Smashing Pumpkins : Oceania production

[Sword in Hand]

I agree with you about the drums, they sound too clean and flat. It might be the drummer, who is not Chamberlin. Chamberlin had a way more organic feel, but the new drummer is certainly a good parrot of his style.

I rather like the acoustics being so dynamic, it sounds more realistic. I remember the first time I heard Celestials and it did sound kind of strange, but now I dig the dynamics. I think the album on a whole, is more dynamic and less compressed sounding than a lot of modern recordings, but that's just me. The whole album sounds very clean and clear, which isn't usually my thing, but the songs are good and the album grows on me every time I hear it.

It's a mistake to compare this to past Pumpkin's material, production wise and creatively, this is a new band, with the same name... and I really like the direction their heading.

[Sicarii]

There is a lot more interesting stuff going on with the guitars and synths in this album then there was in Zeitgeist. That just had the "one" Pumpkins sound: Big furry fuzz. I really like some of the clean and crunchy distorted guitars in this that don't have that sound. There is quite a bit more space in the music and I think it is a pretty interesting record after listening just once through. The drums do sound ultra punchy, I would be interested to know if it is sample replacement or if they really got those sounds. If it is not replacement I have to hand it to them, its a pretty impressive sound to achieve.

I like the mood of the album, it seems a little more "Mellon Collie" style where Zeitgeist was "Gish"...

[Happy Musicfan]

Originally Posted by _Ludovico

And those drums, it's not the first time I hear such drum sounds in modern albums. which sound like hitting a sand bag with a 2x4. Like "clicky-punchy-pillowy"

In a way, I hear the same from the new Rush album. There is no thunder, no body, no explosive dynamics, no mud, no weight, no density. I sense a smiley eq on the drum tracks, which scoops out all of the 'goodness' - combined with a too high compression ratio and too early of an attack.

Just guessing though.

[Doc_]

without Jimmy it's not right...Oceania was a mess not the Pumpkins I know...Oceania was not Jimmy...

I posted this pic from a recent session with Jimmy, he really is "The Pumpkins" sound,the way he uses the kit as an instrument is everything...known the original members since the 80"s...

bring back Gish,Dream,Mellon Collie !

Mike Byrne could not replace...

[Happy Musicfan]

Originally Posted by Doc_

without Jimmy it's not right...

That sheds light on the whole issue of original band chemistry being indisposable. So they had some friction at times, big deal, they should just take a break and then get over it. It's often the friction which leads to the magic.

Instead, bands / band leaders often think, "I can get along perfectly well without member(s) x", but in reality, there's something missing which many fans really notice.

[Doc_]

Originally Posted by Happy Musicfan

That sheds light on the whole issue of original band chemistry being indisposable. So they had some friction at times, big deal, they should just take a break and then get over it. It's often the friction which leads to the magic.

Instead, bands / band leaders often think, "I can get along perfectly well without member(s) x", but in reality, there's something missing which many fans really notice.

absolutely agree...it's a shame,no question...

it's a shame,I have been around shit loads of this for 30 yrs,fame gets it all f"cked up...that's what makes guys like the Stones sooo special!

[Sicarii]

I think we need to judge an album on its own merits. No, Jimmy Chamberlain is not on this record, and neither are James or D'arcy. That is just a cold fact but it doesn't really determine this album's path. The Pumpkins are not the same band they were in 1993, and even if they had all the original members they would still not be the same band. And why would we want them to be? They already covered that ground and you can "bring back Mellon Collie, Dream, and Gish" just by popping them in your CD player.

The important thing is does this album have redeeming qualities on its own? Is it a good album? In my opinion it is an interesting album with some great sounds and songs on it. I can't say yet whether it will be a "classic" album for me but so far I think its a much more interesting album than Zeitgeist (which DID have Jimmy). That record was very backward looking to me and this album seems to be looking forward and breaking new ground. Maybe you don't like that new ground, and that is your perrogative. If that's the case, go throw in Siamese Dream and rock out.

[Beat Poet]

To be honest I couldn't give a hoot about the production, it's the songwriting that's more important for me with the Pumpkins and Billy has come up trumps with this one. Yes Jimmy's not there and the album would have been even better with him on, but to follow up Zeitgeist and a couple of patchy Teargarden EPs with Oceania is some feat.

[Lindsay]

I like it, best material from then since Machina imo.
Not every track hits the spot but there are some magic moments.

[verve92]

How come every time a new album comes out, it's GS saying: I'm not impressed, too much compression, blah blah friggin' blah.
I heard this on the GS post on the new Rush album. It's sounds good to me.
Facts:
The people who make these albums are pro's, not clowns (including me) on Gear Slutz.
Second, the sound is not accidental. Certain producers have motifs like overdubbing cymbals, certain reverb on the snare, whatever.
Who are we to say this stuff is no good.
As in most cases, our opinions are of no consequence.

[Cheebs Goat]

OK. Yes the songs are good. And honestly, the loudness/compression/whatever doesn't bother me in the slightest on this one.

But Jimmy or no Jimmy, these drums are bad. BAAAAAAADDDDDDDDD. Every single hit is dead. Every cymbal. Every shell. Bonk splat fizz.

The tone. The feel. The robotic timing. The inhuman consistency of the awful tone. Dead dead dead dead dead. It's like a Casio keyboard demo without the cheesy charm. How are the drums that bad?

[scorpiwoman]

Originally Posted by Doc_

without Jimmy it's not right...Oceania was a mess not the Pumpkins I know...Oceania was not Jimmy...

I posted this pic from a recent session with Jimmy, he really is "The Pumpkins" sound,the way he uses the kit as an instrument is everything...known the original members since the 80"s...

bring back Gish,Dream,Mellon Collie !

Mike Byrne could not replace...

I had the opportunity to see Jimmy play with SkySaw last year and afterwards meet him and actually sit down with him and talk. Nice guy talked about the different drums he used to record the Pumpkin albums and got to pick his brain a bit about recording. I agree Jimmy creates the Pumpkin sound and though I have respect for Billy it's a team effort which can't be duplicated. Not to dog Byrne because the guy is young, but I feel his playing really lacks fluency.

[Doc_]

Originally Posted by scorpiwoman

I had the opportunity to see Jimmy play with SawZaw last year and afterwards meet him and actually sit down with him and talk. Nice guy talked about the different drums he used to record the Pumpkin albums and got to pick his brain a bit about recording. I agree Jimmy creates the Pumpkin sound and though I have respect for Billy it's a team effort which can't be duplicated. Not to dog Byrne because the guy is young, but I feel his playing really lacks fluency.

cool...the band was SkySaw...I introduced Jimmy to my good friend Mike Reina and they formed the band...Mike is an all analog guy,they brought Roy Thomas Baker in for a while on that record,he blew the speakers clear out of the cabinets.

[scorpiwoman]

Originally Posted by Doc_

cool...the band was SkySaw....

Indeed, somehow I was thinking Dewalt...LOL Yes I took my Wife to see Minus the Bear and SkySaw opened the show. Mike was very friendly along with the rest of the band. Good guys.

[kindkind]

Originally Posted by Doc_

I posted this pic from a recent session with Jimmy, he really is "The Pumpkins" sound,the way he uses the kit as an instrument is everything...known the original members since the 80"s...

Why is Jimmy not on this record? Did billy finally piss him off enough to leave like darcy and james?
I really think Billy has gone mad, have you read his poetry? Its awash with jesus.

I havent heard the new album yet, but im guessing his voice has gotten even more annoying and shrill than it was on machina.

Oh, billy. I miss your depression inspired music so.

[lpkyer]

Agree with OP.
Vocals are way too upfront as well.
Songwriting is not my bag.

[Beat Poet]

Originally Posted by kindkind

Why is Jimmy not on this record? Did billy finally piss him off enough to leave like darcy and james?

No one really knows what happened with Jimmy, except that Jimmy said that the Pumpkins wouldn't further his commitment to music. There was a real negative feeling around the band during the Zeitgeist period.

[kindkind]

I am listening to this now. I dont think the mix is remarkable, and ive got it on headphones. But of course BC brings the usual nice guitar sounds. The main problem I have is his lyrical melodies and singing, its alot more upbeat than real SP.

BUT what id really love to know, since you seem to be familiar with whats going on with the band, is what is up with the METRO DVD!? I almost went to that show. Big regret but i saw the 2nd to last at the UC. Seeing that clip of **** You on the videos dvd is just incredible.

[_Ludovico]

Originally Posted by verve92

How come every time a new album comes out, it's GS saying: I'm not impressed, too much compression, blah blah friggin' blah.
I heard this on the GS post on the new Rush album. It's sounds good to me.
Facts:
The people who make these albums are pro's, not clowns (including me) on Gear Slutz.
Second, the sound is not accidental. Certain producers have motifs like overdubbing cymbals, certain reverb on the snare, whatever.
Who are we to say this stuff is no good.
As in most cases, our opinions are of no consequence.

So you blindly accept anything because it's made by a pro?

Do you know that "pro's" have been mixing and mastering Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber records as well? Don't you love how it's squashed beyond comprehension?

I never assume something MUST be good because it's made by a pro. Pro's have been making bad sounding records for decades. Pro's sometimes make doubtful production choices.

Every contractor in my town are pro's, yet some build ugly houses that have issues. Pro chef's make bad food you might dislike. But who are you to complain???? you're only the one eating it.

Who are we to say it's no good? Come on, we're the ones who buy the friggin' album. If we can't complain, who can?

[bondospecial]

The hi hats and ride are so razor sharp (CD version) I don't dare crank the volume up as much as I'd otherwise like to because I find the HF too fatiguing. I'm listening on Tannoy System 800's which err on the side of lacking some top end, it is very unusual for anything to come across as fatiguing on these. In retrospect, having first listened to this album in its entirety streaming off Itunes through the same Tannoys, and only later buying the CD, I prefer the slight loss of HF fidelity that the Itunes streaming version had, before I received my CD :/ Unless the Itunes version is a different master, from what I understand some of this "mastered for Itunes" stuff does receive different treatment now.

[scorpiwoman]

Originally Posted by bondospecial

The hi hats and ride are so razor sharp (CD version) I don't dare crank the volume up as much as I'd otherwise like to because I find the HF too fatiguing. I'm listening on Tannoy System 800's which err on the side of lacking some top end, it is very unusual for anything to come across as fatiguing on these. In retrospect, having first listened to this album in its entirety streaming off Itunes through the same Tannoys, and only later buying the CD, I prefer the slight loss of HF fidelity that the Itunes streaming version had, before I received my CD :/ Unless the Itunes version is a different master, from what I understand some of this "mastered for Itunes" stuff does receive different treatment now.

I agree with this and to think about it the last Pearl Jam CD had the same thing going on with the cymbals. Both recorders were mastered by Bob Ludwig.

[emgbiotch]

I have to agree here. The drums sound terrible on this record. They sound thin and have no life.

[skythemusic]

I actually like the record. The drums are mechanical, the snares are bad, and no one is Jimmy; but for a modern digital production I think it sounds good. Some of the digitized reverbs suck hard. I judge on my Fostex 6301b's and the bass doesn't fart out and the high end doesn't completely annoy me (though the cymbal sizzle borders it), and that is rare for most modern records. I give the production a C+.

The Pumpkins have always been about serious compression and interesting guitar tones. This album is no different. I actually like that the bass is so up front and clean. Yes, the vocals are too loud but the ambiance is good and there are some interesting keyboard textures. I think this is far and away the best thing Billy has done since Adore.

BTW - My buddy is friends with Jimmy and I just got to play one of his snares that he sent him. So cool! IMHO Jimmy is the best modern drummer. Overall this is a "Corgan in Pumpkins mode" solo record. I can live without D'Arcy and even James but it isn't really the Pumpkins without Jimmy behind the kit.