Recording engineers...

[kosmokrator]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

And you can get off my lawn while you're at it....btw, for "centred snare MUST be centred" read "mix buss compression MUST be left to the mastering engineer" and we have a case of Mr Pot waiting for Mr Kettle in reception...

I wouldn't say the snare HAS to be centred. But if someone's reference track for the mix has a centred snare, it would be nice if it were recorded that way. Obviously not appropriate for all genres...very appropriate for modern rock/pop. I think that's all the OP is saying, and I agree with him.

Thank you.
It seems not many people around here understand that as a pro (meaning being paid) mixer, you cannot just do 'how you feel it.' Neither can you rerecord the kit.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by kosmokrator

..can you PLEASE track Overheads so that the Snare is in the center?
PLEASE!!
I mean I don't even ask for Kick AND Snare in the center. That seems to be impossible to achieve today.

But the Snare, for god's sake!! You don't even need to be a recording engineer for that, 7th grade geometry is all you need!

****, I celebrate every centered snare I get as if it was a lottery win!


A pissed off pro mixer.

Originally Posted by Solidtube

Why should the snare be in the centre? None of the drum kits I've recorded has the snare in the centre.

Me, I tend to put the snare and kick in the center and the hi-hat (if separate mic or -- heaven forfend, drum machine ) just a bit to the right (I almost always mix 'audience view,' not 'from the stage view'). In fact, for most combo mixes or bigger, I tend to cluster the drums moderately tightly in the center... Rules are made to be broken, but one of my guiding rules of thumb is visualizing the band. So it's a rare mix from me that has around-the-kit rolls going from one speaker extreme to the other.

That said, I completely understand that, particularly in a minimal setup, drums may occupy a larger amount of the left-to-right space and, at some point as you 'zoom in,' the snare will be slightly to one side and the 'hat a little more to the side, looking at it from a perspective of 'realism.' But who said what we are doing is in any way real?

[Lord Alvin]

I agree! Start with it centered. You can always pan it later.

Craig Alvin on Recording Drums Well - YouTube

[Steve_B]

Originally Posted by kosmokrator

..can you PLEASE track Overheads so that the Snare is in the center?
PLEASE!!
I mean I don't even ask for Kick AND Snare in the center. That seems to be impossible to achieve today.

But the Snare, for god's sake!! You don't even need to be a recording engineer for that, 7th grade geometry is all you need!

****, I celebrate every centered snare I get as if it was a lottery win!


A pissed off pro mixer.

If all you are doing is mixing pre-tracked stuff, isn't this an occupational hazard?

Presumably you could always turn down tracks that do not meet your exacting requirements. Alternatively you could offer a recording service or centre the snare using time rather than amplitude based panning.

[Facepalm]

MIXING ENGINEERS
,..can you PLEASE stop panning my Overheads hard left and right?
PLEASE!!
They are supposed to be panned in a bit. That seems to be impossible to achieve today.

You don't even need to be a mixing engineer for that, 7th grade geometry is all you need!

****, I celebrate every sensibly panned kit I get as if it was a lottery win!


A pissed off pro recordist.

[kosmokrator]

Originally Posted by Facepalm

MIXING ENGINEERS
,..can you PLEASE stop panning my Overheads hard left and right?
PLEASE!!
They are supposed to be panned in a bit. That seems to be impossible to achieve today.

You don't even need to be a mixing engineer for that, 7th grade geometry is all you need!

****, I celebrate every sensibly panned kit I get as if it was a lottery win!


A pissed off pro recordist.

LOL, there's some truth to this.

But actually I wasn't talking about impeccably tracked Overheads where the snare is slightly off-centered, but phasey nightmare-tracks where the snare is WAY left and the kick WAY right.

Maybe next time I should pan the close mics to those positions and tell the artists/producer that I thought this was intended, because the overheads are like that.
You know, how I feel it..

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Granny Gremlin

Bob Rock did it in 94 (or maybe it was left; same difference). On The Cult (forget which track).

Geoff Emerick did it in 1964... its not a new concept.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

IV-I

.{snip}...

.



oh, no he DIDN'T ....(use the affirming plagal cadence - or at least two thirds of it!!)

haha....

.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Facepalm

MIXING ENGINEERS
,..can you PLEASE stop panning my Overheads hard left and right?
PLEASE!!
They are supposed to be panned in a bit. That seems to be impossible to achieve today.

You don't even need to be a mixing engineer for that, 7th grade geometry is all you need!

****, I celebrate every sensibly panned kit I get as if it was a lottery win!


A pissed off pro recordist.

.


RECORDING ENGINEERS AND MIXING ENGINEERS

,..can you PLEASE stop screwing up my music?
PLEASE!!
It's SUPPOSED to sound NATURAL and ORGANIC. That seems to be impossible to achieve today.

You don't even need to be an engineer for that, 7th grade geometry is all you need!

****, I celebrate every MUSICALLY RECORDED AND MIXED song as if it was a lottery win!


A pissed off pro artist.

.

[Ward Pike]

MIXING AND MASTERING ENGINEERS...

Have you ever heard of dynamics? Do you go around shouting and screaming every single utterance that comes out of your mouths? Do you also fart at 110 decibels?

When I put one of your mixes or masters back into PT for a look-see, it looks like a square or more appropriately - a FLAT LINE. Because you are all killing music.

PPP PP P mP Mƒ ƒ ƒƒ ƒƒƒ sƒz What do those little abbreviations mean?

[IdiotManchild]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

When I put one of your mixes or masters back into PT for a look-see, it looks like a square or more appropriately - a FLAT LINE.

Dude, that's because 7th grade geometry is all you need!

I prefer to get my mixes into a good rectangle shape before they're handed to the mastering engineer. He is then given the instructions to make it more rhombus-like. Preferably a purple rhombus that spins around and is surrounded by fog machines and stage lights (preferably Roboscans).

Works like a charm every time.

[imagineaudio]

Originally Posted by Facepalm

MIXING ENGINEERS
,..can you PLEASE stop panning my Overheads hard left and right?
PLEASE!!
They are supposed to be panned in a bit. That seems to be impossible to achieve today.

You don't even need to be a mixing engineer for that, 7th grade geometry is all you need!

****, I celebrate every sensibly panned kit I get as if it was a lottery win!


A pissed off pro recordist.

LCR mixing, my friend. If your overheads are sensibly tracked then panning them hard left and hard right should give you a good stereo image of the kit.

See this informative thread on LCR mixing.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by IdiotManchild

Dude, that's because 7th grade geometry is all you need!

I prefer to get my mixes into a good rectangle shape before they're handed to the mastering engineer. He is then given the instructions to make it more rhombus-like. Preferably a purple rhombus that spins around and is surrounded by fog machines and stage lights (preferably Roboscans).

Works like a charm every time.

.



.

[kosmokrator]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

MIXING AND MASTERING ENGINEERS...

Have you ever heard of dynamics? Do you go around shouting and screaming every single utterance that comes out of your mouths? Do you also fart at 110 decibels?

When I put one of your mixes or masters back into PT for a look-see, it looks like a square or more appropriately - a FLAT LINE. Because you are all killing music.

PPP PP P mP Mƒ ƒ ƒƒ ƒƒƒ sƒz What do those little abbreviations mean?

ARTISTS AND PRODUCERS....

Can you please stop crying about loud mixes/masters on forums and in actual life ALWAYS saying 'yeah, sounds great, love the dynamics, but can you make it a bit louder?'

[windmillsound]

Originally Posted by Solidtube

Why should the snare be in the centre? None of the drum kits I've recorded has the snare in the centre.

Well, when you sit a drum kit the snare is most likely on your left - but who says that the way the drummer is pacing is the axis? It all depends on where you view the kit from. It is perfectly straightforward to pick a line through the centre of the snare and kick and position mics either side of that line.

[windmillsound]

Oh, and the reason the kick and snare should be in the centre - well they are usually the loudest elements in the track, at least in modern pop and rock productions. So sharing them equally between the speakers makes perfect sense. Panned to one side aesthetically make the track lobsided, and technically, depending on the degree of panning, would make the track significantly quieter. Now if you are recording Jazz where the drums may not be mixed so loud then all bets are off.

[NorseHorse]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

...everything I do in 2012 will have the entire drum kit panned right...

+1



Pan it where it sounds good.

[Beat Poet]

It shouldn't really be a problem if the drummer has got a modest setup with the cymbals in logical places, so you can get the kick and snare centered without the cymbals sounding wierd. That was my problem anyway - if I got the kick and snare centered the crashes sounded strange, or if I got the crashes panned correctly the kick and snare were off. I solved the problem by getting the kick and snare in the centre and then physically moving the crash stands to where I wanted them in the overheads.

[tonemaker]

I like snare electro-acoustically in the center instead of on the side too, but the drummer can put the snare wherever he wants it spatially. Overheads are going to pick up the instruments wherever they occur. The engineer can adjust things only as good as his skills are and as good as the original mic-ing setup is.

Great Massenburg video! He's totally right! = LISTEN, don't be prejudiced by assumptions or visuals!!!