ReverbNation. LOL.

[ewegogetemtiger]

Half serious half comedy piece on climbing the charts at ReverbNation.

Psychopompos: How To Climb the Reverb Nation Charts

[kennybro]

Autological article.

[Freematik]

ReverbNation's charts are a joke. Look at the top ten artists in most areas, and these are usually complete no-names, that are just good at spamming people... the same types of bands that had tons of "friends" on myspace by using friendblaster, but no one has heard of them.

ReverbNation tries to get you to buy add-on products to improve your "chart position"... it is all a setup to get you to spend money to be "#1", even though that chart position is completely useless and sad...

That being said I am #106 in San Jose WOOOO HOOOO!!!!

-Tom

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by freematik

reverbnation's charts are a joke. Look at the top ten artists in most areas, and these are usually complete no-names, that are just good at spamming people... The same types of bands that had tons of "friends" on myspace by using friendblaster, but no one has heard of them.

Reverbnation tries to get you to buy add-on products to improve your "chart position"... It is all a setup to get you to spend money to be "#1", even though that chart position is completely useless and sad...

That being said i am #106 in san jose woooo hoooo!!!!

-tom

prue junk for real.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Freematik

ReverbNation tries to get you to buy add-on products to improve your "chart position"... it is all a setup to get you to spend money to be "#1", even though that chart position is completely useless and sad...

... in the days before digital distribution the spending for "chart position" was called "product promotion" which has been practiced by every label that ever released an artist at any time... as these bands you've never heard of are for all intents and purposes their own "indie label" they're just doing whatever they can to promote their product.

As they promote... guess what - they sell more... which leads to better "chart position". Think about it - after you see the names of these artists on the RevebNation charts - you've heard of them [even if you haven't heard them]. If it weren't for a "product promotion" campaign... you'd have never heard of Led Zeppelin, or Boston, or Marvin Gaye. If it there had been a proper "product promotion" campaign you would have heard of "Farrenheit", "Duke and the Drivers" or the "John Eddy Band".

Nothing is really different... only the scale is smaller... and the "grand prize" a fair measure less lucrative

Peace

[Freematik]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

... in the days before digital distribution the spending for "chart position" was called "product promotion" which has been practiced by every label that ever released an artist at any time... as these bands you've never heard of are for all intents and purposes their own "indie label" they're just doing whatever they can to promote their product.

As they promote... guess what - they sell more... which leads to better "chart position". Think about it - after you see the names of these artists on the RevebNation charts - you've heard of them [even if you haven't heard them]. If it weren't for a "product promotion" campaign... you'd have never heard of Led Zeppelin, or Boston, or Marvin Gaye. If it there had been a proper "product promotion" campaign you would have heard of "Farrenheit", "Duke and the Drivers" or the "John Eddy Band".

Nothing is really different... only the scale is smaller... and the "grand prize" a fair measure less lucrative

Peace

Fletcher, first of all it was great to meet you years ago at some random tradeshow, you are a baddass... but I gotta disagree what you are saying.. no this isn't the "same game" on a smaller scale... what Reverbnation does is called "selling the dream"... and the VAST majority of these bands at #1 aren't selling S**T!!!!

They get to this #1 position by playing the game of adding EVERYONE they can, and they just based on sheer #'s, and maybe by paying a little bit, they get the chart position... but Reverbnation is not radio, Fletcher, the difference is that fans don't listen to Reverbnation... the only people really on Reverbnation are other bands... seriously...

I get the philosophy of "paying your way"... trust me... the rap labels I do most of my work for all have publicists, spend money on radio, tours, etc. BUT REVERBNATION IS NOT AN AVENUE, IT IS A CASH GRAB, making money off people with the exact sentiment you have... but the people don't realize they are putting the money in the wrong spot, they need to put it into SEO, targetted ads, banners, in other words, THINGS THAT ACTUALLY WORK..

[scruffydog]

reverbnation makes it possible for people with networking skills and facebook friends to go to the top positions....
it really is a bullshit chart....
there must be a better way?
i could give a very expllicit example but why bother...
fletcher...if you are an ambitious and driven political type networker...you could easily get to No 1 in the smaller charts on reveb nation...
under a pen name obviously.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Freematik

Fletcher, first of all it was great to meet you years ago at some random tradeshow, you are a baddass... but I gotta disagree what you are saying.. no this isn't the "same game" on a smaller scale... what Reverbnation does is called "selling the dream"... and the VAST majority of these bands at #1 aren't selling S**T!!!!

Same thing that SeagramsVivendiWarner does - they sell the dream. First they sell it to an artist they think they can exploit - then they do their level best to exploit that artist via the various networks they've created. I remember being on an artist's bus I was working for [long and unrelated story - I normally rode on the crew bus] when we stopped for food on a long drive... the tour manager called into the band office during the stop and when we got back on the bus he said with some degree of pride "we've got the number 1 record in Saint Louis". Not much different - only its a bit larger scale.

They get to this #1 position by playing the game of adding EVERYONE they can, and they just based on sheer #'s, and maybe by paying a little bit, they get the chart position... but Reverbnation is not radio, Fletcher, the difference is that fans don't listen to Reverbnation... the only people really on Reverbnation are other bands... seriously...

What you're saying is that "other bands" are making these bands go to the #1 chart position. Interestingly - one of my daughters will send me a link from time to time to a band she's heard on ReverbNation that she thinks I might like. She isn't in a band, but she does love music. I mean what kid gets her Dad vinyl records as a holiday present - and what kid grins from ear to ear when she unwraps a "Captain Beefhart" original pressing -- bloody few, but they're out there and that's really who the audience is. The hope is that they tell two friends who tell two other friends and the next thing ya know... that #1 ReverbNation band is attracting SeagramsVivendiWarner to make a mass exploitation contract.

These days "A&R" is the street. The few record weasels I know that are still in the game wait to see what sells on a regional level before suggesting they "invest" in them. This shit isn't new... let's not forget that Nirvana was purchased from Sub-Pop Records... why? because they were moving product is why... and [I forget the name of the major] saw that the product was good and the seed had been sewn. They bought them, plugged the shit out them on MTV [I think that was the during the last 2-3 weeks when MTV still played music] and the rest is history.

Same shit with RN... the new and smaller - far more diversified promotion tool you [as an artist] have to work the shit out of to try to get two friends to tell two other friends who will hopefully tell a few more friends [lather, rinse, repeat until an "underground sensation" begins to occur].

I get the philosophy of "paying your way"... trust me... the rap labels I do most of my work for all have publicists, spend money on radio, tours, etc. BUT REVERBNATION IS NOT AN AVENUE, IT IS A CASH GRAB, making money off people with the exact sentiment you have... but the people don't realize they are putting the money in the wrong spot, they need to put it into SEO, targetted ads, banners, in other words, THINGS THAT ACTUALLY WORK..

OK - let's look at your premise - SEO, great thing... absolutely necessary to optimize at every turn... targeted ads, also a great thing - who do you target? Banners - where do you put them? How much do you have to pay for them?

It seems to me that ReverbNation gives you some form of platform to jump off and start to build your promotion as an artist. Its merely a vehicle to help all your other efforts start to take hold. They're not doing the work for you, but they do give you an avenue to get your work out to the world... at least from what I've seen... I could certainly be wrong.

When CD Baby started I thought it was a great idea. I was working with artists who couldn't get their stuff in stores... this was an avenue. When I worked for TuneCore.com it was a similar thing - a way to get your product onto iTunes when you [a guy sitting in his house] couldn't.

The rest - promotions, building "street teams", getting the word on the street that you even exist was still your problem - it seems to me that while RN is far from perfect it at least gives you avenues to start. The ability to get some kind of word out via their mailing lists - the ability to build some kind of website you can point folks to... "ReverbRadio" - kind of a way unsigned Pandora for some kind of exposure [though I REALLY wish there was a way [or a way I could find] that could get more "genre" specific - or "artists like ______" like Pandora].

Some day some one is going to come out with a really excellent solution to all of our collective promotion problems so our music can be heard by the right audience... in the meanwhile each imperfect stepping stone is an avenue toward getting to that ultimate solution.

We had "MySpace" for a minute which was about "networking" and gaining "adds" [not ads, but adds]... which went more general into Facebook which is also highly flawed... but better than MySpace... now there's Google's "circles" thing [which in my reality is about as useful as "LinkedIn" - in other words a waste of fvcking time that is more about you feeling good about your own personal little profile than any kind of actual "networking" thing... though it is possible to find some people you don't know but would like to try to gain access to... sorry, I have digressed to a point of near irrelevance].

Peace

[slaphappy]

ReverbNation is just another (basically free) tool that musicians have at their disposal. Choose to use it and gain more web presence, or choose not to and honestly, it's probably not going to have any negative effect.

As far as ego stroking and charts goes, whatever. If you're not out there in the trenches, getting dirty, sleeping in your car, playing gigs, then maybe (just maybe) you still have an ego to stroke. Good for you.

As for the rest of us, scraping it out in the real world, our egos have long been traded in for the reality of just trying to get gigs and make people happy.

You do realize we are in a service industry, right? (somewhere between waiter and masseuse). I'm sure ReverbNation fits in there somewhere as well.

ps- They do have some cool touring (map and date based) web plugins.

[Freematik]

@ Fletcher- Totally agree with your perspective... the one thing is that I don't think Reverbation's charts are a good tool to measure.... anything.... the metrics they are using are phony

From my experience I regularly see artists in the post-#100 position playing major club shows, selling CD's, etc. and I've also seen artists in the "top ten" position for cities that are non-existent outside of Reverbnation.

The problem is Reverbnation weighs heavily on metrics that do not represent actual popularity. And the system allows you to basically buy (or for the unemployed people, spam) your way up, so I see the top artists all the time that are most likely trust fund kids or meth heads that can spam 20 hours a day....

But yeah to some extent we all are guilty of selling the dream