I'm sick of the Pro Tools hype. Why isn't Reaper getting as much love?
#91
8th April 2012
Old 8th April 2012
  #91
Lives for gear
 

Just remember during the gold rush, the people that made the most money were the people who sold the picks and shovels.
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#92
8th April 2012
Old 8th April 2012
  #92
Deleted User #43636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Sanddigger1, I'm running Hybrid so plenty of non-software love here! Large frame desk (too large, 8 feet wide LOL) and plenty of outboard. Using multiple Alesis HD24XR hard disk recorders for converters only in the studio (for remote no need to take a computer/DAW) with three RME 9652 PCI interfaces (72 channels I/O). Even with all that hardware the DAW still has a role as tape recorder and editor. Depending on a what type of project/budget (client who wants endless recalls/no money/just prefer ITB sound) DAW's have their place as a mixing platform. I see plenty of love in posts for the broad spectrum of choices around here ITB, OTB, and Hybrid.
I hear you, I'm running a hybrid setup too. I didnt mean to derail the thread, it was just a joke. I dont hate software, it just that in some cases I like hardware better.
#93
8th April 2012
Old 8th April 2012
  #93
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
More of a problem in DAW's is metering which when you overloaded with low end / subsonic signal didn't show it.
Yes they do - daw track metering just shows sample values - of course it will show a 1Hz sinusoid for example - the meter will bounce up and down at 1Hz, peaking at whatever dBfs the sinusoid peaks at ...
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#94
9th April 2012
Old 9th April 2012
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
The top pic is the "Vox" mod of "Rado", and the second (of just the tcp), is the as yet unreleased "Imperial" from White Tie (one of the main reaper themers).
Thanks Tim
#95
9th April 2012
Old 9th April 2012
  #95
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s.d.finley's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post

I don't believe Delay Compensation has been in PT since version 6, at least not the "consumer" levels of PT. From what I read, it came out with version 9.

.
In your first post you said you had PTHD since 1999. How did you miss delay comp in version 6 of PTHD? Not upgrading until version 9 maybe? LE didn't have delay comp till version 9.
#96
9th April 2012
Old 9th April 2012
  #96
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.d.finley View Post
In your first post you said you had PTHD since 1999. How did you miss delay comp in version 6 of PTHD? Not upgrading until version 9 maybe? LE didn't have delay comp till version 9.
Indeed. As far as I can see, LE was never "hyped". People praise HD for the solid product it was. Reaper is the product getting "hyped". People don't "hype" HD - they just get the job done. Obviously there's a buzz around HDX, and rightly so, it's a massive upgrade for the pro world. But sooner or later, the buzz will settle down, people will get on with their jobs, and the next "game changer" will get the hype.
#97
9th April 2012
Old 9th April 2012
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
... Reaper is the product getting "hyped". ...
yep!
#98
9th April 2012
Old 9th April 2012
  #98
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

I thought PT hate threads were a thing of the past.
#99
9th April 2012
Old 9th April 2012
  #99
Lives for gear
 

Psycho_monkey is right that Reaper is hyped by it's fanboys just as the rest of the DAW's are here too. Reaper does get a lot of Gearslutz love though also. The thing is trying to cut through the marketing crap around here. Watch out when anyone uses the marketing jargon phrase "game changer" as mere humans never use that phrase in normal conversation LOL (sorry Psycho, just had to give you a tickle). The thing is you should just get your hands dirty by grabbing their free uncrippled download off the net. Give it a spin and make up your own mind, nevermind who's DAW is currently winning the marketing battle on the net as you will only loose some time to try it out. The more DAW's you try out the more you will come to the conclusion they all pretty much cover the same ground and the differences between them are mostly cosmetic and work flow related (how they choose to impliment a function).
#100
9th April 2012
Old 9th April 2012
  #100
Died for gear
 
Goliath|Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone View Post
I thought PT hate threads were a thing of the past.
People will hate on PT until it is a distant memory.






And then someone will revive the thread.
#101
9th April 2012
Old 9th April 2012
  #101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
PThe thing is trying to cut through the marketing crap around here. Watch out when anyone uses the marketing jargon phrase "game changer" as mere humans never use that phrase in normal conversation LOL (sorry Psycho, just had to give you a tickle).
That's exactly why I put it in quotation marks....try to keep up!
#102
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #102
Gear nut
 

What are your system specs on your rig that ran Protools?
#103
11th April 2012
Old 11th April 2012
  #103
Gear nut
 

I don't see any Pro Tools hype, all I hear is Pro Tools bashing.
kdp
#104
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #104
kdp
Lives for gear
 

People hype all the DAWs. They all get the job done.
#105
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #105
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyspice View Post
Chip , do a search on Gain Staging and I'm sure others can give you a much more detailed explination then I'm prepared to.
Gain staging has nothing to do with overloading the master. You can ignore gain staging, blowout the channel and then refuse to turn the fader down on said channel and say "the master is overloading!" but that's not the DAW's fault.
#106
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #106
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyspice View Post
Tim, the trim Knob is an issue with Reaper and you know it. Now your just being pushy.
There is no "trim knob issue" in Reaper. This implies something is broke, or that there is something specific to Reaper that is somehow different than any other DAW. You can insert one as you wish, or make a template of 300 tracks with them already inserted, or any other configuration you want.
#107
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #107
Banned
 

OK Chip, your the expert!
#108
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #108
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath|Audio View Post
Exhibit A


Looks like Acid pro....

Here's some questions that a lot of people have overlooked. What type of production are you doing? Are you tracking bands? Tracking and mixing live music? Or are you doing electronic music? Each DAW handles specific recording/mixing situations a little differently.

Most people are frustrated with Logic and PT because they don't quite understand the environment/workflow and can't quite get "under the hood" of the program to tinker, or just haven't familiarized themselves with the program. It takes a little more time and patience to fully unlock the mysteries of the program (menu locations, verbage, etc.)

Some DAW's are just install and go with minimal fuss. I started using Acid on it's original release (1.x). I came from Cakewalk (on a 486 machine) and a 4 track (mid 90's). Acid was much quicker to pick up. It helped me understand the logic (no pun intended) of the DAW. Years later, I pick up Pro-Tools. It took me a long time to get used to it, literally about 2 years before I was totally comfortable with it. It's a huge difference from the Acid/Vegas/Reaper layout.

Too many people have systems that are too underpowered to take full advantage of Protools or several other DAWs. "But I have a macbook pro with 4 gigs of RAM!" Good for you. But have you ever run PT on a dual quad core xeon system (Mac or PC) with 32 gigs of RAM and 4 SSDs? Runs a little smoother, right? Yeah, I know it can run on a lot less of a system without problems, but a lot of lower end and box systems have parts integrated that will affect your DAW. Even your USB bus controller, if you're running a USB interface, can cause a kink. Have buffer under runs or your hard drive can't keep up with the audio? That's not the software (usually). This is where a lot of people give up on the program because their system can't let it do what it want's to do. This is becoming less and less of an issue with today's computers vs the computers of just 4-5 years ago. Hell, there's a difference from a computer from last year! Oh, technology....

There's nothing wrong with Reaper, or Vegas, or Acid! They are good DAW's! It's just what you prefer. It's what your system can handle. It's how you enjoy interacting with whatever UI makes sense to you.

Just make sure you fully understand the benefits of each and have enough hours logged on each before you start bashing them. You will always have someone else claiming their DAW is better. They are right, though. It's better for THEM.

#109
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #109
Died for gear
 
Goliath|Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheneysGun View Post
Most people are frustrated with Logic and PT because they don't quite understand the environment/workflow and can't quite get "under the hood" of the program to tinker, or just haven't familiarized themselves with the program. It takes a little more time and patience to fully unlock the mysteries of the program (menu locations, verbage, etc.)
I agree. And in some ways, all DAWs are like the Borg, resistance to anything but their way is futile.

I guess I am a conformist. I like Pro Tools, because it is predictable when I use someone else's set up. This is something I do often so it is important that I am not screwing around with keysets or other custom crap.
#110
13th April 2012
Old 13th April 2012
  #110
Lives for gear
 

CheneysGun, why post a pic of such an old version of Reaper (v0.42)? They are v.4.22 now.
#111
16th April 2012
Old 16th April 2012
  #111
Lives for gear
 
illacov's Avatar
 

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheneysGun View Post
Looks like Acid pro....

Here's some questions that a lot of people have overlooked. What type of production are you doing? Are you tracking bands? Tracking and mixing live music? Or are you doing electronic music? Each DAW handles specific recording/mixing situations a little differently.

Most people are frustrated with Logic and PT because they don't quite understand the environment/workflow and can't quite get "under the hood" of the program to tinker, or just haven't familiarized themselves with the program. It takes a little more time and patience to fully unlock the mysteries of the program (menu locations, verbage, etc.)

Some DAW's are just install and go with minimal fuss. I started using Acid on it's original release (1.x). I came from Cakewalk (on a 486 machine) and a 4 track (mid 90's). Acid was much quicker to pick up. It helped me understand the logic (no pun intended) of the DAW. Years later, I pick up Pro-Tools. It took me a long time to get used to it, literally about 2 years before I was totally comfortable with it. It's a huge difference from the Acid/Vegas/Reaper layout.

Too many people have systems that are too underpowered to take full advantage of Protools or several other DAWs. "But I have a macbook pro with 4 gigs of RAM!" Good for you. But have you ever run PT on a dual quad core xeon system (Mac or PC) with 32 gigs of RAM and 4 SSDs? Runs a little smoother, right? Yeah, I know it can run on a lot less of a system without problems, but a lot of lower end and box systems have parts integrated that will affect your DAW. Even your USB bus controller, if you're running a USB interface, can cause a kink. Have buffer under runs or your hard drive can't keep up with the audio? That's not the software (usually). This is where a lot of people give up on the program because their system can't let it do what it want's to do. This is becoming less and less of an issue with today's computers vs the computers of just 4-5 years ago. Hell, there's a difference from a computer from last year! Oh, technology....

There's nothing wrong with Reaper, or Vegas, or Acid! They are good DAW's! It's just what you prefer. It's what your system can handle. It's how you enjoy interacting with whatever UI makes sense to you.

Just make sure you fully understand the benefits of each and have enough hours logged on each before you start bashing them. You will always have someone else claiming their DAW is better. They are right, though. It's better for THEM.

PT can't use the 32GB in your imaginary scenario. The SSD drives and multicore computer are a different story. However 64 bit applications like Logic, Reaper and many others will see the 32GB plus use all 8 cores of the CPU much more efficiently.

PT at the moment is still 32bit coded and sees only 4GB. If you're on a system thats spec'd like the one you referenced then the extra RAM is used for running a 64bit app to host audio or VIs to PT via Rewire. A pretty common practice but TOTALLY unnecessary in other more up to date programs.

Peace
Illumination
#112
22nd April 2012
Old 22nd April 2012
  #112
Lives for gear
 
projektk's Avatar
 

Pro tools will be 64 bit soon. By the end of the year. Both Windows 8 and Mountain Lion will release as 64 bit only from what I am hearing. So what does it matter, stick with what you know. As far as I'm concerned Cockos isn't putting nearly as much effort into Reaper as Presonus is into Studio One.

Sent from my LG-P925 using Gearslutz App
#113
22nd April 2012
Old 22nd April 2012
  #113
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTbreaker View Post
reaper just doesnt have the same polished feel to me as pro tools.

Reaper does have some really nifty features. I enjoy the way it handles automation...

I think I choose to use and pay into the PT game because I get the best results with it and I like the workflow.

I'm also of the techie variety (i'd assume most of us here are) but I just don't have the time to learn a huge variety of workflows that major studios are not using.

It's just so easy to open up a PT session and know exactly what's going on.

Every DAW I've used has issues. Infact almost every piece of software/os I've used has things I would like to tweak. I've used linux... but what it comes down to is that I know PT will allow me to get the job done. It will run the plugins I need. It will easily transfer to other studios.

I have reaper installed on my laptop and I love it's resource lite operation but when it comes down to it I just prefer PT.

I feel like reaper has some great features that PT could benefit from incorporating but the picture I've attached I feel perfectly demonstrates why I prefer PT. I know this is a gui thing but feel is a big part of something that you use everyday. For me this window feels like... windows 95.

This is not meant to be harsh. It (reaper/most othe DAWs) is definitely functional but it just doesn't have that same magical feel to me as PT.


Reaper feels like... like...

rubbish to me. It feels like it has been created by a nerdy computer programmer that, in an attempt to impress his other nerdy computer programming mates, has jammed every feature under the sun into it... which has absolutely ruined the workflow... at least for me.

Two features I love about reaper.

1. Realtime bounce. I would love my protools HD system to have realtime bounce... just for the one voice over session I do a year. The rest of the time I mix through a console, so it isn't needed... but when you have 8 hours of therapy voiceovers, realtime bounce would come in handy!

2. The "ping" feature for measuring delay compensation for outboard gear. It doesn't work consistently... Reaper would alter the overall delay compensation every few minutes when I used it (even when nothing else changed... no new plugins, no VI's, etc...). It would crap itself and I would have to go back through every realinsert instance and re-ping the outboard! Its a great idea in theory, that I would love in protools HD. HD still has the most rock solid latency of any DAW I have ever used...

...that is all I really want in a DAW. Predictability. I know the limits of my HD system and it works for me!
#114
22nd April 2012
Old 22nd April 2012
  #114
Gear nut
 

Reaper is unpredictable? I'm reading this and thinking "what are they talking about with bouncing?" - I don't know why you have to "bounce" in PT, but then I find "solutions" like this written in SoS:

"Increasing the H/W Buffer size and DAE buffer size can help, but if you are running v7.3 or earlier, don't use DAE Buffer (Level 8), as this has proven to cause more problems than it solves. If you get an error message that includes "FF_AudioProperty.cpp, line 33", this is the most likely cause.
Drawing windows, especially plug-in windows with meters, takes processing power, and when you are on the edge trying to bounce that monster Session, closing all the plug-in windows can help reduce processor load.
The "FF_AudioProperty.cpp, line 33" and "Could not save because assertion in CNeolOBlock.CPP Line 164" error messages can be solved by trashing the Digidesign Database files on the drive that has your Session and also in the Library / Application Support / Digidesign / Databases folder (Mac), or Program Files / Digidesign / Pro Tools / Databases folder (Windows). Delete the Volumes folder and the Digidesign Databases folder on your Session drive and that should silence the messages. If you get any error message with 'NeoAccess' in it, trashing these folders is a fairly safe option.
The -1309 error means that the bounced file will exceed the 2GB file-size limit, but you can get this even if the song you're bouncing is only a few minutes long, if there are rogue automation breakpoints well down the Session. The best practice when bouncing is to highlight in the timeline where you want to bounce from and to. Otherwise PT will assume you want to bounce the whole Session and include rogue automation and small file fragments left over well after the song has finished."


... I'll take Reaper's "unpredictability".
#115
22nd April 2012
Old 22nd April 2012
  #115
Banned
 

OK Chip, your the expert!
Deleted User #43636
#116
23rd April 2012
Old 23rd April 2012
  #116
Deleted User #43636
Guest
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrode View Post
2. The "ping" feature for measuring delay compensation for outboard gear. It doesn't work consistently... Reaper would alter the overall delay compensation every few minutes when I used it (even when nothing else changed... no new plugins, no VI's, etc...). It would crap itself and I would have to go back through every realinsert instance and re-ping the outboard! Its a great idea in theory, that I would love in protools HD. HD still has the most rock solid latency of any DAW I have ever used...

...that is all I really want in a DAW. Predictability. I know the limits of my HD system and it works for me!
If you were using a firewire interface, it could cause latency variations, because the transfer rate isnt as steady as with other protocols.
#117
23rd April 2012
Old 23rd April 2012
  #117
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Reaper is unpredictable? I'm reading this and thinking "what are they talking about with bouncing?" - I don't know why you have to "bounce" in PT, but then I find "solutions" like this written in SoS:

"Increasing the H/W Buffer size and DAE buffer size can help, but if you are running v7.3 or earlier, don't use DAE Buffer (Level 8), as this has proven to cause more problems than it solves. If you get an error message that includes "FF_AudioProperty.cpp, line 33", this is the most likely cause.
Drawing windows, especially plug-in windows with meters, takes processing power, and when you are on the edge trying to bounce that monster Session, closing all the plug-in windows can help reduce processor load.
The "FF_AudioProperty.cpp, line 33" and "Could not save because assertion in CNeolOBlock.CPP Line 164" error messages can be solved by trashing the Digidesign Database files on the drive that has your Session and also in the Library / Application Support / Digidesign / Databases folder (Mac), or Program Files / Digidesign / Pro Tools / Databases folder (Windows). Delete the Volumes folder and the Digidesign Databases folder on your Session drive and that should silence the messages. If you get any error message with 'NeoAccess' in it, trashing these folders is a fairly safe option.
The -1309 error means that the bounced file will exceed the 2GB file-size limit, but you can get this even if the song you're bouncing is only a few minutes long, if there are rogue automation breakpoints well down the Session. The best practice when bouncing is to highlight in the timeline where you want to bounce from and to. Otherwise PT will assume you want to bounce the whole Session and include rogue automation and small file fragments left over well after the song has finished."


... I'll take Reaper's "unpredictability".

Well, there is a lesson I have learnt on more than one occasion. Don't post late at night! It should have said "offline bounce" rather than "realtime bounce"...

But anyway, it has kind of exposed you as the "biggest hyper" in this thread. I merely said why I don't like reaper. I even added some of the features in reaper that I would actually love to see in Protools... But you've gone off the deep end, really. It is obvious that you don't want to have a constructive conversation. Have you ever used protools HD? Have you ever routed outboard gear into your DAW as inserts? Have you ever mixed through an analogue desk? Those pieces of gear don't work in anything other than realtime. It is the one reason why 99% of the time, protools lack of offline bounce doesn't bother me one bit.

Listing a bug in a 5 year old version of protools as some kind of argument against its predictability is just ridiculous. There is an entire forum dedicated to bugs in Reaper. There is an entire forum dedicated to bugs in EVERY make of DAW. That is the nature of the beast. That is the nature of systems created by imperfect humans. No DAW is perfect...

Acting like you have something to gain by proving reaper is the best is just a waste of time. There are 7 billion people on this planet... and every single one of them is running their own race. You and myself included. Protools HD gets me going where I need to go much faster than anything else I have tried... reaper included.

Seriously, if you are against "hype"... please stop and grow up.
#118
23rd April 2012
Old 23rd April 2012
  #118
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrode View Post
But anyway, it has kind of exposed you as the "biggest hyper" in this thread.
I'm "exposed" as a "hyper"? So, one can say what one chooses to about Reaper, but then another can't say anything about Pro Tools? All I've done is present my opinion relative to the topic.

Quote:
aI merely said why I don't like reaper.
... and all I've said is the my opinion to the contrary. Double standard?


Quote:
I even added some of the features in reaper that I would actually
... do you know what the term "back handed compliment" means?


Quote:
love to see in Protools... But you've gone off the deep end, really. It
By posting a complicated issue that isn't found in Reaper with a complicated solution, which I've never encountered in Reaper? "Ok".

Quote:
is obvious that you don't want to have a constructive conversation.
Hmmm.....

Quote:
Have you ever used protools HD? Have you ever routed outboard gear into your DAW as inserts?
Actually, yes, at one point I had a number of things looped on my Motu 24 I/O with Reaper and didn't have any problems. Not that one finds that as a common thing with most mixing ITB these days, but YMMV.

Quote:
Have you ever mixed through an analogue desk?
That is the thing you set your coffee on in the control room?

Quote:
Those pieces of gear don't work in anything other than realtime. It is the one reason why 99% of the time, protools lack of offline bounce doesn't bother me one bit.
... and that's why Reaper is rubbish? Ok.

Quote:
Listing a bug in a 5 year old version of protools as some kind of argument against its predictability is just ridiculous.
It's perfect now?

On the other hand, posting pictures of what Reaper looked like 5 years ago isn't ridiculous, and it's "hype" to show otherwise? Or to make passing generalized statements that Reaper is "unpredictable" without any qualification?


Quote:
Acting like you have something to gain by proving reaper is the best is just a waste of time.
I am not trying to prove anything, except provide my opinion relative to the topic of this thread and to counter positions I feel are contrary to reality.


Quote:
Seriously, if you are against "hype"... please stop and grow up.

Touchy much?
#119
23rd April 2012
Old 23rd April 2012
  #119
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
I'm "exposed" as a "hyper"? So, one can say what one chooses to about Reaper, but then another can't say anything about Pro Tools? All I've done is present my opinion relative to the topic.



... and all I've said is the my opinion to the contrary. Double standard?




... do you know what the term "back handed compliment" means?




By posting a complicated issue that isn't found in Reaper with a complicated solution, which I've never encountered in Reaper? "Ok".



Hmmm.....



Actually, yes, at one point I had a number of things looped on my Motu 24 I/O with Reaper and didn't have any problems. Not that one finds that as a common thing with most mixing ITB these days, but YMMV.



That is the thing you set your coffee on in the control room?



... and that's why Reaper is rubbish? Ok.



It's perfect now?

On the other hand, posting pictures of what Reaper looked like 5 years ago isn't ridiculous, and it's "hype" to show otherwise? Or to make passing generalized statements that Reaper is "unpredictable" without any qualification?




I am not trying to prove anything, except provide my opinion relative to the topic of this thread and to counter positions I feel are contrary to reality.





Touchy much?

Wow, just... Wow. I don't think you even know what "bounce" means... nor do I think you even understood my original post. So I am just going to leave it like that.

Ps. What happens when you add an RTAS plugin after a TDM plugin in protools HD?
#120
24th April 2012
Old 24th April 2012
  #120
Gear Head
 

Reaper – the DAW on steroids.
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