Do I have a case against Musician's Friend?

[gabe32]

My friend recently told me of an error on MF. They had a 2000 dollar keyboard listed for 149 dollars, so naturally I bought three.

I received three order confirmations, and the money was taken off of my debit card.

Later today MF cancelled all three orders. Here are the policies I have found to be relevant, as posted by MF:

______________________________________________________
Accuracy of Content and Pricing Information

Because prices, product descriptions and availability can change quickly, Musician's Friend does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information provided on the Site. Also, Musician's Friend may make changes to the information contained herein, including to the products and prices described in the site, at any time, without prior notice to you (including after you have submitted your order). Information at this Site is periodically updated, but it may not be current or complete at the moment you visit this Site and may contain errors or inaccuracies. In no event shall Musician's Friend or its service or product providers be liable to you in any manner whatsoever for any decision made by you, or for any act or failure to act by you, in reliance upon information provided at this Site. If a product you purchase does not match the description on the Site, as your sole and exclusive remedy you may return the product, unused, to Musician's Friend and receive a refund of your purchase price.
Items in your shopping cart will reflect the most recent price displayed on the item's product detail page. Prices are frequently updated to adjust for different sales, limited pricing, and other discounting. Therefore, prices on the product detail page and in your cart may change after such updates to reflect the current prices. Placing items in your cart does not reserve the current prices shown at that time, and prices are reserved only by placing an order. From time to time, despite our efforts, a small number of the items in our catalog may be mispriced. Please note that such errors or inaccuracies may be related to product descriptions, pricing and availability. In the event of a pricing error, Musician's Friend will take one of the following options: (1) If an item's correct price is lower than our stated price, we will charge the lower amount and ship you the item; or (2) if an item's correct price is higher than our stated price, we will, at our discretion, either contact you for instructions before shipping or cancel your order and notify you of such cancellation. We apologize for any inconvenience. If you are not satisfied with your purchase due to any errors or inaccuracies, you may return it in accordance with our return procedure. Discounts are limited-time offers and are not valid with other offers.
For shipping, cancellation, and other ordering questions, please refer to our Online Customer Service page.
_________________________________________________

Obviously the second bolded part favors them, but the first one seems to favor me. I reserved three items, so aren't the prices reserved according to their policy?

I believe I have three things that help my argument: I received three order confirmations, the money was taken from my card and that statement listed above ("prices are reserved only by placing an order.")

Thanks for any help.

[JoRillo]

If they give you the money back, then no I don't think they are doing anything wrong. Mess ups happen, and as long as they don't rob you, I believe they are within legal limits to get away with refunding you.

[sleepingbag]

You are seriously considering pursuing a 'case' based on this? That's pretty ballsy.

Or something.

[Sounds Great]

No, I think you don't.

[gabe32]

Hmm maybe I don't. But what is the point of a "confirmation" if it can just be deleted on a whim? Also isn't this:

"Placing items in your cart does not reserve the current prices at that time, and prices are reserved only by placing an order."

a liability? Prices are reserved once an order is placed. My orders were placed, and I have three confirmations to prove it.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by gabe32

Hmm maybe I don't. But what is the point of a "confirmation" if it can just be deleted on a whim? Also isn't this:

"Placing items in your cart does not reserve the current prices at that time, and prices are reserved only by placing an order."

a liability? Prices are reserved once an order is placed. My orders were placed, and I have three confirmations to prove it.

I think you answered your own question with what you highlighted in their stated policy:

or (2) if an item's correct price is higher than our stated price, we will, at our discretion, either contact you for instructions before shipping or cancel your order and notify you of such cancellation.

[joelpatterson]

Sorry, Gabe-- sometimes, people don't use their turn signals, either-- they still make the turn.

[gabe32]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Sorry, Gabe-- sometimes, people don't use their turn signals, either-- they still make the turn.

Great, thanks Joel.

[RRCHON]

Depends on what state you live in and where the transaction originated and how much of a d-bag you want to be.

The municipality and state you file the grievance from is going to dictate how the purchase agreement is handled after payment, digital or otherwise had been taken, therefore the issue of contract of sale is already a moot point.

Remember the guy in Texas that used a chainsaw to cut out a giant coupon from a billboard that said - ' Choose any car on the lot for Free.' In the end he got his truck.

If it is worth it to you peruse this make sure you have a lawyer to fight all the change of venue motions, force process ect.... TBH you will probably spend more money on legislation by the time you are done than what you can potentially make from the acquisition and sale of whatever property it is you are after, unless of course you can handle all the filing, complaints and proceedings yourself (even then your time is worth something.)

[Ward Pike]

Musician's FIEND?

Good luck. You don't have a solid case and even if you did... well, good luck.

[MarvinDog]

There are a couple of flaws in your logic. The first is that according to the UCC (the basis of all contract law in 49 states), no business is required to honor any incorrect price due to a legitimate error.

The second is that in order to win a suit, you'd have to demonstrate that you incurred real damages. And not being able to buy something at a 92.5% discount, when no one else was able to buy the object at such a discount either, does not rise to the level of real damages.

Sent from my PG86100 using Gearslutz.com

[Kaoz]

Originally Posted by RRCHON

how much of a d-bag you want to be.

Pretty much this.

Is pretty sad tbh.

[jeremy.c.]

I'm pretty sure since they were acting in good faith and the sheer greed on the face of it going to court over this the judge would probably laugh at you and tell you to pay their legal fees.
Good luck either way!

[gabe32]

Originally Posted by MarvinDog

There are a couple of flaws in your logic. The first is that according to the UCC (the basis of all contract law in 49 states), no business is required to honor any incorrect price due to a legitimate error.

The second is that in order to win a suit, you'd have to demonstrate that you incurred real damages. And not being able to buy something at a 92.5% discount, when no one else was able to buy the object at such a discount either, does not rise to the level of real damages.

Sent from my PG86100 using Gearslutz.com

True, thanks for the well-informed post. My friend got a $50 dollar gift card out of doing the same thing, so that is the minimum I am shooting for.

What if someone did get it for the discounted price? Would I have a better case then?

[Dean Roddey]

Come the revolution, people who don't sell gear for 10% of its retail price will be up against the wall, maaaan.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by gabe32

True, thanks for the well-informed post. My friend got a $50 dollar gift card out of doing the same thing, so that is the minimum I am shooting for.

What if someone did get it for the discounted price? Would I have a better case then?

This is a trolling post, right?

[gabe32]

Originally Posted by jeremy.c.

This is a trolling post, right?

Nope, and it's not that big of a deal either. I know tons of people who have gotten things because of mislabeled prices actually. My friend bought 6 flat screen TVs at 200 dollars each (supposed to be 1000 each). They realized the error but he haggled them and was able to buy three.

So, I know I come across as lame or whatever, but tons of people bought this piano on MF today (I know because it became back ordered in the matter of minutes), so I am sure some people are haggling with MF. Just trying to get as much as I can.

Edit: Also, I am not arguing with some mom & pop store or anything. My friend got the TVs from Best Buy and I am dealing with Musician's Friend, so they can take the losses. Also, it kind of shows their incompetence (even after they were aware of the situation, the price listed on the page was still 149 for about 3 or 4 more hours).

2nd Edit: I am also pretty sure they removed their "Accuracy of Content and Pricing Information" tab right after the situation, which is also kind of fishy. It is back, but it no longer has it's own tab and I am not sure if it is edited from what it previously was when I first saw it. But still, kind of weird.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by gabe32

Nope, and it's not that big of a deal. I know tons of people who have gotten things because of mislabeled prices actually. My friend bought 6 flat screen TVs at 200 dollars each (supposed to be 1000 each). They realized the error but he haggled them and was able to buy three.

So, I know I come across as lame or whatever, but tons of people bought this piano on MF today (I know because it became back ordered in the matter of minutes), so I am sure some people are haggling with MF. Just trying to get as much as I can.

That's actually a bit of an understatement.
You deserve something because other people might be haggling?
That's just kinda weird.

[gabe32]

Originally Posted by jeremy.c.

That's actually a bit of an understatement.
You deserve something because other people might be haggling?
That's just kinda weird.

Thanks guy. I just joined this forum tonight to post this one little question. You have 202003 posts and won't leave me alone, so if anyone is weird here it is you. Please let the people who are actually discussing about this post. Thanks.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by gabe32

Thanks guy. I just joined this forum tonight to post this one little question. You have 202003 posts and won't leave me alone, so if anyone is weird here it is you. Please let the people who are actually discussing about this post. Thanks.

Hmmmm, well okay, just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean this isn't a conversation. In fact no one has really taken your side and you're still looking for something...

[gabe32]

Originally Posted by jeremy.c.

Hmmmm, well okay, just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean this isn't a conversation. In fact no one has really taken your side and you're still looking for something...

Not looking for anyone to "take my side" or be my friend or anything like that. There have been a few people posting actual information and not just posting to look cool/get their post count up.

So do you have anything to contribute, or...?

[Melodnb]

That policy is standard affair and this sort of thing happens quite often.

No you have no case.

[suedesound]

a) you do sound like a d-bag so it may work out for you if you really want to go through the trouble.

b) we're a bunch of jaded engineers on here so expect sarcasm, cynicism, suspicion etc.

c) sorry you didn't get your magic deal but i'm pretty positive they're in their rights here.

d) preemptive strike, i'm not trying to boost my post count.

e) not the best way to start on a site.

[gabe32]

Originally Posted by suedesound

a) you do sound like a d-bag so it may work out for you if you really want to go through the trouble.

b) we're a bunch of jaded engineers on here so expect sarcasm, cynicism, suspicion etc.

c) sorry you didn't get your magic deal but i'm pretty positive they're in their rights here.

d) preemptive strike, i'm not trying to boost my post count.

e) not the best way to start on a site.

Thanks, no problem. I'm not trying to start a fight here or anything, and I am certainly not looking to post here again (as I am not an engineer or particularly into gear or anything).

Just wanted to see if this had happened to anyone else before and/or see if anybody knew what the laws were on mispriced internet items.

[suedesound]

well then we're good. sounds like you got your answers. if you become interested in gear this site is great but some of us can be a bit snarky (myself included, obviously). we are an odd breed, sometimes senses of humor come off as complete insults, sometimes they are. good luck in all your endeavors good sir.

[Kaoz]

Originally Posted by gabe32

Thanks, no problem. I'm not trying to start a fight here or anything, and I am certainly not looking to post here again (as I am not an engineer or particularly into gear or anything).

Just wanted to see if this had happened to anyone else before and/or see if anybody knew what the laws were on mispriced internet items.

Protip - if you're looking for a career, I'd stay away from wanting to be a lawyer. While you've got the personality and instincts right, you may be missing other key traits.

A loan shark might be more up your alley.

Wait a minute - your last name isn't Bush is it?

[gabe32]

Thanks. I am actually in law school at the moment. Witty internet jokes aside, you guys seem to be missing my points. There is a phrase in their terms of use that goes like this:

"Placing items in your cart does not reserve the current prices shown at that time, and prices are reserved only by placing an order."

In my opinion, which very well may be incorrect, this is a liability for them. They themselves are saying the prices are fixed once I "place an order." I have three emails confirming that I placed three orders. Granted, I understand the order confirmations are automated, but what is the point in confirming something if it can simply be erased whenever they feel like it?

The only real problem I am facing is the statement " if an item's correct price is higher than our stated price, we will, at our discretion, either contact you for instructions before shipping or cancel your order and notify you of such cancellation."

Obviously, that is a speed bump. But I think with a little arguing, I may do some damage.

Wish me luck cool guys (obviously not girls) on this internet forum!! I know you'll be rooting for me. Thanks to the two or three people who actually contributed human thoughts.

[chrisso]

This thread encapsulates what is wrong with society.

Good thing lawyers didn't have a great reputation to begin with.

[gabe32]

Originally Posted by chrisso

This thread encapsulates what is wrong with society.

Yes, I completely agree. A handful of internet goons with millions of post on some internet forum not being able to respond without calling a poster names. Go outside, smell the fresh air!

You guys are very welcoming around here.

[Jamon]

Your wife is selling her car, and lists it online with a photo. Someone emails her, and asks how much she wants. She intends to write $4,500, but instead the email says, "I'll give it to you for $4,50". The buyer replies agreeing, and shows up with $450. Your wife is stunned, when they bring a letter from their lawyer, that says the email counts as a contract and she has to sell it for $450.

Is there a case? Maybe legally. But they knew it's an error, and were just trying to take advantage of someone else's mistake, as if it were a lucky lottery. This being your wife, how do you feel? Do you agree that there's a case? Do you want to see someone get off with a deal, at the expense of your wife? What about when it affects you both financially for several months, and makes her cry?

You said they made an error. You know it's not a fair price. You're trying to take advantage of someone else's mistake.

It's not obvious, but Musician's Friend is people. If all you see is a big rich corporation, then it might feel victimless, but it's only big and rich because it's made up of lots of people pooling their resources together. One of those people could be your wife. She might've struggled to get this job, and is new, so was more likely to make a mistake.

If you made a case, what you're doing, is firmly pressing against a group, using the power of the law, to force them to give to you unfairly, all because they made an obvious mistake, that you knew was a mistake, and wanted to exploit for your advantage.

What if you're at a party, and a hottie is intoxicated, and mistakes you for her boyfriend? Do you go along with her into the bedroom? Do you take advantage, of her mistake, fully aware that you're not her boyfriend? When she comes out of it enough to ask who you are, and tell you to leave, do you continue, because you won the lucky lottery?

Does this sound like the attitude and behavior of a good person? Do you want to be a good person? Do your friends and family respect this kind of gain? Maybe your friends look up to those who can get something, even at the expense of others. Even thieves can feel good about what they do, and have peers who support it.

It feels good, for you, but we have to think beyond ourselves. You shouldn't accept it even if they offered. You never should've ordered it. But if you did, because you genuinely wanted it, then you should've cancelled, returned, or repaid the difference as soon as you realized the mistake. Just because, that's the right thing to do.

Why is it right? Because, if it were your wife making the mistake, you'd feel the harm firsthand. Maybe it's not her this time, but it could be tomorrow. If we all are trying to take advantage of each other, exploiting innocent mistakes, then you're going to feel what it's like, because you're going to make mistakes too.

This time it might only be some money, and Musician's Friend might be able to absorb the cost of a few mistakes. But how much can they handle? Remember, it's just people. They can refrain from going to the movies this weekend, eating cheap noodles, but if people always take advantage, they might go out of business.

That doesn't mean some big corporation got what it deserved, it means people, grouped together, are at risk of death. Nothing is free, and people earn money to survive. You getting an unfair deal today might make your life a tad richer, but that means it is a tad poorer for someone else. If everyone does that, people starve.

It's a common attitude, and I hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you about this one incident. It's more the principle I'm worried about. This time, it might make you happy to get a special little deal, and not hurt Musician's Friend. Maybe it even makes you feel better about them, and do all your shopping there in the future.

But. If we take that same way of thinking, and apply it all the time, with lots of people doing it, then it could become dangerous. Would you rather live in a world where you accidentally drop a $100-bill and someone chases after you to return it; or they quickly stuff it in their pocket ready to make a case about "finder's keepers"?

We all know it's fun for the finder. But we also know, it hurts to be the weeper.