead...

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Bastian

...by that i don't mean to diss charteroak mics in any way... i mean even neumann is ordering capsules from china.

That's the first I've heard that Neumann is "ordering capsules from China." Could you provide some verification of this sttement?

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by Bastian

i think it would be interesting to hear the opinion of nathan(atlas pro audio) or any other charter oak dealer/user who came across more than few charter oak mics to hear something about the quality spread of the charter oak mics.

By quality spread I assume you are referring to the quality of one microphone to the next? If that's what you are asking, they are very consistent. The build quality, quality control, and customer service of CharterOak is A+. Even though much of it is parted from China, I'm told by the owner of the company that they are assembled and quality controlled here in the US. For the money, these microphones are excellent in every way IMO. I've never compared them to the brand you are referring to above, and nor am I ever likely to. But it doesn't sound like CharterOak is providing a 'stock' Chinese microphone. One clue to this is their ADAPT(tm) customizing system, where they can change various characteristics of the mic (frequency curve, amount of harmonic content). Mike Demming is so passionate in the actions of his company and his positive attitude about his mics and cares so much about making people happy that I don't see how they could be compared to a Shanghai assembly line piece.

[Berolzheimer]

I don't know much about the Charter Oak mics in particular, but the elctronics in side the mic & power supply can make a huge difference. I'd bet that what's inside the CO mic is quite different than the other one.
FWIW I know a guy who gets his ( hand picked ) capsules & mic bodies from China, puts in his own tube circuit, power supply & acoustic treatment, and the result is hands down one of the best mics I've ever used.

[PoorGlory]

For those interested, Charter Oak gets its name from the famous tree in CT (no longer still standing) that the town of Hartford's original charter was hidden in when the British rode into town during the revolutionary war. (Any history buffs feel free to correct me, its been a while since I've lived in CT) In fact, I think the (original) Charter Oak is what's on the back of the Connecticut quarter.

Back on track though, I haven't heard the mics but I can't wait.

[CT Yankee]

I noticed this string and I thought I would respond by repeating parts of my post from a similar string which was brought to our attention a few months ago, as well as address a couple of other things.

First things first. 100% of CharterOak microphones shipped to dealers and customers are perfect unless there is a malfunction. All malfunctions are covered by our lifetime guarantee including failed amplifier tubes and our service incidents are less than 15 in the nearly 300 microphones that we have built.

There are many things that probably set our products apart from the one pictured.

I'll just list a few that are important to our build quality and sound.

Most importantly, our products are warranted for life against manufacturing
defects. I don't know this companies warranty policy, but I would be very impressed if the manufacturer of the product shown in the image has that kind of confidence in their product.

Although our machined brass and steel parts, plating and circuit cards, as well as our cases and utility boxes which house our power supplies are from China and may give these products a similar look from a distance, our microphones are hand assembled using premium parts from all over the world right here where I am sitting, in our very small shop in Enfield, CT. Everything that is shipped here "rough assembled" as we like to call it, gets pulled apart, turned into a CharterOak, reassembled, listened to and tested one floor below where I am sitting right now.

I guess that I need to make the point that using Chinese cases and machining and doing careful and creative parts sourcing is what allows us to make a high quailty microphone at an affordable price.

And in terms of looks, find me a cheap Chinese microphone that looks like the CharterOak S600. We're not trying to reinvent the wheel here. Microphones tend to look like microphones unless you are doing something really acoustically innovative or you are marketing your products with their strange looks.

Our capsules are made in a custom shop in China under the strict supervision
of an American engineer who lives in China. Those capsules are QCd there and
then QCd here a second time after shipping. We believe that the quality of our capsules is of the highest order. The rings and backplates are precision milled from solid brass and the membranes are gold sputtered Mylar.

We have spent over a year on R&D on each model to ensure that we are creating a truly distinctive sound.

THESE ARE NOT IMITATIONS OF OLD MICROPHONE TYPES!!! We have spent a lot of time listening to capsules, head amp components and output transformers in order to create high quality, distinctive voices for the different Charteroak microphone types.

It is obvious, even in these low resolution photos on this string, that our
machining, plating, coating, and etching quality is much better than the product shown. If you look closely you will notice even a distinct difference in the cases. Our case is built with heavy duty, high quality hardware meant to last a lifetime. Notice the difference in the handle, locks, and corners. Our case probably outweighs the one pictured by 40% as the sides are even noticeably thicker, and on the subject of cosmetics, our coating and laser etching
is done here in Connecticut.

Obviously the head amp electronics, output transformer, and body resonance
all play into the timbre of the microphone.

In these departments we are second to none in our price range.

Our first microphones were shipped with custom wound transformers, then we
switched to Lundhal which are made in Sweden. These are very good sounding
but a little too large to easily meet our space requirements so now we use a
10:1 turns ratio transformer made by Cinemag in Canoga Park, California. It is a humbucking transformer with incredible
specs and sound.

We use only the highest quality Xicon, Mial, and Wema, polystyrene and
polypropylene capacitors in the audio path which is probably a big
difference between our products and the one pictured.

We use only hand selected and tested J/J Tesla and Ei gold pin amplifier
tubes which are made in the Slovak Republic and ensure total transparancy, low noise and great transient response.

We use only Teflon coated wire which is all perfectly braided by hand to
ensure detailed top end and proper rejection of noise. I bet if you open the other mic pictured, that you might find a mess. You never know.

All of these components were selected by ear, by me, over a long period of
auditioning components.

Our microphones are burned in for 7 days and closely listened to as well as
measured to ensure perfection before shipping.

All of these things add up to why you are hearing great things about our
products and why we are routinely beating mics priced five times as high in blindfold comparison tests.

If anyone has any serious or specific questions about our products, I can be reached at any of the numbers below or you can feel free to shoot
me an email. I promise that I will respond promptly.

I wonder who's CharterOak microphone that is in the picture. Do yourselves a favor. Listen to the microphones and make your choices rather than to be swayed by propaganda. Maybe you'll pick a CharterOak and enjoy a lifetime warranty and a fantastic, distinctive sound.

Thanks for your time,
MD

Michael Deming
CharterOak Acoustic Devices
47 Pearl St.
Enfield, CT. 06082
ph-8606989794
fax-8606989812
mobile-8606553328

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[Rogervandeberg]

Thanks for the extensive reply!

I live in holland, and have noticed one at my local dealer. I am still a student, so i have to make wise decisions about spending my little money, but got good news: my salesguy allows me to audition it in my studio next to some other competitors in the same price range (JZ-2, SE Gemini) in about a month or two. I heard only good things from this mic and i will be using my future mic for vox and acoustic guitar, so i am very curious!!

[bfovermars]

Strings!!!

[Berolzheimer]

Hi Michael,
I haven't yet had a chance to use your mics but the demos on your website sound beautiful.