Login / Register
 
What with the hate between API and Radial?
New Reply
Subscribe
sgmw
Thread Starter
#1
31st March 2012
Old 31st March 2012
  #1
Gear nut
 
sgmw's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Wellington
Posts: 127

Thread Starter
sgmw is offline
What with the hate between API and Radial?

I bought a 500 Series Radial X-Amp a couple of days ago and was quite excited about putting in my API 1608.

I then get home and find out that API will void the warranty if any slot has a non-VPR compliant module it .

Radial write on their website:
"Although Radial has requested to become a VPR member, since we produce competitive 500 series power racks, our request was denied. And even though Radial is not a member of the VPR Alliance, we believe that the intention is good and valuable from a sales & marketing perspective."

Surely this defeats the purpose of having a standard? Fortunately I was able to return the X-Amp but what a PITA.
#2
31st March 2012
Old 31st March 2012
  #2
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: South
Posts: 12,770

AllAboutTone is offline
So crazy I must add.
#3
31st March 2012
Old 31st March 2012
  #3
Gear addict
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 462

Purple is offline
But Purple, A-Designs etc make competing products too, and they are part of it.

My wildly uneducated guess would be that there is some sort of fee to join this alliance that Radial chose not to pay. But again, just speculating.
DSK
#4
31st March 2012
Old 31st March 2012
  #4
DSK
Lives for gear
 
DSK's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,262

DSK is offline
To add to the speculation I think that API is not so fond of Radial taking their 500 rack concept one step further...

I think they don't like the idea that someone manages to bring a better rack to the market thus they are punishing that someone in a completely non-fair way.
sgmw
Thread Starter
#5
31st March 2012
Old 31st March 2012
  #5
Gear nut
 
sgmw's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Wellington
Posts: 127

Thread Starter
sgmw is offline
Yes, it could be that the omniport is the issue. Hard to be sure without the API side of the story.
#6
1st April 2012
Old 1st April 2012
  #6
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 174

sportyspice is offline
Nothing but the he said she said bullshi8t. Oh fred were have you gone!
#7
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #7
Gear interested
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Port Coquitlam BC
Posts: 13

DMFraser is offline
No hate. They declined our application. We would be happy to be a member. The workhorse is fully compatible with existing modules.
__________________
DM Fraser
Senior Engineer
Radial Engineering Ltd.
#8
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #8
Gear Guru
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,252
My Recordings/Credits

Jim Williams is offline
How is API supposed to know you may have used non-approved modules in their rack unless you tell them?
#9
19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
  #9
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
Doc Mixwell's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 10,041

Send a message via Skype™ to Doc Mixwell
Doc Mixwell is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
How is API supposed to know you may have used non-approved modules in their rack unless you tell them?
Obviously!

It just means, you cannot go barking up API's tree, when your shit doesn't act right from non-approved wares. If your non-VPR module, loads down your 1608's power supply, or it flips the console out, and you call API and tell them, to investigate the problem, in that your console is wigging out [possibly from a non-approved module] and you are looking for warranty support and help, its not on them. The way I see it, as long as the module in question works fine in the 1608, there is no reason to worry about anything. But API cannot honor warranty work, or damage to your 1608, caused by using any non-approved modules.
__________________
Adam J. Brass
DSPdoctor.com



__________________
If you enjoy reading my posts, please consider working with me and my shop DSPdoctor on your next studio upgrade

adam@dspdoctor.com

My Personal Web Page
#10
20th April 2012
Old 20th April 2012
  #10
Gear interested
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Port Coquitlam BC
Posts: 13

DMFraser is offline
Radial Module compatibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Obviously!

It just means, you cannot go barking up API's tree, when your shit doesn't act right from non-approved wares. If your non-VPR module, loads down your 1608's power supply, or it flips the console out, and you call API and tell them, to investigate the problem, in that your console is wigging out [possibly from a non-approved module] and you are looking for warranty support and help, its not on them. The way I see it, as long as the module in question works fine in the 1608, there is no reason to worry about anything. But API cannot honor warranty work, or damage to your 1608, caused by using any non-approved modules.
At Radial ensure all our modules will work properly with API and Purple racks. We have posistors on the power input lines so that even if the module shorted internally, the current draw is limited to about 135mA on most modules.

This feature is not found on many of the other modules on the market.

We would be totally shocked that if an unmodified Radial module damaged any rack on the market. We have never had a single case of a Radial module damaging a non-Radial rack OR a non-Radial module damaging a Radial Workhorse rack.

While we cannot speak for the policies of others, at Radial we have gone through much effort to ensure compatibility and reliability and we have no issues with any non-Radial 500 modules being used in our 500 series racks..
#11
21st April 2012
Old 21st April 2012
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,252
My Recordings/Credits

Jim Williams is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMFraser View Post
While we cannot speak for the policies of others, at Radial we have gone through much effort to ensure compatibility and reliability and we have no issues with any non-Radial 500 modules being used in our 500 series racks..
Which begs the question again, why does API not approve Radial's products when they have applied and done more than most to ensure their designs are compatible and not a problem?

Something else is going on here.
#12
21st April 2012
Old 21st April 2012
  #12
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Albany, New York
Posts: 11,356

joelpatterson is offline
That surely, surely, surely won't stand the light of day...
#13
23rd April 2012
Old 23rd April 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,884

Duardo is offline
Quote:
But Purple, A-Designs etc make competing products too, and they are part of it.
Purple does make a competing rack, but they are NOT part of the alliance. A-Designs does not make a competing rack...like Avedis and Empirical Labs they make a two-slot single-space rack, which is not something that API makes any more.

It's no secret that API will not approve anyone who does make a competing rack. The only other companies I can think of offhand who offer chasses that compete with APIT's rack or Lunchbox that come to mind (BAE and Tonelux) are not on the list either. I've had a pair of Purple preamps in my Lunchbox for years, and more recently moved over to a ten-space rack (which also now has a Radial EXTC in it) and have not had any issues at all.
#14
25th April 2012
Old 25th April 2012
  #14
Gear interested
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Port Coquitlam BC
Posts: 13

DMFraser is offline
API & Radial

While I am only here to answer technical questions, as far as I understand them, the issues are political, not technical. At Radial we know of no serious incompatibilities between the products of the various makers of 500 series gear.

The worst we have found is that some modules do not conform to the size specifications, mainly with screw heads that stick out too far. This makes them unable to be inserted properly between the guides we put in tray we include in the bottom of the Workhorse. Because of this we have made the tray easily removable.

To date no electrical incompatibilities have been reported between Radial racks and modules and those of other makers. Other than users of non-Radial racks are not being able to access the Omniport functionality of Radial Modules. However, the specifications for this are available on the Radial Engineering web site and we are seeing other makers start to adopt this function into their products.
#15
26th April 2012
Old 26th April 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
MonoBrow's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 2,291

MonoBrow is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackstallion View Post
Why is there some much blah blah blah about this type of thing? Let me get this straight, correct me if I'm wrong. API invents a successful piece of hardware. Radial rips off the idea, improves on it, cuts into API sales, and then wonders why API won't cooperate with them?

Hmm, seems pretty obvious to me.

Disclaimer: I own radial ABY, it's awesome.
Api made the 500 standart open.Nobody is ripping anybody off here....
#16
26th April 2012
Old 26th April 2012
  #16
Telling it like it is
 
ionian's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 3,701

ionian is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackstallion View Post
yeah, for modules bonehead, not the actual enclosure housing the modules (whether it's a lunchbox or console). radial has copied the lunchbox, etc.

if you cant distinguish the difference, then there's nothing else to really say.
If you can't have a better attitude when talking to other people, then there really is nothing else to say to you.

God, I really wish Gearslutz would not allow anonymity. They really should force people to use their real names to cut these kinds of rude replies out once and for all.


Frank
__________________
My equipment: A Commodore 64, 2 1541 Disk Drives, Dr T's Music Studio and a Casiotone CT-460.

www.frankperri.com

Never listen to opinions regarding gear. For every 50 nobodies on Gearslutz that say a piece of gear doesn't sound good enough to cut it, I know at least one somebody who is cutting it in NYC with that piece of gear.

...

www.diehipster.com
#17
26th April 2012
Old 26th April 2012
  #17
Telling it like it is
 
ionian's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 3,701

ionian is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackstallion View Post
side note:

Frank, I checked your website hipster.com ... people can judge for themselves on the merits of your disgust for rude comments:

"It’s hosted by a thick-framed eyeglass wearing blipster (black hipster)"

"F$cking pretentious child molester-looking bastards"

"Even until this day, the parents of these hipster f$cks can’t admit to their own kidults that they are f$cking failures"

"all the bearded, sickly looking, pretentious mother f$cking c$cksucking artisanal gentrifiers will be watching closely"

Actually no, my website is the one above it - Frank Perri - Musician Composer Keyboardist Copyist Arranger.

The other website isn't mine but since I've a lifelong New Yorker and have watched the mess hipsters have made of Brooklyn, I post that website in my link to show my disgust for hipsters. I am not affiliated with that site.


Frank
#18
26th April 2012
Old 26th April 2012
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,884

Duardo is offline
Quote:
i apologize for calling monbrow a bonehead. i think we can all distinguish a difference between making a module that works WITH an API product and making a unit that REPLACES an API product.
In this case, though, there really is no difference. The modules both work with and can replace API products, and the racks both work with and can replace API products. If anything, API stands to lose more money in module sales than then do in rack/Lunchbox sales, since most people have one rack or Lunchbox but several modules.

Remember, up until recently there was no VPR Alliance, but there were a handful of people making both compatible modules and enclosures. API made the decision not to officially let manufacturers who manufacture racks join the alliance. That's really all there is to it...I've never heard of any module from a reputable (but "unauthorized") manufacturer damaging an API rack or Lunchbox, although that certainly doesn't mean that it hasn't happened.
#19
26th April 2012
Old 26th April 2012
  #19
Telling it like it is
 
ionian's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 3,701

ionian is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
Remember, up until recently there was no VPR Alliance, but there were a handful of people making both compatible modules and enclosures. API made the decision not to officially let manufacturers who manufacture racks join the alliance. That's really all there is to it...
Exactly. the VPR alliance is nothing more than just another political platform for a company masquerading as a seal of approval. In other words, they tout the VPR alliance as something that us as audio consumers can believe in but instead it's just another way to push other companies around. It's either, you play our game or you don't get the seal of approval.

The VPR Alliance is nothing more than a joke.

Thankfully due to the proliferation of great sounding 500 series modules AND racks/power supplies by other manufacturers, I don't have a need for any API gear at all in my studio. And since I'm not a fan of how they do business, there will be no API gear for the foreseeable future at all at my place - there's plenty of great sounding pres, eqs and comps out there from everyone else for me to pick and choose from.

The Gearslutz community is the real VPR alliance to me. I trust my fellow gearslutz, and at times the manufacturers themselves, a lot more to let me know what modules or racks they've had problems with far more than I trust API.

Regards,
Frank
TRA
#20
30th April 2012
Old 30th April 2012
  #20
TRA
Lives for gear
 
TRA's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 906

TRA is offline
Kind of ironic...

I'm looking to get a Radial Workhorse and a couple of API modules. API playing political games just cost them a sale on modules. I'm going to pass on API and fill my Workhorse with other stuff.

Seems like a ridiculous political stance on the part of API.
__________________


#21
29th May 2012
Old 29th May 2012
  #21
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 210

eqverb is offline
Off Topic but ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
.... since I've a lifelong New Yorker and have watched the mess hipsters have made of Brooklyn, I post that website in my link to show my disgust for hipsters. I am not affiliated with that site.
Frank
COSIGN and +1000 !!!!!

Don't get me wrong now I do like Whole Foods, but as a "True" New Yorker and a Brooklyn Boy I couldn't agree with you more. That blog is hilarious.
__________________
"It's like a gold rush, the real money is supplying the spades and picks to the wanna be miners who hope to strike gold"
TMY
#22
30th May 2012
Old 30th May 2012
  #22
Gear addict
 
RFZ DUDE's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 374

RFZ DUDE is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post

The other website isn't mine but since I've a lifelong New Yorker and have watched the mess hipsters have made of Brooklyn, I post that website in my link to show my disgust for hipsters. I am not affiliated with that site.


Frank

you got it man, now that they must fear you all those w@nkers come over here to Berlin, as it looks.
#23
30th May 2012
Old 30th May 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
mirrorboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,287

mirrorboy is offline
Interesting thread:

For API to deny Radial (assuming there's no reason we haven't heard about yet) wouldn't that violate US Anti-Trust laws? It seems very counter-productive to the healthy competition that our economy thrives on.

Something doesn't seem right here...

Scott
__________________
Play what serves the song, not yourself.
__________________
www.thrivingivory.com
www.facebook.com/thrivingivory
www.facebook.com/scottleejason
#24
30th May 2012
Old 30th May 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,884

Duardo is offline
Quote:
For API to deny Radial (assuming there's no reason we haven't heard about yet) wouldn't that violate US Anti-Trust laws? It seems very counter-productive to the healthy competition that our economy thrives on.
No...why would it? It doesn't restrict anyone from using the two companies' products together. For years people were using non-API modules in their racks, and there was always the caveat that if there was a problem it voided the warranty. API decided to officially sanction modules and formed the VPR Alliance a few years back so that people could use other modules without voiding the warranty, but one of the conditions of joining the alliance was that you would not manufacture a competing rack. So there are a few companies (BAE and Purple come to mind, in addition to Radial) that do manufacture modules that are not part of the VPR Alliance. You can still use them in your API rack, just like people have been doing for years. You just won't have any warranty protection if something goes wrong (and I've never heard of that ever being an issue...not that it couldn't be, but it's certainly not a widespread problem).
#25
31st May 2012
Old 31st May 2012
  #25
Gear Guru
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,252
My Recordings/Credits

Jim Williams is offline
To sum it up:

1. The alliance is API's "good ol' boy's" club, behave and we will "let you in" if you don't manufacture a competeing product.

2. Radial makes a fine rack. No reason why you shouldn't consider using one.

Buy the Radial rack and mount your API modules in it. If one breaks, send it in to API for repairs but tell API you use an API powered rack.

Sometimes companies are too stupid for their own good.
#26
5th June 2012
Old 5th June 2012
  #26
Gear addict
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: The "other place"
Posts: 328

Bookerv12 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRA View Post
Kind of ironic...

I'm looking to get a Radial Workhorse and a couple of API modules. API playing political games just cost them a sale on modules. I'm going to pass on API and fill my Workhorse with other stuff.

Seems like a ridiculous political stance on the part of API.
I just got really sick of having to drive down there to API and have stuff fixed.
I bring a lot of my friends' broken stuff there too....So it's not just me.
I had another EQ crap out this week.
The Radial rack is awesome, and they actually have some pretty great modules.
#27
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #27
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: 500 series Guru SKANK! ; )
Posts: 11,516

Send a message via Skype™ to pan60
pan60 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgmw View Post
I bought a 500 Series Radial X-Amp a couple of days ago and was quite excited about putting in my API 1608.

I then get home and find out that API will void the warranty if any slot has a non-VPR compliant module it .

Radial write on their website:
"Although Radial has requested to become a VPR member, since we produce competitive 500 series power racks, our request was denied. And even though Radial is not a member of the VPR Alliance, we believe that the intention is good and valuable from a sales & marketing perspective."

Surely this defeats the purpose of having a standard? Fortunately I was able to return the X-Amp but what a PITA.
I do not know what is on the Radial web site nor do I care. The stuff I have seen I have no interest in.
I spoke with the man Peter himself before anything was ready and ask him if would entertain the ideal and he told me absolutely not! They did not need API's approval, I tried to explain what the VPR Alliance was about, but it was going no where so we moved on.
He also passed around emails trying to get others to form their own format and alliance, which I am not for. If you want to do your own thing that fine, but do not call it 500 format if you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMFraser View Post
No hate. They declined our application. We would be happy to be a member. The workhorse is fully compatible with existing modules.
just how many moduals did you send them, and why did they fail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
To sum it up:

1. The alliance is API's "good ol' boy's" club, behave and we will "let you in" if you don't manufacture a competeing product.
BULL SHlT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
2. Radial makes a fine rack. No reason why you shouldn't consider using one.
Matter of opinion. I think OSA also made an okay entry level rack when it was not corrupted with issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Buy the Radial rack and mount your API modules in it. If one breaks, send it in to API for repairs but tell API you use an API powered rack.

Sometimes companies are too stupid for their own good.
I would never condone dishonesty as a practice. Seems to show a measure of one's poor moral bearing to me.
Great ethics.
__________________
www.pan60.com

Pan60 Facebook Page

Pan's Facebook
BLAST PAD Inventor just one invention among others.
A CHARTER MEMBER OF THE 500 FORMAT, MAFIA


it is easy to sound as though one was endowed with great intelligence, whilst speaking amongst a crowd of total morons
#28
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #28
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: 500 series Guru SKANK! ; )
Posts: 11,516

Send a message via Skype™ to pan60
pan60 is offline
P.S.
Let's not forget the number of manufactures that simple fail and make no power supply, rack or so called lunchbox.
sometimes the gear just does not meet the demands
#29
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #29
Telling it like it is
 
ionian's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 3,701

ionian is offline
Naaaa... I think API is just another bullshit company that thinks consumers are too stupid to know they're being manipulated.


Regards,
Frank
#30
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
 
ambiguity's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Americas
Posts: 1,115

ambiguity is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan60 View Post
I do not know what is on the Radial web site nor do I care. The stuff I have seen I have no interest in.
I spoke with the man Peter himself before anything was ready and ask him if would entertain the ideal and he told me absolutely not! They did not need API's approval, I tried to explain what the VPR Alliance was about, but it was going no where so we moved on.
He also passed around emails trying to get others to form their own format and alliance, which I am not for. If you want to do your own thing that fine, but do not call it 500 format if you do.



just how many moduals did you send them, and why did they fail?


BULL SHlT

Matter of opinion. I think OSA also made an okay entry level rack when it was not corrupted with issues.

I would never condone dishonesty as a practice. Seems to show a measure of one's poor moral bearing to me.
Great ethics.
Are you not reading the same thread I'm reading? The rack is not failing, the modules are not failing, they work fine. Have you ever used the Radial rack? I sure would hope you're not overly opinionated about shit you have no experience with.

And what does anything have to do with other companies that don't make lunchboxes? You're implying that the Radial rack is not up to par, aren't you... very clever. Except now I know you've never used a Radial rack.

Enjoy your little ethics dreamland there, hypocrite.
__________________
A friend with weed is a friend indeed.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Jay Kahrs / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
129
Ntchi / So much gear, so little time!
4
Mike Jasper / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
32
Sir Bob / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
1

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.