Do you have a friend/colleague who belittles your work?

[You_Father_Sky]

I recently had a friend and fellow producer tell me that a song I was producing "****ing sucked" and that their was "no talent in the writing whatsoever", and that he "expected better from me". We're both fairly established, myself a freelancer, he works at a big Toronto studio.

Now, I'm usually not overly offended by blunt opinions, but I have to say that this friend of mine has a bit of a history of doing this, so much so that I make a point not to show him stuff I'm working on, not that I have a particular desire to talk myself up anyway, but more so I stay away of distracting negative energy.

I feel that the music is good, the arrangement is good and the mix is great. It's not art music, it's in the vein of 80s G&R and Whitesnake, and it's definitely a clean 80s style sappy love song and production.

Beyond that, I always felt that as a producer and engineer it's my job to help artists realize their goals, to make them happy, and ensure that they do the best job THEY can. The client called me ecstatic about the sample I sent him, he told me that it was better than anything he could have hoped for and that I did a great job. Put a smile on face for the next 5 hours until said friend and I had a chat.

____

Opinions? Kinda bummed me out.

[LeMauce]

Been there...

Show your "friend" next time the paycheck that you got from your client....

The otherside "negative" feedback can help you some times to push your self to do things even better. But if its just random ranting with out any feedback... well just let it go. Spend your energy in sometime better men.

[Papanate]

I've not kept friends around who were that 'negative / emotional' about what I was doing.

It's one thing to critique a friends work and offer constructive reasons for the opinion - it's another to act like a 13 year old whiner and offer nothing except anger.

I would hate to be produced by someone like that - there is no path to improvement....and I would kick him off the project in a heartbeat.

[yotonic]

Hmmm. Maybe ask yourself why you care so much. The writing isn't a reflection on you. He should be able to dislike the writing without you being offended as a producer. And obviously his comment that he was surprised you took on the project is pretty snarky. He's probably trying to validate why working at a big Toronto studio isn't any more fulfilling than being a freelancer. I see that dynamic in the design business. Suck it up and keep banking.

[10 ton splash]

I get more perplexed by the ones who copy what im doing. I had a friend who would listen to what I was doing then go try to recreate it. lol. He than insisted he had more fans. Anytime I play a tracks for people and they ask me to rewind it. I cut it real quick. hahhahaha.

Where I come from thats called "being on your nuts". If your client likes it, well.....youre good.

[You_Father_Sky]

I care because outside of the context of our work, he is a very good friend and a very nice guy, albeit a little competitive. His opinion is something I respect, but on the other hand as was stated, he offered no constructive criticism, he didn't temper his disapproval with any positive comments on things that perhaps he did enjoy.

Just stuck it to me. And yes, he has expressed much discontent with his job for many reasons, the same reasons I turned down the job at the same studio.

Oh well, maybe I'll post it when I'm finished.

[joeq]

Did you write the song? Why are you taking the criticism of 'the song' and 'the writing' to heart?


One thing I don't understand is how he can 'expect better of you'. Did you seek out this client or did they come to you? Do you have so much work that you can afford to turn away 'inferior' artists?


did your "friend" say the production sucked? Did he criticize the mix?

There are some things you should take personally, some things you should take as 'advice' or 'constructive criticism', but in the end, if the person is consistently negative, you are right to keep him out of the loop of your works in progress.

He probably has a chip on his shoulder, or sees you as a threat.

"with friends like these, who needs enemies?"

[Bookerv12]

Yeah Man,

Those people are the ones who are threatened by what you are doing.
You will find that the best and most successful folks in this business are more tuned into the positives of a song, mix, etc.
Once they start getting bitter, stand back and look at them in the big picture.
Throw out the "You just don't seem to understand what we are after here". That will kill him.

[Resonance5]

Originally Posted by You_Father_Sky

Now, I'm usually not overly offended by blunt opinions, but I have to say that this friend of mine has a bit of a history of doing this, so much so that I make a point not to show him stuff I'm working on, not that I have a particular desire to talk myself up anyway, but more so I stay away of distracting negative energy.

____

Opinions? Kinda bummed me out.

avoid these people. at least when it comes to music.

often there might be some envy and some can't deal with it.

Just keep on going your way

a little story: this friend dj producer has little skills in mixing, but some fine ideas underneath.

most other producers would probably not be incouraging with him. instead i did, even if i didn't find his stuff to be perfect at times.

so i even mixed one of his tracks for free and guess what, it was played by some really big guy.

the mix was mine but the music was not. i couldn't do more then congratulate myself with him and encourage him even more.

screw people that put you down. its a golden rule

[Dan Korneff]

Originally Posted by You_Father_Sky

albeit a little competitive.

That's what it's all about... he's just marking he territory with bit of piss.
His comments arent anything that cant be taken care of with a Photoshop picture of him taking it in the ass by a huge donkey, circulating around the internet. Give that a try

[Fletcher]

My ex-wife was great at that!!! Pushed me to work harder and get better... even after I realized she was just doing it for sport, it still pushed me to do things better.

There was one year where it kinda got annoying so I assigned her the job of arranging backing vocals on a song I was producing... all of a sudden she shut up when she realized it was a little harder job than she thought it was... but that was just kinda temporary and like I mentioned earlier - I didn't mind it all that much because it pushed me to do better work.

FWIW - I'm never happy with my work... can't listen to the stuff for years [usually a minimum of 5] after its done without wanting to kick myself for not doing ____, or not spending enough time on ____, or a balance here, a tone there [etc., etc., etc.].

My clients are generally pleased with the work [I nod and smile and say thank you] - its just me [and for a good while the ex-wife] who don't like it all that much.

Don't know if this is really equatable to your situation... but I felt like sharing.

Peace

[Chris Lago]

Hey,

I'd say, stay away from those people, or just make sure they don't hear your work. I personally hate people who always try to One up others, I've cut all of them who used to do that to me. Do your thing and stay away from negativity.

[Sweep1]

Originally Posted by You_Father_Sky

And yes, he has expressed much discontent with his job for many reasons, the same reasons I turned down the job at the same studio.

Could this explain everything? He hates working where he does, and he knows you saw the problems and avoided them. So basically he resents the fact that you were smarter than him at seeing a potential problem, and he fell into that problem and now suffers for it. When he sees you his discontent comes back to him twofold, and he feels bad so he has to take it out on you.

Could it be that?

And bear in mind if it is, he may not be aware that's why he reacts the way he does.

[Sqye]

.

Do I have a friend/colleague who belittles my work?



Answer: I used to. I used to have many.

Now they're all buried in my yard.....

MWUAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHA

.

[Beat Poet]

It's usually just jealousy. There's someone I used to write/record with who failed to start up his own video business. I've made good money from online recording and continue to do so, but still he comes on MSN and says stuff like "yeah, but you're not making nearly enough". He didn't even start his video business.

[You_Father_Sky]

Thanks for all the constructive feedback, a lot of solid advice and experience here. That's the kind of thing I really appreciate.

[Ward Pike]

Cut ties with all negative people you can. I have to say, I spent some time working in that area also, and I have never experienced more arrogance and anti-everyone attitudes anywhere. I don't mind opinionated blunt people and I'm certainly not saying that everyone in the Toronto area is like it, but man, did I ever run across some real pieces of work! Gee whiz, NYC is more open-minded and friendlier.

Walk away from them. They're just not worth it.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

Cut ties with all negative people you can. I have to say, I spent some time working in that area also, and I have never experienced more arrogance and anti-everyone attitudes anywhere. I don't mind opinionated blunt people and I'm certainly not saying that everyone in the Toronto area is like it, but man, did I ever run across some real pieces of work! Gee whiz, NYC is more open-minded and friendlier.

Walk away from them. They're just not worth it.

I didn't want to say it but yep, you did, and that's exactly how I feel too. The Toronto area can be like that for sure, really cold and arrogant people at times. I've never had any problems like that in LA, hell they were giving me free champagne in the clothing store! How can that get any better?

[tonemaker]

People, babies, children, adolescents, and adults respond better to positive encouragement than to punishment or criticism (which can actually worsen any situation). Your friend/colleague is trying to do the right thing, but may actually be a toxicly bad influence on your mood and creativity and capacity to produce better material.

I think you should distance yourself from him and keep him out of your creative activities and works. Don't even involve him in any of it in any way at all. Instead, invite in the support and encouragement and more objective constructive criticism (criticism that is tactful and not hurtful, yet is honest). You can still be friends with him, but not in a creative partnership nor mentoring situation.

Positive and realistic influences will help your craft much more than "tough love" which can actually mess up your mojo/groove.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I like to have friends and clients be truthful with me. If they think my work is not good I would like them to say so upfront. The same goes if they think my work is great.

If they want to belittle me or criticize negatively everything I do then I may want to rethink my friendship with them and, as others have pointed out, not involve them in my creative life.

Some people are negative about everything. Nothing pleases them. They try to make life miserable for those around them buy negatively criticizing everything anyone else does.

You don't need negative people around you. Find some new friends that are trustworthy and truthful and I think you will be a lot happier.

FWIW and YMMV

[ljona]

This is quite obvious. This is a challenge to stand up for yourself.
Tell him what you feel without getting angry.
If you get angry you´re out of your element and playing his negative game.
Nothing scares people more than American Psycho-matter-of-fact talk
Trust me on this

[looneyjetman]

I tend to work with headphones most of the time now as I've got fed up of my other half walking past and telling me exactly how much whatever I'm doing sucks.

There's nothing like constructive criticism!

[kafka]

I wouldn't cut ties with a good friend who didn't like my work, but I probably wouldn't show it to them in the future, even if it's something we have in common. People are entitled to their opinions, even harsh ones. I might, for instance, find the way they conduct their office work to be useless and wasteful. I wouldn't necessarily share that opinion with them, but it doesn't mean I don't have it.

[joelpatterson]

EVERYbody should have some little politician inside them, veering them away from being too truthful about every last little qualm and complaint they have. On the other side of the fence, though-- don't take what other people say all that seriously, who made them some kind of authority on anything?

Pick your battles, too, that's also a useful motto. As an instance: there's a local newsmagazine/gig listing/website I contribute to, send links to videos and include little descriptive paragraphs. It's a funny sensation to see them edited-- sometimes they're just twisting it to fit their style, but sometimes I honestly think, "that's much more like what I really meant to say."

But then this guy sent me some mics to review, and the text I turned in was not at all what he was expecting--way too much in the way of stream-of-consciousness digressions and too little-- whatever, too little "Sound on Sound," for lack of a better term. In that case-- no, I wasn't going to change one word, thanks, if you don't want it I'll just go post it myself. On my favorite messageboard. So that was a case of: one of us is an idiot, babe. Let's each cast a secret ballot, eh?

[Happy Musicfan]

While I don't have an actual friend who belittles my work, I do have an imaginary friend who praises my work.

[kafka]

Originally Posted by Happy Musicfan

While I don't have an actual friend who belittles my work, I do have an imaginary friend who praises my work.

I talk to the neighbors dog, but if I tell you what he says, he'll kill me.

[ShadowAMD]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

My ex-wife was great at that!!! Pushed me to work harder and get better... even after I realized she was just doing it for sport, it still pushed me to do things better.

There was one year where it kinda got annoying so I assigned her the job of arranging backing vocals on a song I was producing... all of a sudden she shut up when she realized it was a little harder job than she thought it was... but that was just kinda temporary and like I mentioned earlier - I didn't mind it all that much because it pushed me to do better work.

FWIW - I'm never happy with my work... can't listen to the stuff for years [usually a minimum of 5] after its done without wanting to kick myself for not doing ____, or not spending enough time on ____, or a balance here, a tone there [etc., etc., etc.].

My clients are generally pleased with the work [I nod and smile and say thank you] - its just me [and for a good while the ex-wife] who don't like it all that much.

Don't know if this is really equatable to your situation... but I felt like sharing.

Peace

I actually wrote pretty much the same thing in another thread... I do need to stop this nothing is ever good enough.

Or I might as well slap on a straight jacket and jump in the looner bin now.