A Rant about false advertising and crap Q/A at Avid.

[Matt R]

Normally, I don't go out and write public rantings. In fact, I hate when most people do. I've seen a lot of people complain about Avid lately, especially before the HDX Cards were actually released. I've also seen a lot of those opinions flip the second the person got their hands on said HDX card. This rant will not be based around Protools 10 or HDX, but about misleading advertising practices by Avid.

First off, let's say that I've been using Protools since version 4.5. I actually really liked it. But, as time went on, I found that my own personal tastes and hardware selections made Cubase perfect for me. Six months ago, I was on the hunt for a new DAW and control surface. Since I have been using Cubase as my primary DAW for years, I selected Cubase.

Initially, I wanted to get the Mackie Control with expansion boards to bring it up to 24 faders. Everywhere I went to order them was out of stock due to a recent recall, and they were expecting new stock 2-3 weeks later. I figured I'd search for alternatives. My representative at Sweetwater suggested I look into the Euphonix controllers. They were definitely out of my budget at the time, but I said screw it and went for them anyway. They were boards I'd been looking at for a long time and finally had enough cash sitting around to purchase.

The first thing I came to note was that the LCD Screen on the MC Control unit was definitely very buggy. It tended to flash/flicker intermittently and some of the LED's on the unit itself also experienced similar issues. The MC Mix boards had no issues. I also noted that the box for the MC Control labeled V2 contained what appeared to be a V1 controller judging by the color on the plastic.

I installed the drivers and was pleasantly surprised by how responsive these boards were and how easy they were to configure. I installed the Eucon adapter for Cubase 6, fired up Cubase, and it worked! I was pretty damn happy. That's where it ended.

I unhooked everything in the testing location and moved it to a permanent home on a custom built desk. Once hooked back up, Cubase would no longer recognize the Eucon adapter. I reinstalled the drivers many times, reinstalled the operating system from scratch, and more. I couldn't get it to work again for the life of me. Being A+ and CCNA as well as an experienced software developer, you would think that I of all people could get this damn system to work properly. I just couldn't.

I attempt to get in touch with Avid, but I'm forwarded to a third party company that's fairly useless. They used Teamviewer to go into the PC and try and get it to work. I watched them do what I had done over and over again. The technician stated that they had issues like this all the time and that Cubase/Steinberg were at fault for the problems and that Avid wasn't pushing to get these issues resolved. Essentially, in the end, the company Avid hires to do their technical support stated that Avid wasn't fixing known issues and that even though Avids website stated that Cubase was supported, it actually isn't. Furthermore, there's no timeframe for it to be fixed.

That was six months ago.

As a result, and to save me $300 in restocking fees on a pair of $2700 controllers that are useless to me without a compatible DAW, I decided to suck it up and purchase Protools 9 to replace Cubase until everything is working. I was eligible for the free upgrade to Protools 10, so I went and took that as well.

Then, just a few hours ago, my iLok died. It's LED no longer lights up when connected to any computer. it turns on then dies less than a second later. They want me to authorize $50 to a credit card for a warranty repair, and they won't offer any sort of "zero downtime" plan for myself since I didn't pay for it. With what's essentially a brand new iLok, I shouldn't require some "zero downtime protection" plan.

Now I'm pretty shit out of luck on this one. I can't use Protools since the iLok is dead and they will take 2+ weeks to replace it (at cost to myself), and I can't efficiently use Cubase since the Eucon adapter for Steinberg software is broken.

I'm beyond unhappy with Avid and their choices. I don't feel that I should have been forced to go with Protools in the first place, nor do I feel like I should be stuck footing the bill on an RMA item (even if only temporarily). What I paid a LOT of money for should just work flawlessly until the day I decide to retire that hardware. I also shouldn't be forced into spending $2200 just to be able to mix surround sound in Protools 10, but that's another story…

Either way, I'm pretty pissed off with Avid. Their false advertising lead me to buy hardware that doesn't work the way they stated it did. Their included licensing hardware has failed on me after only 3-4 months of NEVER being moved around. At all.

Hopefully someone at Avid will notice this and step up to the plate to fix what's wrong. I doubt it, but it's worth trying. I'm going to email this same letter to their support department as well as mail it via certified letter to their corporate offices. I don't like feeling like I'm not a valued customer. I don't like feeling like another mark on the bedpost. I want what I purchased to work as advertised. Nothing more, nothing less.

[nedorama]

Did you bother to check any reviews, boards, etc. on whether other people were having problems with Cubase, your brand of PC and the Euphonix controllers? Before I buy gear, I certainly don't only listen to the manufacturer. In the case of your controllers, I'd be doubly nervous because up until last year, it wasn't an Avid product; the Euphonix team built them and wrote the code -- this would make me even more nervous to purchase them without fully researching reviews of them on alternate DAW platforms. I just did a quick Google and there are multiple articles talking about this problem going back to November 2010. If you didn't do your homework before buying that dollar amount of program, you've got no one to blame but yourself.

On the iLok, sh@t happens and that's why for studios that need it, they have and charge for the zero downtime program. I'm guessing you had your old iLok and just paid for the software updates. Mine died 5 years ago and i had to do the same thing.

Don't hold your breath on Avid reading anything here. If you have an issue and haven't done so, post in customer feedback as well as the DUC.

[Matt R]

Originally Posted by nedorama

Did you bother to check any reviews, boards, etc. on whether other people were having problems with Cubase, your brand of PC and the Euphonix controllers? Before I buy gear, I certainly don't only listen to the manufacturer. In the case of your controllers, I'd be doubly nervous because up until last year, it wasn't an Avid product; the Euphonix team built them and wrote the code -- this would make me even more nervous to purchase them without fully researching reviews of them on alternate DAW platforms. I just did a quick Google and there are multiple articles talking about this problem going back to November 2010. If you didn't do your homework before buying that dollar amount of program, you've got no one to blame but yourself.

I did my homework. Quite a lot of it. I came to find that while there were issues on getting it going in the first place, everyone was able to get it going and were able to do so very reliably after it was first setup initially. This lead me to believe that it may be a bit troublesome at first, but then it would be fine. However, I came to find it was exactly the opposite: It works perfectly for a period of 1-2 hours, then it stopped working altogether. Even on different systems and with OS reloads I was unable to get it working again.

You really can't put bad Quality Control and poor software design into my lap, especially when it was recommended by distributors who recommend system configurations on a daily basis. The guy I dealt with at Sweetwater has been nothing less than awesome with everything. The only thing that ever gave me issues were Avid products.

I will say that I love Protools 10. Too bad it's out of commission for the next few weeks.

Originally Posted by nedorama

On the iLok, sh@t happens and that's why for studios that need it, they have and charge for the zero downtime program. I'm guessing you had your old iLok and just paid for the software updates. Mine died 5 years ago and i had to do the same thing.

It's a brand new iLok. It came with Protools. If it was an old iLok, I'd have purchased a second one to sit on the side as a backup. It shouldn't have failed in less than three months of usage, especially since it's never been moved an inch since it's installation.

[rcb4t2]

Hey no comment on the rant side of things but can't you just buy a new iLok and have them transfer the licenses? Sorry to hear about all your problems.

[Convectuoso]

It's what Avid do best.

Make a product, market the **** out of it, charge way more than the market value for it, use the cheapest shittiest components available, then market the **** out of it some more, then make it unsupported at the end of it's life, even when there's no reason for it to not work, then make outright lies about sound quality differences between DAWs, then pay a bunch of pro's to lie some more in their marketing campaigns, then charge for two upgrades in the space of year to pay for said marketing campaign...etc etc etc

[AcoosticZoo]

Originally Posted by Convectuoso

It's what Avid do best.

Make a product, market the **** out of it, charge way more than the market value for it, use the cheapest shittiest components available, then market the **** out of it some more, then make it unsupported at the end of it's life, even when there's no reason for it to not work, then make outright lies about sound quality differences between DAWs, then pay a bunch of pro's to lie some more in their marketing campaigns, then charge for two upgrades in the space of year to pay for said marketing campaign...etc etc etc

lol

[Convectuoso]

The saddest thing is...I just can't work with out PT :(

[Convectuoso]

Also the Artist series is cheap Made in China (and if it isn't, it may as well be) usual suspect build quality.

I would estimate that the cost price on them is somewhere between $100-300.

[frans]

Matt, that sucks. Sorry for you.

But... you stumbled over two things:
A) Avid - are - not - good. They don't care too much about their paying customers.* Why should they? Oh, you mean, "reality", the consequences of what they do and all? No, they are too big for that. Nothing is on no consequences to noone. LITTLE companies work that way.

B) Advertising in big companies is so removed from reality because those who know what's going on aren't put together to tell the ad people what the should write, ad people haven't got a clue but still like to spend other's people big bucks to feel important

This isn't any solution to your problems, I know. But the "pro" in ProTools requires more than just the $ for hardware/software, it requires the resources to manage the trouble and invisible huge sums that go with these kind of situtations and it's one of the reasons big studios 100% deserve the big bucks they write on the bill.

*much like Adobe...or your goverment, or.... :-(

[Matt R]

Originally Posted by frans

Matt, that sucks. Sorry for you.

But... you stumbled over two things:
A) Avid - are - not - good. They don't care too much about their paying customers.* Why should they? Oh, you mean, "reality", the consequences of what they do and all? No, they are too big for that. Nothing is on no consequences to noone. LITTLE companies work that way.

B) Advertising in big companies is so removed from reality because those who know what's going on aren't put together to tell the ad people what the should write, ad people haven't got a clue but still like to spend other's people big bucks to feel important

This isn't any solution to your problems, I know. But the "pro" in ProTools requires more than just the $ for hardware/software, it requires the resources to manage the trouble and invisible huge sums that goe with these kind of situtations and it's one of the reasons big studios 100% deserve the big bucks the write on the bill.

*much like Adobe...or your goverment, or.... :-(

Well, I will say that I do like Protools quite a lot. I'm more comfortable with it in many ways over Cubase now, but I still don't feel like I should have been forced to switch just to keep the controllers. It just doesn't feel right.

Hopefully they'll fix it soon. I'm stuck paying the $50 for the iLok until they realize that it is covered under warranty, but still. The whole thing is just annoying and shouldn't have happened in the first place.