Are you just like naturally talented and everything you touch in the studio turns to gold or are you like me a year and a half into it and you are sweating by the end of a track and even then it ends up in the trash cause it sucks.
Seriously, I have never been challenged so much then this music production and mixing thing, I remember doing my Psych essays were not this hard, damn that was a breeze compared to this......just when I think I have it down I'm like seriously depressed again after another session of useless shi%, and garbage WTF man!
Makes me wonder sometimes if maybe I just don't have it ya know, but then I am back at it, reading, learning and banging it out once again, with the soft whispers in the background telling me it's all good and this thing just takes time, ya need to stick with it.
Seriously though, it is a serious challenge man to bang out a track. I mean I refuse to use loops and I try to create it all from scratch......
What's the deal? I love it and I will never give up, however I want to know is producing something which comes easier with time?
Looneytune, you are not alone! I am an ungifted amateur but versed enough to realise that music production (and for me that starts with arrangement, even with the songwriting process) is a highly skilled trade like so many others that take years to master and that often begin with a good apprenticeship or education/training.
As Wikipedia will tell you, Frenchman Michel Lotito (Monsieur Mange-Tout) once ate an entire Cessna 140 aircraft, but it took him two years and of course it was devoured in lots of very small fragments. Yet in the end, he had in fact become an eater of aircraft (as well as bicycles, TVs and other stuff).
So it is, for me, with music production - a series of small advances and breakthroughs. I am pretty sure this would all happen much faster if I weren't doing it mostly alone by trial and error (i.e. without the benefit of that apprenticeship or training) but the truth is that none of us are in fact alone if we do our learning by listening carefully and trying out things learned from forums like this one, Sound on Sound, collaborating locally, and so on. One day, I may realise that I too became a bicycle eater!
I definitely believe in natural talent when it comes to production.
It's just as much a mathematical design as it is artistic expression, which is a very hard combination to come by naturally.
Then you have the experiential side of both, having been through enough to say something artistically, as well as having gone through enough productions to get a workflow that benefits you, as well as figure out the little tricks...
Then there's the money issue. Some will tell you all you need is a computer, which is somewhat true. All you need is a Wal-Mart bike to ride tour de France, but having that 8000 dollar Schwinn would be a way easier route.
Sadly, the Hardware route, while initially more gratifying, is blindingly hard to master in the long run (unless you're doing some simple stuff and not trying to mimic the features of a DAW), Regardless, the point is, you need alot of patience...
Then there is the application of any natural talent, and the grasping at opportunities, like theory lessons, and mixing seminars, masterclasses, labels etc...
And on top of all that, theres that huge confidence part that either lets you trust yourself, go 100% by the book, tell you whether you should add that part, or drop that part, how to run your career, etc etc...
It's one of the harder art forms, if not the hardest...
Anyway, I guess that doesn't really answer the question, yes, I feel everything I touch turns to gold. Whether my songs turn out good or bad is almost 100% up to how patient I was and whether I actually had an idea, or was bored. It's as simple as that for me.
And for the record, I don't think we should discourage people based off any natural ability, anyone willing to work THAT much harder should definitely do so, but at the same time, if you're trying to be a football player but you know damn well you can't play football, why not find a place where your natural abilities shine? Get in where you fit in type thing.
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Ambient House Meets Western Guitar, May 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma
so wait, this thread won't show me how to be skrillex?
Are you just like naturally talented and everything you touch in the studio turns to gold or are you like me a year and a half into it and you are sweating by the end of a track and even then it ends up in the trash cause it sucks.
Seriously, I have never been challenged so much then this music production and mixing thing, I remember doing my Psych essays were not this hard, damn that was a breeze compared to this......just when I think I have it down I'm like seriously depressed again after another session of useless shi%, and garbage WTF man!
Makes me wonder sometimes if maybe I just don't have it ya know, but then I am back at it, reading, learning and banging it out once again, with the soft whispers in the background telling me it's all good and this thing just takes time, ya need to stick with it.
Seriously though, it is a serious challenge man to bang out a track. I mean I refuse to use loops and I try to create it all from scratch......
What's the deal? I love it and I will never give up, however I want to know is producing something which comes easier with time?
You really just described to a T what it's like for me as well. I relate to every word you said! I know the frustration.....I have come to accept that i'm not a naturally talented musician, in fact I couuldn't stand anything that was related to playing/making music growing up, but 3 years ago that all changed. I started screwing around with FL studio and couldn't stop playing with it, now I use logic however.. I think my love for EDM fueled the passion. In any case, i will not quit, even if i'm not that talented. It makes me happy to learn at my pace and I don'y stress to much on where the destination is, it's the journey I love. I have learned so much and have really impressed myself to have gone from knowing nothing about music/production to what I know today. Yes, finishing a track is a real struggle for me as well, but again, I don't fight it and I try to not compare myself to others who are gifted, it wouldn't be fair. Keep doing what you love bro. Whether you're a good producer or not, if it makes you happy to sit and try to get better, that's all that matters..
There's a thread just like this in the Rap/HipHop section.
Someone posted this video in it;
I watched it yesterday. I decided to do what he suggested and forced myself to make a complete whether it is dope or wack. No internet, no cell phone, no TV. I locked myself in my room at 12 noon and came out at 8PM with this track (it's a HipHop beat).
I've been making beats for a little over a yr now just like you. I haven't made a complete beat like this since January... I am dead serious. Every time I start on a project it never gets finished so it gets tossed. I forced myself to fully arrange this complete beat and this I feel really accomplished even tho it's kind of wack, but we can only get better with time.
Watch the video and follow his advice. I'm going to buy a Moleskin notebook and do what he says (you'll know what I'm talking about after you watch it).
I'm going force myself to make at least 1 full beat a week.. whether it sucks or not.
Looneytune, you are not alone! I am an ungifted amateur but versed enough to realise that music production (and for me that starts with arrangement, even with the songwriting process) is a highly skilled trade like so many others that take years to master and that often begin with a good apprenticeship or education/training.
As Wikipedia will tell you, Frenchman Michel Lotito (Monsieur Mange-Tout) once ate an entire Cessna 140 aircraft, but it took him two years and of course it was devoured in lots of very small fragments. Yet in the end, he had in fact become an eater of aircraft (as well as bicycles, TVs and other stuff).
So it is, for me, with music production - a series of small advances and breakthroughs. I am pretty sure this would all happen much faster if I weren't doing it mostly alone by trial and error (i.e. without the benefit of that apprenticeship or training) but the truth is that none of us are in fact alone if we do our learning by listening carefully and trying out things learned from forums like this one, Sound on Sound, collaborating locally, and so on. One day, I may realise that I too became a bicycle eater!
Hey Suzie,
Thanks for the reply
Yeah It aint easy....
I do have moments where I can create some great stuff you know. I am friends with a trained musician who is into electronic music, and he comforts me when he even as a trained musician even struggles to lay down a track given he is as new to production as I am.
He is at another extreme, so gifted with music, chords anything you can imagine, even reads music but still considers it is a different world when trying to lay a track down.
Yeah I want to believe it takes time, and I would admit that If I was doing this full time with talented producers I would accomplish a lot more in less time that is for sure.
Hey thanks for all the replies peeps.
Here is the funny thing, people who hear my music love it, even folks who listen to this stuff on a regular basis love my stuff..
So maybe I am tough on myself and maybe expect to much in little time.
Thanks again...........
And I aint gonna give up that is for sure.......
Hey thanks for all the replies peeps.
Here is the funny thing, people who hear my music love it, even folks who listen to this stuff on a regular basis love my stuff..
So maybe I am tough on myself and maybe expect to much in little time.
Thanks again...........
And I aint gonna give up that is for sure.......
Honestly man, that techno track of yours if quite good imo. Listen to it and watch those kids dance, it kinda goes well together!! lol
Honestly man, that techno track of yours if quite good imo.
Yeah thanks man, I made that 7 months ago, my first track I ever made in Electronic music.
I used one loop which was a shaker....ha ha just could not perfect that shaker groove...it was all ITB, using Logic 9, no room treatment, just on a computer and my Virus ti!
I still need to practice though man, far from good yet brother.
Thanks for checking me out hey!
What's the percussion at about 2:50? kinda like toms....sounds great.
ha ha honestly dude I will need to relisten...I know I have one main tom I used which I made using the Virus it is all over the track from start to end..lol
I kind of just wack things in from a list of my sample bucket of samples I have created using my Virus TI.....
The Virus man I really love this thing...........so easy to make great sounds...so so easy to create all kind of sounds yeah....
ha ha honestly dude I will need to relisten...I know I have one main tom I used which I made using the Virus it is all over the track from start to end..lol
I kind of just wack things in from a list of my sample bucket of samples I have created using my Virus TI.....
The Virus man I really love this thing...........so easy to make great sounds...so so easy to create all kind of sounds yeah....
Yeah, don't sweat it! I know what it's like trying to remember what was used in tracks. Yes, the virus is defenetly very versatile, so much under the hood if you go looking.....
IMO the "secret" is just hard work to reach a level of technical abillity.
then the next step is to find "your" special thing. the little trick that was developed "by mistake" on take 54 of track 32 of song 18, picked up and worked until perfection.
so yeah it also takes some talent, to be able to hear if something sounds special, and to be able to hone it into a craft.
and determination to start, work and above all FINISH songs
if it was really easy it wouldn't be fun either
moved by GS moderation
__________________ "You must have Chaos within you, to give Birth to a dancing Star" Friedrich Nietsche
For SALE: ATC SCM7 bookshelve passive monitors, Bryston 3B Power Amplifier, Emagic ATM8 & Unitor 8 midi interfaces (16 i/o through USB)
Last edited by Reptil; 2nd July 2012 at 08:59 AM..
Reason: bet me to it
I Dj'ed for about 8 years before I even sat in front of a DAW. Spent the rest of that time on the dancefloor. I came from a very musical background but didn't actually play an instrument :P Pretty much everyone around me did though, a little bit must have rubbed off.
It took me about 2 years of solid and I mean solid, not 10 hours a week, learning and practice till I could sit down at a DAW and make something a bystander couldn't tell apart from any other music.
Everyone has bad sessions. Don't worry, just keep going. The techniques become more obvious after time, you start to reach a point where the learning starts to come faster. Being hard on yourself is a good sign imo. Even people with a few big EP's under their belt doubt themselves and have crap days, so while that's good news on one hand, it never goes away, but you get better.
Also, ultimately, making it all yourself will make it easier for you. It's about being able to translate and idea from your head to sound. If you're using pre-made, that's going to limit that. When I 1st used a synth I didn't even know what the semi-tone numbers were, lol
Just keep on going You don't get anywhere by quitting.
i'm guessing this is more related to hip hop/electronic stuff but i have to say collaboration is key. i know where my good points are, technical side of engineering, drummer, structuring songs, generally the more mathmatical side of things. i worked with a dude for a few years that filled in the blanks of what i'm missing, guitarist/keyboardist, figuring out harmonies, chord structures etc. it helped a lot and we made some great stuff happen. just a suggestion
I'm the kind of producer who takes so long to finish a song, that by the time I'm done, I've learned so much it sounds like s**t to me.
__________________ - It looks just like a Telefunken U47 - with leather. You'll love it ... - Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny.
- It doesn't make much difference how the paint is put on as long as something has been said. Technique is just a means of arriving at a statement.
Are you just like naturally talented and everything you touch in the studio turns to gold...
What's the deal?
I would say the deal is Chops
Quote:
I am friends with a trained musician who is into electronic music, and he comforts me when he even as a trained musician even struggles to lay down a track given he is as new to production as I am.
Your friend has a huge edge on you - and the gap is only going to get wider as you both learn production, if you don't learn music
IMO, no "genre" truly exempts you from learning the basics of music and how to play an instrument.
__________________
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“What you ask about is music. What you like is sound. Now music and sound are akin, but they are not the same.”
— Confucius
It's interesting that you say that those essays were easier. I perceive music (creativity) as something that has nothing to do with the mind. If you have a hard time when it comes to producing music, it's because you may think about it too much. Learn to repress your mind and you'll eventually start gliding through your sessions. Time and time again, I've realized that that the less you approach a creative process with your mind, the more successful you become at it. Talent is relative, I try to focus on the human connection instead. Does it connect with others?
This is how I feel about creativity, it doesn't mean it's right! It's just an opinion.
I won't comment on the talent thing, because some great replies are rolling in...I will say to make sure your listening space is treated properly and DIY if necessary, or you are paddling upstream in a huge way. Nothing will translate otherwise, and you will be wrestling with bass frequencies in particular to the nth degree. Good luck and have fun !!
I won't comment on the talent thing, because some great replies are rolling in...I will say to make sure your listening space is treated properly and DIY if necessary, or you are paddling upstream in a huge way. Nothing will translate otherwise, and you will be wrestling with bass frequencies in particular to the nth degree. Good luck and have fun !!
It's interesting that you say that those essays were easier. I perceive music (creativity) as something that has nothing to do with the mind. If you have a hard time when it comes to producing music, it's because you may think about it too much. Learn to repress your mind and you'll eventually start gliding through your sessions. Time and time again, I've realized that that the less you approach a creative process with your mind, the more successful you become at it. Talent is relative, I try to focus on the human connection instead. Does it connect with others?
This is how I feel about creativity, it doesn't mean it's right! It's just an opinion.
I think you're probably right Chris, but I think there is a component that goes into learning that requires engaging the mind until it becomes like a reflex, then you can shut off the thought process. Most of us were young and spent a lot of hours just playing and practicing an instrument so it feels like it's natural or second nature as adults. Kids and teenagers have more neuro-plasticity and tend to acquire rather than learn, so the muscle memory builds more naturally.
I always tell people that I was glad I spent my teenage years locked in my bedroom playing guitar because I didn't realize how difficult it was and how terrible I was at it.
I think you're probably right Chris, but I think there is a component that goes into learning that requires engaging the mind until it becomes like a reflex, then you can shut off the thought process. Most of us were young and spent a lot of hours just playing and practicing an instrument so it feels like it's natural or second nature as adults. Kids and teenagers have more neuro-plasticity and tend to acquire rather than learn, so the muscle memory builds more naturally.
I always tell people that I was glad I spent my teenage years locked in my bedroom playing guitar because I didn't realize how difficult it was and how terrible I was at it.
Yes you're exactly right. You learn then you "forget" it when it's all learnt.
Are you just like naturally talented and everything you touch in the studio turns to gold or are you like me a year and a half into it and you are sweating by the end of a track and even then it ends up in the trash cause it sucks.
Seriously, I have never been challenged so much then this music production and mixing thing, I remember doing my Psych essays were not this hard, damn that was a breeze compared to this......just when I think I have it down I'm like seriously depressed again after another session of useless shi%, and garbage WTF man!
Makes me wonder sometimes if maybe I just don't have it ya know, but then I am back at it, reading, learning and banging it out once again, with the soft whispers in the background telling me it's all good and this thing just takes time, ya need to stick with it.
Seriously though, it is a serious challenge man to bang out a track. I mean I refuse to use loops and I try to create it all from scratch......
What's the deal? I love it and I will never give up, however I want to know is producing something which comes easier with time?
Let's see, before I start this all means absolute **** so I'm not gloating.. Follow me on this..
Degree in music production and engineering.. and been mixing / mastering for about 10 years, what do I have to show for it..??????
NOTHING
But it all depends on what your doing: I chose rock and metal cause I'm daft, I'm starting to believe I should just replace everything with synths and put some vocals to it..
So your not alone on this one, it seems even talent only gets you so far..
LUCK, like one guy from linkin park's uncle being the VP at warner bros...
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You don't get anywhere by quitting.
