Why the hate on mainstream music?

[pqlia]

Originally Posted by Happy Musicfan

There is also gloss in the mixing and production, daggnabbit pqlia.

billboard top 40 - YouTube

Call it shellac, or sheen, or gloss, but it's there.


The songs and the sounds, for the most part, are frivolous, glossy and exquisitely polished - yet conceptually, musically, emotively and artistically vacuous. Ooooh, the nihilism of conformist, corporate copy & paste.

Optimists ? Forgive my pessimism, please, I beg of you. Don't hate me for my dislike of megadoses of autotune, or my dislike of the absence of raw, natural organic instrument/vocal sounds, or my dislike of 127 tracks smeared digitally, or my dislike of strictly adhered to compositional formulas or my hunger for genuine musical dynamics. You see, I've been self-indoctrinated by the sounds and songs of the 1960's, 1970's and early 1980's and this has compelled me towards what is nothing less than an allergic reaction.

billboard top 40 - YouTube


<HA - CHOOOOOO !!>

Ok, ok ok! We’re not going to heal the world by debating about gloss or the absence therefore. It doesn’t help that I’ve been so objective and reasonable throughout this entire thread – (the reason I have been is because I think it makes for a better debate to put personal taste issues aside so the point at hand can be properly debated) But now for a brief moment I shall climb down from my fence on objectivity.

In many dance music genres of 10, even 15 years ago – we community studio guys use to lust after those dance tracks which were produced by the ‘big boys’ – we talked about depth, quality of treble – not just amount and frequency, we talked about silkiness and airiness of the top frequencies, absence of grain, vocals which sounded massive - which filled the speakers, sounding wide and broad, bass that sounded round and smooth and kick drums which sat snugly with the bass, having sub frequencies which seemingly went down and down for ever. We marvelled at mid range which was open, smooth and not constricted. In the UK especially, we were crazy for these sound attributes and it was commonly accepted that it was the trademark US sound of the big studios. NOW that overall effect is what I would call GLOSS! We bought BBE, Enhancers, all manner of psychoacoustic trickery boxes to try and emulate that sound but in the end we realised that it was only by years of experienced mixing and mastering and some uncompromising esoteric tools that sound could be authentically replicated – you couldn’t fake it!

Now we same guys (not just me) are all discussing commercial dance music – asking what on earth is happening? Over processed 909 kits which people believe sound big but in actuality sound painfully small on most small speakers. Hard glassy treble, Glass is not gloss! Sounds which kind of sound as though someone hasn’t considered the relationship of one timbre to the next – they’re all just ‘there.’ That curious thing with snares – a fellow muso said he could remember the last time he heard a decent snare in ‘RnB’ one that didn’t sound thin, aggressive, abrasive – and not intentionally so!!! etc.

Its commonly accepted among my peers that present engineering in many dance genres is at a low and yet I keep on reading people describe modern production as polished and glossy???

I suppose in a way it is glossy if it’s compared to well, say…. Sandpaper.

Right, now I’m climbing back up onto my objective fence – this is my first and only rant on this thread – surely I can be granted just one rant?!?!

[Happy Musicfan]

Around here, you grant the rant's yourself !

Hey, this is the place for venting from all angles - so do it !

pqlia, if you can't hear the gloss, shellac, sheen or smear, then you've been blessed with a different perspective than others. Sometimes the above 4 become so loud and aggressively in our face that we think it's fuzzy, farting and buzzy instead of polished and sparkling. That's the nature of individualism I guess.

Cheers !


Btw, another term for the common sound of pop music today is ''hyper-processed''.

[pqlia]

Originally Posted by Happy Musicfan

Around here, you grant the rant's yourself !

Hey, this is the place for venting from all angles - so do it !

pqlia, if you can't hear the gloss, shellac, sheen or smear, then you've been blessed with a different perspective than others. Sometimes the above 4 become so loud and aggressively in our face that we think it's fuzzy, farting and buzzy instead of polished and sparkling. That's the nature of individualism I guess.

Cheers !


Btw, another term for the common sound of pop music today is ''hyper-processed''.

That was a very reasoned response to my potentially thread derailing rant!

I wont take the thread of into a tangent with my definition of gloss – so I’ll be brief.

I think the essential difference in our perception of ‘gloss’ is that to me it was something most elusive and desirable in our ‘era’ – but not everything had to have that sound – it was a production decision in the studio to try and emulate that sound or keep things sounding a little rawer depending on the track.

Conversely, you have described ‘gloss’ as something very disagreeable and irritating, which kind of suggests to me that the gloss you’re referring to is not the same gloss I refer too. To me much of modern dance has an extreme absence of gloss, there is little which is unobtainable about it’s sound, no elusive magical sheen, no shimmer. Just abrasiveness, hardness, smallness, glassiness etc etc etc.

I really will shut up about this gloss now…..

Not another word….

[pqlia]

Before I climb back on my objective fence… just one more thing… I promise.. then I’m out of here.

I mentioned the importance of ‘concepts’ earlier on in this thread, I really am not smart enough at present to figure out why it is that SOME music of ‘the good old days’ appears to SOME to be superior to what’s GENERALLY happening now. Now, not everything has to be conceptual or even has to have any type of thought beyond a very superficial level but I’m wondering if there was more variety in approaches to pop music in past decades than there is at present, sure there was the likes of Black Lace with ‘Agado’ yet coexisting were some pop songs which were just that little bit more clever, thoughtful…dare I say conceptual.

I’ll name a few old songs from the top of my head – they're really not likely to be the best examples but here goes – (and forget for a moment about style or taste)

1. Stevie wonder – Rocket Love (whether it’s to your taste or not) consider the lyrical subject of unrequited love, consider Stevie’s decision to reference classical romantic strings then hear how those strings are orchestrated using descending scales to express ‘falling’ or an anticlimax at the end of the chorus. Just one small glimpse at why he’s heralded a genius
2. Sting – Still know nothing bout me (whether it’s to your taste or not) consider the concept of the song, that you can investigate me all you want (indefinitely, infinitely) but you can never know me as much as you try – then listen to the chord progression in the chorus over the words ‘still no nothing bout me’ – then listen towards the end of the song how those chords repeat over and over but the actual chord progression sounds like it has no end – it goes on and on seemingly into infinity – thoughtful, intelligence, intention.
3. Ella Fitzgerald – Everytime we say goodbye - (whether it’s to your taste or not) listen what the chords do under the words ‘how strange the change from major to minor’ – simple yet extremely clever and you wonder how you didnt think of it first?!?
4. Madonna – Material Girl (whether it’s to your taste or not) I really am no fan of her!! But listen the mechanical vocal delivery and production on the chorus. I read an article by the production crew who said that they tried hard to play every instrument in a mechanical deadpan fashion to 'express' (- ironically) the lyric
5. Michael Jackson – Scream (whether it’s to your taste or not) look at how that video has been artistically directed in light of the lyrical theme
6. Michael Jackson – Thriller (whether it’s to your taste or not) not my favourite Jackson song but although it’s light hearted and fun the production is extremely considered and conceptual

Now this very quick list isn’t a list of obscure art school underground music – it was mainstream pop in its day. I know that not everything necessarily has to be this clever or considered in pop music but when I was a kid with aspirations to be a songwriter it was this sort of artistic intelligence in mainstream music which I marvelled at.

I don’t want to be arrogant and say that modern mainstream is devoid of artistic intelligence… I’m just saying that I personally haven’t heard anything for a long time which made me wish that I had thought of it first.

I think that’s my last word…

I'm out of here...

[audiogeek]

Originally Posted by LimpyLoo

You should install that google thing on your computer.

He said it in reference to literally millions of people being completely devastated over the break-up of the Beatles.

P.S. Your posts, coupled with your avatar, have led me to the conclusion that you are 100% a troll.

I can see why you'd think that about robertshaw, but believe it or not I'm pretty sure he's the real deal. No one can maintain a troll persona for that long without cracking. And once in a while he actually says something i agree with! Sometimes it's best to just grab some popcorn and enjoy.