The black keys are just jingle writers.

[boomer81]

So alot of my friends are into the black keys. im 30 im no kid but im not dead yet. but how can people act like this is some indie hipster cool band when the song lonely boy that was released a month or so ago is already in a ad.

and they have tons of songs in ads on tv shows etc. it totally kills a song for me when i hear it in a ad its a jingle, i associate it with said product. when i hear zeps rock n roll now i think of a car. what i hate is that i would probably like this bands music. but i cant get into it.

this is one of the biggest bands on the planet. they are on the cover of the rollingstone and spin. im sure they rake money off of touring. people do buy there albums they are mainstream. don't give me the downloading crap either. this band is making enough money without the ads.
THEY ARE JINGLE WRITERS PERIOD. THERE IS NOTHING ROCK N ROLL ABOUT THAT. STOP ACTING LIKE THERE SO DAMN HIP WHEN THEY SELL A SONG FOR A AD A MONTH AFTER RELEASE. THATS A *****

[jeremy.c.]

I guess that brings up the age old debate, can it be commercial and artistic?

Are they being recognized and rewarded for their art, or are they just being called art because others have placed value on them?

A bit of both I'm guessing.

[boomer81]

I have no problem with a band having commercial success. Thats different if the music is good and people buy it great. If you sell out madison square garden hell yes awesome. Thats part of being a good band. Not pimping your songs out.

What i dont like is all these hipster bastards acting like this is the greatest band ever etc. And this whole indie coolness associated with being a indie band. I dont think they should starve and i damn sure dont think they are.

Ive just never seen a band with so much underground love and indie cred. At the same time be total sellouts. Maybe its there fans that get on my nerves. Im mean your using hill country blues to hock a product. Thats not what that musics about man.

What gets me is that alot of the people who love this band. Are the same people who will bash lady gaga nickleback, creed and all those other suck ass bands. When the black keys are no different.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by boomer81

I have no problem with a band having commercial success. Thats different if the music is good and people buy it great. If you sell out madison square garden hell yes awesome. Thats part of being a good band. Not pimping your songs out.

What i dont like is all these hipster bastards acting like this is the greatest band ever etc. And this whole indie coolness associated with being a indie band. I dont think they should starve and i damn sure dont think they are.

Ive just never seen a band with so much underground love and indie cred. At the same time be total sellouts. Maybe its there fans that get on my nerves. Im mean your using hill country blues to hock a product. Thats not what that musics about man.

What gets me is that alot of the people who love this band. Are the same people who will bash lady gaga nickleback, creed and all those other suck ass bands. When the black keys are no different.

I listen to them and I kinda have to agree with the OP and with you. Usually the worst part of most artists are the fans. The fans have kinda ruined Lady Gaga, Adele and The Black Keys for me. It also went downhill for my love of Shiny Toy Guns when their song Le Disko was used for Motorola's Razr. It killed it for me, and it's slowly doing the same for The Black Key's songs. Everytime I'm watching a movie, I have to hear "Howling For You" in at least one scene... It becomes too much. Over-exposure can be a bitch. I only listen to Adele's first album now since I don't remember it being played to death on the radio... Hometown Glory is an incredible song (I will admit I shed a tear almost every time I hear it)!

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by boomer81

Ive just never seen a band with so much underground love and indie cred.

huh? the black keys? ok

[Animus]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

I listen to them and I kinda have to agree with the OP and with you. Usually the worst part of most artists are the fans. The fans have kinda ruined Lady Gaga, Adele and The Black Keys for me. It also went downhill for my love of Shiny Toy Guns when their song Le Disko was used for Motorola's Razr. It killed it for me, and it's slowly doing the same for The Black Key's songs. Everytime I'm watching a movie, I have to hear "Howling For You" in at least one scene... It becomes too much. Over-exposure can be a bitch. I only listen to Adele's first album now since I don't remember it being played to death on the radio... Hometown Glory is an incredible song (I will admit I shed a tear almost every time I hear it)!

Man, she sort of ripped off Sia's Breath Me track, defintiely can tell it was inspiration.

[Iamcory]

the closest show they came to here was Minneapolis, and it was 80+ a ticket.
I figure if they have that much money, why jack the prices up so much?
But i already know the answer to that,... because they can.
needless to say it sold out.

[Iamcory]

I paid 30 dollars to see 311, Pepper, and The Offspring.
And thats a much better show in my opinion!

[Rikharthu]

Selling out - unfortunately most current musicians don't think twice about it. "Oh yeah, silly kids back 20 years ago hated it. But we're more adult and realize it's part of the process. It's all just business. Nothing wrong with it." **** that. No imagination. No wonder modern music sucks.

Hate me.

[kennybro]

It's a multi-media world. Get used to it.

The phrase "sell out" only had a definable meaning (and only relating to a particular culture) through the 60's. By 1970 when media cross promotion really took off, the phrase became meaningless.

Since about then, the goal has been to "sell out." I believe that most acts who profess that they will never "sell out" are hoping to create a giant buzz by saying that.

And if "sell out' means that the music was used to sell a product, how many counter culture BK fans are walking around sporting Black Keys tees that they bought in the lobby of a show?

It's perfectly legit.

[chiimba]

I was listening to the Black Keyes' last night on my drive home from a friends. I like their music and couldn't lump it in with Nickleback at all even though I guess I understand where you're coming from.

They have the same core sound they started with; which is just blues riffs / simple backing drums / and his nice bluesy very distinguishable voice. Over time I think he's become a better hook writer; but the same basic approach and musical feel is there to me. Their new CD's have a couple songs with different instrumental approaches / and seem to get a little outside the formula of just writing around a single blues riff; which I like because as an artist I'm always trying to expand & diversify my songwriting and enjoy when other bands do the same...or else it all gets bland to me.

Nickleback to me is just a pop ballad writing band that doesn't experiment at all, has cheesy lyrics, incredibly predictable song structures, and similar instruments from song to song. Also, when they came out there were a lot of bands and are a lot of radio bands that sounded like them / it was obvious to me they were going for a radio sound...it's not like they did anything new at the time they just were good at writing cheesy pop ballads. When the Black Keys started they at least had a unique sound to what was popular music at the time...blues like theirs has been done before but not in the exact way they do it. They didn't conform to a radio sound...they created a sound and the radio eventually had to conform to it because enough people liked it.

At this point everyone seedms to label things differently..what's "indie" or "cool" to enjoy.. I don't really care I just search for music that I enjoy and adds value to my musical subconscience; and ignore musice that I find as a waste of space in my mind.

I also think of "selling out" as selling out your artistic approach to song writing / performing / recording / etc. Or to write with only the intention of commercial success and ignore what you actually enjoy or want to express. I don't think the keyes have done that. But that's just my opinion.

[boomer81]

As far as music goes i would much rather listen the the black keys than nickle back for sure. but that's not what my point was. and as you said you understand that. it's just they are really not that different. one writes songs with the intention of commercial success. one writes more original music but does not mind selling it.

As for the we live in a multimedia world get over it. artist sellout,and calling a artist a sellout is out of fashion and so 1992 or whatever. thats total b.s. it's greed. $80.00 concert tickets and seling your music in a ad a month after it comes out is greed.

What im getting to is this. They may dress different and sound different. one may be selling it for crack on a street corner. and one may be marrying a old rich man for money. and you can clean her up and take her home to mamma. And put it in the back of your mind, because you love her.
but a wh0re is a wh0re is a wh0re.

ive said what i wanted to im over it. i will not post to this thread, that i started again. my moan is over.
(or should i say my black snake moan because they sold a song for that movie also) And i feel better. End of thread for me, if ive offended anyone im sorry. thanks to all

[elambo]

Sorry, but this has to be pointed out. Definition of a sell-out: a fan whose opinion of the band is NOT based upon the music itself but upon the band's commercial success, or lack thereof.

This has always been true. Some fans prefers that their band remain exclusive. When everyone else jump in they move on. It's odd.

I do understand your point, but you have to ask yourself, "did I like that song BEFORE I heard it on TV?"

[chiimba]

I think I get your gripe. It's just all subjective. Selling your music to be used in an ad may be artistic compromise / selling out to one person; and to another person it is a celebration of their music and a way of getting it to another audience. A lot of indie bands I've heard in Apple commercials probably got bigger audiences by selling to ads; whereas they may have been more obscure otherwise.

Just depends on each person's goals and approach with their own music. If they aren't compromising themselves and enjoy the platforms at which they distribute their art; then they aren't selling out imo.. but the only way to know that would be to ask each of them. So in that regard, i disagree that a wh0re is a wh0re is a wh0re.

If the only way to not sell out was to never ask for any $$ then we would have missed out on a lot of great music that only existed in people's minds/ garages / houses. And if a little $$ is ok to not be a sell out, then who decides how much?

[krusty]

Mainstream? Indie? Jeesus. These words have no meaning whatsoever except in the minds of idiot hipsters who think that to be cool, a band must be broke and only their little circle of idiot hipster friends must be the only ones to have ever heard of them. Bands get popular because they write memorable songs. Popularity and success is the goal of every artist. Get over it. What's truly a shame is that it took a Volkswagen commercial to bring Nick Drake's truly great work back into the public consciousness. It deserves to be heard, but the hipsters cried foul.

What's certain is that if a band does not become popular, no matter how much you and your friends like them, they won't be around long for you to enjoy anyway. Sorry, but the hipster attitude just pisses me off.

[mattqualls]

dude, seriously? If you could make good money by making genuine music that you love wouldn't you do it to? the black keys turned down a huge sum of money to put a song of theirs in a mayo commercial in england a few years back.. When every album is available for any bozo to download via the internet for free, you've got to get creative.

[kennybro]

Originally Posted by elambo

Sorry, but this has to be pointed out. Definition of a sell-out: a fan whose opinion of the band is NOT based upon the music itself but upon the band's commercial success, or lack thereof.

This has always been true. Some fans prefers that their band remain exclusive. When everyone else jump in they move on. It's odd.

I do understand your point, but you have to ask yourself, "did I like that song BEFORE I heard it on TV?"

Name one continuously successful band that, you can conclusively state, did not eventually base some element of their songwriting on satisfying their fans, or the market's, expectations.

[RhysC]

Originally Posted by boomer81

Ive just never seen a band with so much underground love and indie cred.

I don't know what your idea of "underground" is, but the Black Keys ain't got no indie cred where I'm from, they're pretty much a mainstream band. In fact, with some friends of mine, the phrase "What is this BS, it's like the Black Keys" has become a standard insult for boring generic rock music.

[MyCadaverDog]

Originally Posted by krusty

Mainstream? Indie? Jeesus. These words have no meaning whatsoever except in the minds of idiot hipsters who think that to be cool, a band must be broke and only their little circle of idiot hipster friends must be the only ones to have ever heard of them. Bands get popular because they write memorable songs. Popularity and success is the goal of every artist. Get over it. What's truly a shame is that it took a Volkswagen commercial to bring Nick Drake's truly great work back into the public consciousness. It deserves to be heard, but the hipsters cried foul.

What's certain is that if a band does not become popular, no matter how much you and your friends like them, they won't be around long for you to enjoy anyway. Sorry, but the hipster attitude just pisses me off.

Very well said.

[suedesound]

just in case it wasn't realized by some people they've been around for quite some time. i wouldn't consider myself a fan but i like some of their older lofi stripped down stuff. i could see their "true fans" thinking they "sold out", the new stuff is very different and much more commercial. maybe they just got sick of years of struggling and wanted to finally make some money? i can't really blame them for that. i was a fan of jimmy eat world for probably ten years before they saw any commercial success, i wasn't pissed about it in fact i was happy for them.

i have a funny story about the black keys from a venue i used to work at but i'll save it for another post.

[sleepingbag]

Honestly, I think it's petty bullshit to think that bands should turn down good money and exposure in the interest of not... oh no!... being called a sell out! What is the issue? That you can't be a real artist and be alright with having your music 'exploited' for commercial purposes? Well, I guess we need to put an asterisk next to Stevie, Ray, and MJ's names in the record books. You know, somehow, their legacies have survived untarnished.

Especially with how little money musicians are getting these days, you have to have a little understanding that we live on this earth for one short moment and it doesn't do us or our families any good to go out of our way to remain obscure until death when there are people out there who would reward talent. For any band, a few grand and national exposure in exchange for having their hipster-cred 'tarnished' should be a no brainer. It makes me happy as hell when I hear bands I like in ads, I think, "Yeah! Get paid!" I heard Caribou in a Dunkin Donuts commercial a few years ago, it was such a treat to hear that coming out of the speakers totally unexpectedly. And I think DD coffee tastes like shitting piss. But you know, maybe some music director at the ad agency they work with has good taste and got a band that they like PAID. That's what matters! Every band sells out by releasing music to the public, to be bought. The good ones know how to use the system to their advantage---- why do the Black Keys feel like such a huge band right now? Because they're playing stadiums and you hear them on TV all the time. "Your Touch" was on Eastbound and Down, that's the first time I heard a song from them that really caught my attention.

[Plush]

I luv it that their success has given them the high profile to attract selling music to ad agencies. These days you don't make a living on selling records alone. You don't even make it touring. You cover all the bases. It's not a sell out in any way to my way of thinking.

[jb_studio]

Originally Posted by Plush

I luv it that their success has given them the high profile to attract selling music to ad agencies. These days you don't make a living on selling records alone. You don't even make it touring. You cover all the bases. It's not a sell out in any way to my way of thinking.

I strongly agree -- JB

[baskervils]

The whole concept of selling out and going commercial is something that we musicians need to get over.

Selling ANYTHING is good. Making money from art is good. We deserve it. We live in a capitalist society (well, most of us do).

It's OK to have a music career.

And honestly, for the past 12 years, the most interesting new music that I've heard has been in commercials, not on the radio.

[Animus]

One of the reasons Moby got mainstream success was because of all his licensing, not the other way around.

[kennybro]

Originally Posted by baskervils

The whole concept of selling out and going commercial is something that we musicians need to get over.

Selling ANYTHING is good. Making money from art is good. We deserve it. We live in a capitalist society (well, most of us do).

It's OK to have a music career.

Agreed. The concept of "sell-out" is whacked from the get. What's being protected? Some indefinable parochial definition of artistic integrity? Or is it the elitist, aggrandized self-image of a limited group of fans?

Originally Posted by baskervils

And honestly, for the past 12 years, the most interesting new music that I've heard has been in commercials, not on the radio.

Ain't it the truth!

And at the bottom line, The "won't sell out" approach is usually just another marketing style aimed at attracting the largest possible marginalized audience.

[chiimba]

Originally Posted by RhysC

I don't know what your idea of "underground" is, but the Black Keys ain't got no indie cred where I'm from, they're pretty much a mainstream band. In fact, with some friends of mine, the phrase "What is this BS, it's like the Black Keys" has become a standard insult for boring generic rock music.

I'm just curious in what context someone would say that or what radio rock band they would compare to the Black Keys?

I can see people making that comment about a radio band that sounds like Hinder / Nickleback / Papa Roach / Shinedown (the generic similar rock sound I hear on southern radio in the few times I've checked) .. but as of right now I don't know of another band trying to be or sound like the BKs that is on the radio. (...getting a little off original topic.)

[suedesound]

damn it! i just typed up the whole story and accidentaly deleted it before posting. long story short they were playing together with king khan and bbq as one band, i wasn't there but heard the story from multiple staff and friends attending. came on completely wasted, everyone was horribly out of tune and off time and they drunkenly jammed for awhile. got in a fight over the mics with the foh engineer. someone got naked and stuck a 58 in his ass. they got kicked off stage when one of them pissed on a monitor. they also came out with a full bottle of whiskey and was handing it out to the front row (several underage people, abc in sf is pretty strict especially on all age venues).

we had a wall in the staff room of thank you letters and signed posters and what not from bands that have played there in the past. not long after there was the most hilarious apology letter from them basically begging for forgiveness and singing praise to the club for putting up with it, offering to pay for any damages incurred etc.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by kennybro

Name one continuously successful band that, you can conclusively state, did not eventually base some element of their songwriting on satisfying their fans, or the market's, expectations.

None, but that was in no way the point I was making.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by chiimba

I'm just curious in what context someone would say that or what radio rock band they would compare to the Black Keys?

I can see people making that comment about a radio band that sounds like Hinder / Nickleback / Papa Roach / Shinedown (the generic similar rock sound I hear on southern radio in the few times I've checked) .. but as of right now I don't know of another band trying to be or sound like the BKs that is on the radio. (...getting a little off original topic.)

Well there was the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. Kind of the same vibe really.