Album Credits in a Digital age..

[Jake 2.0]

I wasn't sure where to post this..it's not quite moan zone but not good news either...hope some people can relate to what i wrote. This being a music and art related website. rock on

[davidpaulpaige]

I feel ya!
Around here it's this:
Band comes in with all the rock garb (clothes, hair, chicks and beer). The lead guitarist has left his axe at the band house. He seems to be infuriated that NO ONE saw it laying around and, is rapidly becoming an ass. The drummer has the most crapped out mismatched set I ever saw and he is bragging upon the set's pedigree, btw the kick sounds like you are, with your food, kicking on a a 50lb bag of dog food. Meanwhile the bass player with his $100.00 "awesome... so worth the money" bass, spots a real instrument hanging on the wall and asked, "Dude, can I use YOUR bass, dog?" The singer and his girlfriend(s) stroll in 3 and a half hours late and, is wondering what he has spent $200 for the last 4 hours on.
After tracking (whew...) we play down the tracks noticing every note and beat that seems off and the singer tells me don't worry about it we can 'auto tune" and fix it in the mix and, he would know... he has been doing this for 25 years.
2 weeks later... the drums are quantized AND replaced. The vocals are tuned and I re-did the bass myself.
4 weeks later: Album gets out and I notice that my actual full name does not appear anywhere in the sleeve print, for anything engineering, mix, performance ect. (Thanks GUYS!!!!)
Nearly 3 weeks of my life... paid BUT gone and with NO credits. These were semi-famous yesterday's rock stars. Next time I will get DOUBLE my standard fee...upfront w/royalties LOL!!!

[jordanvoth]

If you don't want your album credits to read like that, don't use those technologies. Nobody is forcing you to work with bands that want to sound like that but it's likely your living is dependant on these technologies. If that's the case and you feel trapped in your job where you get to use your talent, work with interesting people, be your own boss and choose your hours maybe a new career path is in order.

[projektk]

This is what contracts are for.

Sent from my LG-P925 using Gearslutz App

[J.R. McNeely]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

If you don't want your album credits to read like that, don't use those technologies. Nobody is forcing you to work with bands that want to sound like that but it's likely your living is dependant on these technologies. If that's the case and you feel trapped in your job where you get to use your talent, work with interesting people, be your own boss and choose your hours maybe a new career path is in order.

*Sigh* The first 10 years of my career, I worked my ass off. Made some great records (and a few not so great) in wold class studios all over the world. The great ones were made with a lot of hard work, and along side of some INCREDIBLY talented musicians and artists.

The following 10 years, I have made some "Technically" great albums with some incredibly mediocre / lousy "Musicians" and "Singers" (who really had no business recording at all) who only HAD a career because of a talented producer / Pro Tools editor.

We now live in a time (in music) where technology trumps talent in almost every aspect. Pure talent is no longer a requirement....and that is sad.

I think about a career change daily.

[mellocapp]

The credits are the most interesting part!

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by J.R. McNeely

*Sigh* The first 10 years of my career, I worked my ass off. Made some great records (and a few not so great) in wold class studios all over the world. The great ones were made with a lot of hard work, and along side of some INCREDIBLY talented musicians and artists.

The following 10 years, I have made some "Technically" great albums with some incredibly mediocre / lousy "Musicians" and "Singers" (who really had no business recording at all) who only HAD a career because of a talented producer / Pro Tools editor.

We now live in a time (in music) where technology trumps talent in almost every aspect. Pure talent is no longer a requirement....and that is sad.

I think about a career change daily.

DUDE NO! You're freaking crazy good at what you do! Burning At Both Ends is one of my references here. Sorry to hear things are bumming you out.

[J.R. McNeely]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

DUDE NO! You're freaking crazy good at what you do! Burning At Both Ends is one of my references here. Sorry to hear things are bumming you out.

You are too kind! Thank you!

Man, no worries...I've been "Thinking about it" for years now. In other words....I'm not going anywhere. I don't know how to do anything else!

My point is, things are just SO different now. The human element has taken a back seat to the abuse of technology. Things will never be as they once were...and the very things that got me excited when I got into this business (Recording and Mixing in Big studios for weeks at a time) for the most part, are now about over....not just for me, but for EVERYONE! Most of you young guns out there have NO idea of the awesome experiences you have missed out on! Most of you will never get the chance to work in a REAL studio with REAL gear...with REAL pressure on you to capture a REAL performance....with NO UNDO BUTTON!

Audio Engineering used to be an Art, and you HAD to be great to survive. In my opinion, this is no longer true...simply because, the abuse of technology has turned mediocrity into greatness. I mean, why bother even trying to get a great drum sound...your probably going to replace all the drums with samples anyways....right?

Now, before you just write me off as an old geezer living in the past, please understand that I am NOT anti technology....I love it! However, it has made what we do accessible to the masses...and that is unfortunate for everyone. (Except Avid and Waves) The "Art" of engineering and Mixing (and Mastering) gets more blurred with each release of the "One Knob Plugins" that make you sound like CLA! (No offense Chris)

This will make more sense to you someday in the future, when Nike makes a pair of shoes that can make anyone throw a football like Peyton Manning, and run like Chris Johnson in their prime. Pure talent and skill will mean very little in the NFL....if there continues to be one.

And now, I must get back to my computer and print some mixes....before my computer starts printing them for me.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Jake!

J.R.

P.S. GET OFF MY LAWN!

[J.R. McNeely]

Originally Posted by AyA

Make the change.
I don't know you from Adam but you really sound like a change could do some good.
Donate your gear to the local public school. Sure it'll be mashed in 15 seconds but it might spark one mind.
Move to another country, become an immigrant, pick a second world country with english as a second language.
Start a new business as a handyman and proceed to go door to door through the neighbourhoods and poorer parts of your new land offering your technical advice and skills to offer solutions like low power lighting, cooking and heating. Also, introduce cheap laptops, like horrible basic things for reading and writing and simple video rather than games and start getting people connected to the internet and giving people the power to learn for themselves.

You probably have enough in assets now to go to a second or third world country and subsistence live for a million years... What's stopping you?

You must think I'm rich! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You are a funny guy! My last name is McNeely...NOT Lord-Alge! Hahahahaha!!

[doom64]

Originally Posted by davidpaulpaige

I feel ya!
Around here it's this:
Band comes in with all the rock garb (clothes, hair, chicks and beer). The lead guitarist has left his axe at the band house. He seems to be infuriated that NO ONE saw it laying around and, is rapidly becoming an ass. The drummer has the most crapped out mismatched set I ever saw and he is bragging upon the set's pedigree, btw the kick sounds like you are, with your food, kicking on a a 50lb bag of dog food. Meanwhile the bass player with his $100.00 "awesome... so worth the money" bass, spots a real instrument hanging on the wall and asked, "Dude, can I use YOUR bass, dog?" The singer and his girlfriend(s) stroll in 3 and a half hours late and, is wondering what he has spent $200 for the last 4 hours on.
After tracking (whew...) we play down the tracks noticing every note and beat that seems off and the singer tells me don't worry about it we can 'auto tune" and fix it in the mix and, he would know... he has been doing this for 25 years.
2 weeks later... the drums are quantized AND replaced. The vocals are tuned and I re-did the bass myself.
4 weeks later: Album gets out and I notice that my actual full name does not appear anywhere in the sleeve print, for anything engineering, mix, performance ect. (Thanks GUYS!!!!)
Nearly 3 weeks of my life... paid BUT gone and with NO credits. These were semi-famous yesterday's rock stars. Next time I will get DOUBLE my standard fee...upfront w/royalties LOL!!!

I am on the low rung of the totem pole. Good recordings and mixes but I just don't have the facilities to get the big regional bands. That's cool though I just won't quit my day job.

Bands like this hear the samples on my web site. Music that is from talented musicians with good gear who put the time in to rehearse and arrange their songs so they sound good. About the only thing I replace nearly every time is drums because GREAT drums are expensive and my drum tracking room sucks. I'd love to have a place with wood walls/floors/ceilings that is more than 15 feet high but I don't. So drum samples it is.

I love laying down tracks with bands LIVE like I imagine "the old days" were. They aren't all out in the same room with amps bleeding into each other's microphones but they play together like at shows. Not only do tracks go down on the hard drive faster but the experience for the band, one that is pretty well-rehearsed, is much more FUN.

Yes, there will be guitar and vocal overdubs but once the live tracks are down the drummer and bassist can sit it out. The song has more "vibe" when everyone plays at the same time and things can get finished faster. This is all dependent on hard work PRIOR to hitting the record button though! In turn we have more time if the session wraps early to discuss the mix instead of the band spending more time and money coming over on another day to discuss that.

I tell all potential clients who inquire about tracking/mixing to be well-rehearased for a better experience. Sometimes they listen and sometimes they don't. But i think it helps to mention spend time BEFORE you come in so you save time and $$$ later.

The crappy bands come in with their crappy gear and act unprofessional. I hate that "first impression" feeling when that happens. I try to get through with it and keep spirits up but it's hard when people act like they are in elementary school. What I've noticed is the bands with older (40-60 years old) members that I record who do it for fun are generally more talented and more professional. From my experience rappers and "folk music" types are more professional than the wannabe rock stars.

Day job...yep, keeping it.

[frans]

It's down again to people who love music and other people. The others won't care about credits anyway, those who love might find out when they occupy themselves with the music and the band. So, yes, credits in the digital age are a PITA.
Here it's not that many bands that read my name on an album but those who record here got told by bands that liked being in my studio. Tonight there are vocal overdubs with a band where everyone is 60+. They do the same music they did as teenagers, they are fun. Word of mouth, because a digital file won't tell them the story or my name.

[Joe Haze]

Speaking of "greatness"... The other day I was talking with a client about how much time would be needed to track drums, piano and strings. After I gave my estimate the reply was..."My other band just went to ****studio and tracked five songs in a day". I attempted to explain why it takes me half the day (or more) just to get a drum sound.

I must suck, because I couldn't get drums, guitar, bass and vocals setup plus track 5 songs (with keeper takes) in one day.


Moving on.... Credit in a digital age? What about when the band "rebalances my stems..??"

[doom64]

Originally Posted by Joe Haze

Speaking of "greatness"... The other day I was talking with a client about how much time would be needed to track drums, piano and strings. After I gave my estimate the reply was..."My other band just went to ****studio and tracked five songs in a day". I attempted to explain why it takes me half the day (or more) just to get a drum sound.

I must suck, because I couldn't get drums, guitar, bass and vocals setup plus track 5 songs (with keeper takes) in one day.


Moving on.... Credit in a digital age? What about when the band "rebalances my stems..??"

Yeah these guys want Wal*Mart prices at 5 star hotel quality in McDonald's drive-thru time. Eff that.

[Jake 2.0]

J.R! you are an inspiration to me and one of the reasons i mix and record!

Originally Posted by J.R. McNeely

*Sigh* The first 10 years of my career, I worked my ass off. Made some great records (and a few not so great) in wold class studios all over the world. The great ones were made with a lot of hard work, and along side of some INCREDIBLY talented musicians and artists.

The following 10 years, I have made some "Technically" great albums with some incredibly mediocre / lousy "Musicians" and "Singers" (who really had no business recording at all) who only HAD a career because of a talented producer / Pro Tools editor.

We now live in a time (in music) where technology trumps talent in almost every aspect. Pure talent is no longer a requirement....and that is sad.

I think about a career change daily.

[Joe Haze]

I really hate the music business now. I could write a book, but nobody would want to read it..

[chrisjones]

Originally Posted by J.R. McNeely

I think about a career change daily.

No way J.R!

If you think the technology has taken over talent. Just record yourself every once in a while(which you often do when I think about it ) You aren't just an amazing mixer... You're also a great great bass player, great guitarist and you can even play the drums... and you actually can sing too. Man if I only had a touch of your talent!

And sorry Jake, didn't mean to hijack your thread. But you're amazing too. I'm amazed by all your work and I'm always eager to hear something new from you.

[Jake 2.0]

i agree! J.R is the man!

thanks for the kind words as well about my work man!

i don't really post mixes i do on here anymore but plenty of new stuff @ Jake Antelis Production Reel by Jantelis on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Originally Posted by chrisjones

No way J.R!

If you think the technology has taken over talent. Just record yourself every once in a while(which you often do when I think about it ) You aren't just an amazing mixer... You're also a great great bass player, great guitarist and you can even play the drums... and you actually can sing too. Man if I only had a touch of your talent!

And sorry Jake, didn't mean to hijack your thread. But you're amazing too. I'm amazed by all your work and I'm always eager to hear something new from you.

[ksandvik]

Every released track should have a unique URL/web page. Put anything you want there. Or, if nothing else, edit the Discogs entry.

[rdstreets]

Jake/JR - agree with the other posts here about your talent. JR, loved hearing your rendition of "Salt in my Tears". Never heard that one before (even back in the 80s).

It's clear we live in a messed up age where society has devalued some of the finer things in life all the while making the basic staples we can't live without ridiculously expensive. There will come a time where we won't stand for it any longer. What we have going on now can't last.

Specific to music, there has to be a return to higher fidelity audio (no more mp3s). I'd think once transfer speeds reach the right mark this will happen.

But then we have the issue of musicianship (artists who can really compose a song in the traditional sense and musicians who actually play their instrument well). With the decline in these two areas, gone is the curiosity on the part of the listener to know who wrote or played on what.

Flashback to the 70s/80s where all I did was read the liner notes. When I finally met Bob Clearmountain in the 90s he may as well have been a rock star for me. He made all my favorite albums!

The way we interact with music has to change at least in part. Sure we will always have our cellphones/portables. But whether it is a high fidelity iPad or something else, we need the large touchscreen and the beautiful album art, photos, bios and most of all the credits!