Login / Register
 
Angry customers prayers are being answered. Avid is now listening.
New Reply
Subscribe
#61
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #61
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Up here
Posts: 7,302

elambo is offline
As a bystander, I see a pattern. Those who are directly involved in the upgrade conundrum, whether they need to or simply want PT10, have the right to complain, but more importantly they understand the dynamics fully and are informed in their objections to Avid's practices. Those who judge the Occupy Avid members, best I can tell, aren't directly in their shoes, they're merely complaining about the complaining (Pot, this is Pettle... Kettle, this is Pot...). It's a strange anthropological study, this thread. Guy A bitches and moans merely because Guy B is bitching and moaning about a cause with which he's uninvolved. Guy B can't see the irony, or self-defeat.

As an operator of and adviser to 6 or 7 HD studios, the $1,000 upgrade price is offensive and divisive. We paid $350 a pop to jump to PT9 less than a year ago. There isn't $1,000 worth of NEW functionality within PT10 as compared to PT9, but they're choosing NOW to introduce such a price because it coincides with the switch to AAX and they can prey on their user's fear of obsolescence. Meanwhile, where is 64-bit???

This is the reality for me and my mates. It isn't debatable. As composers - users of various intense virtual instruments - we NEED the RAM ceiling lifted. "You don't need to upgrade... what you have isn't broken..." Bullshit! Sticking with antiquated samples doesn't work in a business where newer and better is required to stay on top. Budgets are being cut. We must find new ways to do more with less, and that means better, RAM-hungry samples. That means 64-bit.
#62
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #62
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Up here
Posts: 7,302

elambo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinPottyMouth View Post
In the end all I want is for Avid to be fair about their pricing and be up front with us.
I thought your goal was obvious from the start. You methods may have been more severe than some, out of necessity, but that doesn't make you a bad guy. I give you credit for hanging tough, and for outlasting your critics, most of which do not share your particular perspective and have no say. I don't know what your plan is, but if you feel that your gripe is legit (and I agree that it is), stick with it!

I understand because my options are to either ditch ProTools entirely or pay the piper. Paying the piper, in my situation, would be a rather serious investment in a platform I'm less and less comfortable with. And so we're being pressured into option A. And that comes after having invested five-figures in Avid equipment several times over. Loyalty? I'm not feelin' it. You apparently aren't either, and your moan is legit.
DustinPottyMouth
Thread Starter
#63
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #63
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 47

Thread Starter
Send a message via AIM to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via MSN to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via Yahoo to DustinPottyMouth
DustinPottyMouth is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
I thought your goal was obvious from the start. You methods may have been more severe than some, out of necessity, but that doesn't make you a bad guy. I give you credit for hanging tough, and for outlasting your critics, most of which do not share your particular perspective and have no say. I don't know what your plan is, but if you feel that your gripe is legit (and I agree that it is), stick with it!

I understand because my options are to either ditch ProTools entirely or pay the piper. Paying the piper, in my situation, would be a rather serious investment in a platform I'm less and less comfortable with. And so we're being pressured into option A. And that comes after having invested five-figures in Avid equipment several times over. Loyalty? I'm not feelin' it. You apparently aren't either, and your moan is legit.
http://www.steinberg.net/en/newsande...ffer-1771.html

The best money you ever spent! No joke.
WDM
#64
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #64
WDM
Lives for gear
 
WDM's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 551

WDM is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinPottyMouth View Post
http://www.steinberg.net/en/newsande...ffer-1771.html

The best money you ever spent! No joke.
Well, now I am really laughing :D

I've been in Cubase camp and I left it after i calculated my bottom line for all those Steinberg upgrades, add-ons and other packs. They still charging $1800 for Nuendo? Damn that should be really good then. The only thing is changed I hope now, they're providing both Mac and Windows platform in one box. Do they? Or I still have to pay twice?

Well, these debates could go on and on... Once again... The bottom line is: "you vote with your money".

Not after you've purchased something... That's too late! Before that.

Do your homework, it's your money after all.
Ask questions... Listen to answers... and make up your own mind.
That's what we all are doing here.

Don't act like a baby afterwards: "Daddy... cry ... i don't want that toy anymore... give me another one, because i have my birthday only once per year... cry .... you have enough money... cry..."

All jokes aside -
there is no one perfect solution for everybody. It's all changing all the time. Now Cubase, Protools tomorrow, Reaper in a year, then back to Cubase again, while they're eager to still stay in business, and so on.

There are consumer rights and there are obligations. But there is a difference between problem solving and whining. You seem like a knowledgeable guy, but still you're doing things first and then? Or... is that a new marketing trick?

Didn't mean to lecture you... Peace
__________________
You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do.
#65
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #65
Gear addict
 
NotchontheRocks's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 493

NotchontheRocks is offline
As much as everyone is pointing fingers at Avid and calling their business practices unfair, you really have to think about the big picture. Avid is not the only company that intentionally hinders software releases and gives no price breaks to loyal customers. It's been a common business practice for years across all industries and products, not just recording. So you can blame Avid and point fingers, but they're just following a successful, common business model, which is to reel in the customer to the point where they no longer want to buy outside products and nickel and dime them to death. I really do see your points and gripes, but I'd be surprised to see Avid change their ways anytime soon. The only real solution is to stop buying from them, which we all know is quite difficult.
#66
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #66
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Up here
Posts: 7,302

elambo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotchontheRocks View Post
The only real solution is to stop buying from them, which we all know is quite difficult.
Another option is to raise awareness and create a movement which makes price Natzee-ing unappealing for Avid. If we sit back and take it, as you suggest, they'll not only win with their greedy tactic but will take it one step further next time. And if we take that lying down you can be sure it'll be yet another step in the wrong direction the 3rd time. In board meetings, they ask, 'what can we get away with to increase profits?' Consumer's tolerance, price justification, and especially pacifism, are poisons for this problem.

If you've seen the news over the past 5 years you might understand why the tolerance of corporate greed isn't a wise stance.
DustinPottyMouth
Thread Starter
#67
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #67
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 47

Thread Starter
Send a message via AIM to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via MSN to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via Yahoo to DustinPottyMouth
DustinPottyMouth is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM View Post
Well, now I am really laughing :D

I've been in Cubase camp and I left it after i calculated my bottom line for all those Steinberg upgrades, add-ons and other packs. They still charging $1800 for Nuendo? Damn that should be really good then. The only thing is changed I hope now, they're providing both Mac and Windows platform in one box. Do they? Or I still have to pay twice?

Well, these debates could go on and on... Once again... The bottom line is: "you vote with your money".

Not after you've purchased something... That's too late! Before that.

Do your homework, it's your money after all.
Ask questions... Listen to answers... and make up your own mind.
That's what we all are doing here.

Don't act like a baby afterwards: "Daddy... cry ... i don't want that toy anymore... give me another one, because i have my birthday only once per year... cry .... you have enough money... cry..."

All jokes aside -
there is no one perfect solution for everybody. It's all changing all the time. Now Cubase, Protools tomorrow, Reaper in a year, then back to Cubase again, while they're eager to still stay in business, and so on.

There are consumer rights and there are obligations. But there is a difference between problem solving and whining. You seem like a knowledgeable guy, but still you're doing things first and then? Or... is that a new marketing trick?

Didn't mean to lecture you... Peace
Dude.... I think protools 9 had cubase 5 crushed which is why I bought it. I hated the 5.5 update and what it did to the my display but it got resolved. Cubase 6 just straight up has all the tools I need though and quite honestly you don't need nuendo for anything really. Most people only think they need nuendo cause they started out on a pirate copy of nuendo 3(which at the time was the only real way to get the advanced fades and the drum editor).Simply put, back then cubase wasn't the same but its definitely been awesome the whole time. Since the release of cubase 4 the cubase line has inherited alot of big features, plugins and then some. I can quantize an entire drum track of real or fake drums in like 10 minutes. I can hit replace a whole track via midi in 10 seconds flat with pretty impressive results. They include all kinds of great sounding plugins(love rev x) and best of all they dont eat up my cpu headroom like protools. Cubase and Nuendo are almost the same program minus some post features. Nuendo does however get more prompt updates I've noticed and thats fine because its 3 times the price. Simply put you dont need it(nuendo) to do sick recordings anymore.

I can run the same session I do in protools with literally 3-4 times the amount of plugins running in real time. If I ever find myself at too much of a loss its very easy to freeze(make a rendered version of the effected track). My technique is different from alot of people in the fact that I am specifically opting out of what most consider traditional technique so I can do my recordings the way I do. I literally emulate entire bands drums, guitar amps, bass rigs, post processing and everything with under 2ms of latency in realtime on ALL my records. You could NEVER expect protools 9 to do that. When pt actually goes native 64 I'm sure it will speed up cause they can start over and write their code for this century(that was a pun). Also cubase 6 is 64 bit native by default and that applies to mac as well while not hindering hindering compatibility. I can run the same sessions in cubase 6 64bit that I can in 32bit. I can also load cubase 6 sessions in cubase 5 without issue. The designers write the code to support this so I simply expect it from others at some point. It supports all the current operating systems and wont fight you to install it on older ones for the most part. Cubase 6 might act funny on windows xp if you got it to work but thats because it was design for windows vista/7 and mac os x. Then to top it off its 500 dollars regular pricing. I havent even scratched the surface of the editing tools but you are more than welcome to research more on your own.

Quite honestly, there is a lot of DAW's I like and its not relevant to this argument unless I'm comparing how well they supply support to me as a customer via software. Love it man, you would too. I seriously urge you to do your research. Cubase 6=protools hd native on steroids imho therefore its the most sane choice for me. I dont subscribe the consumerist idea that more expensive or hand made outright makes something better or more reliable. Its really just a subjective thing. Regardless if steinberg did that and you wanted to heckle them or not you have the right to, and I support that. I'm sure you think occupy wallstreet people are whining too, but I disagree there as well. I'm whistle blowing on their bullshit my friend. People have the right to protest, so do you. Very clever words my friend, but I'm never going to give this up.

I've been appalled for years by digi/avid convincing so many intelligent people that they were the most powerful tool by being in cahoots with the music colleges. Just because the russians beat us to space doesnt mean their rocket can take us to the moon. Also the claim that its industry standard is just a clever slogan and couldn't' be further from the truth at this point. I guess you can justify it or demand they stop insulting your intelligence. HD and TDM sound the same as vst/au but they cost 3 to 4 times the price and dont really do anything better than a vst or au could natively with software that is efficient . Sure you might say low latency.... I'm saying you dont know what low latency is until you have a sick interface and beastly computer running cubase 6. Now if price isnt a factor I guess we could start making comparisons but I'm not going to defend something that is clearly inflated in value(protools hd) because the truth is its just software. You wouldnt be dealing with that issue if Avid was only in the business of software, but I personally think of them as a wanna be apple corp in the music business. They dont have the style or grace that apple does though and that is why they are going to fail as a company if they dont pull their heads out of their asses soon.
WDM
#68
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #68
WDM
Lives for gear
 
WDM's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 551

WDM is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Another option is to raise awareness and create a movement which makes price Natzee-ing unappealing for Avid. If we sit back and take it, as you suggest, they'll not only win with their greedy tactic but will take it one step further next time. And if we take that lying down you can be sure it'll be yet another step in the wrong direction the 3rd time. In board meetings, they ask, 'what can we get away with to increase profits?' Consumer's tolerance, price justification, and especially pacifism, are poisons for this problem.

If you've seen the news over the past 5 years you might understand why the tolerance of corporate greed isn't a wise stance.
The profit is the only "movement". It's a public company.
The profit drops... "wait... wait ... we got HDX now"
DustinPottyMouth
Thread Starter
#69
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #69
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 47

Thread Starter
Send a message via AIM to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via MSN to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via Yahoo to DustinPottyMouth
DustinPottyMouth is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotchontheRocks View Post
As much as everyone is pointing fingers at Avid and calling their business practices unfair, you really have to think about the big picture. Avid is not the only company that intentionally hinders software releases and gives no price breaks to loyal customers. It's been a common business practice for years across all industries and products, not just recording. So you can blame Avid and point fingers, but they're just following a successful, common business model, which is to reel in the customer to the point where they no longer want to buy outside products and nickel and dime them to death. I really do see your points and gripes, but I'd be surprised to see Avid change their ways anytime soon. The only real solution is to stop buying from them, which we all know is quite difficult.
You dont want to mix politics in this with me, so I'll spare you. That being said anyone is allowed to call them out as a company. What they do will have an a direct effect on the industry so its worth my time. We're at a pivotal moment in technology my friend. This is the part where instead of hardware growing faster the software does. Just watch what happens over the next 5 years alone, because it'll happen over night or appear to. You can hinder technology but it will still be developed on time. Do you get what I mean by that? There is a trajectory already established for these things and you can clearly see that using the law of accelerating returns. My smartphone is more powerful than my dual xeon workstation was in 2001. Just think about the implications for a moment..... No matter what any gear head wants to believe the software one day will out do everything you thought was impossible for software to do, because eventually that software will be merging with us. We're not talking about 100 years of growth like you've experienced in the past because its growing exponentially. Try more like 20,000 years but you dont have to believe me. Just read up on it and start recognizing how different technologies will change our way of life. The future we talked about all through the 90's is taking place now.
DustinPottyMouth
Thread Starter
#70
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #70
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 47

Thread Starter
Send a message via AIM to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via MSN to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via Yahoo to DustinPottyMouth
DustinPottyMouth is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Another option is to raise awareness and create a movement which makes price Natzee-ing unappealing for Avid. If we sit back and take it, as you suggest, they'll not only win with their greedy tactic but will take it one step further next time. And if we take that lying down you can be sure it'll be yet another step in the wrong direction the 3rd time. In board meetings, they ask, 'what can we get away with to increase profits?' Consumer's tolerance, price justification, and especially pacifism, are poisons for this problem.

If you've seen the news over the past 5 years you might understand why the tolerance of corporate greed isn't a wise stance.
I agree and thats why I am doing this.
WDM
#71
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #71
WDM
Lives for gear
 
WDM's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 551

WDM is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinPottyMouth View Post
HD and TDM sound the same as vst/au but they cost 3 to 4 times the price and dont really do anything better than a vst or au could natively with software that is efficient . Sure you might say low latency.... I'm saying you dont know what low latency is until you have a sick interface and beastly computer running cubase 6. Now if price isnt a factor I guess we could start making comparisons but I'm not going to defend something that is clearly inflated in value(protools hd) because the truth is its just software. You wouldnt be dealing with that issue if Avid was only in the business of software, but I personally think of them as a wanna be apple corp in the music business. They dont have the style or grace that apple does though and that is why they are going to fail as a company if they dont pull their heads out of their asses soon.
You forgot to mention that Avid produces also a hardware.

It's not about HD sounds the same or not. It's about building and operating the integrated solution, stable and expandable. Avid has it, Steinberg has not.
As well as Apple has it and Microsoft has not.

You can buy Apple + Avid and you're done.
Or... you can buy Microsoft, Dell, Motu, Cubase, UAD... and still not be done.
and when you'll need extra 8 Ins/Outs next year... oh shit ... what now?

Some people prefer the first route, some prefer the second.
It seems to me, when amount of money reaches some magic number, people starting to prefer the first one over the second

See what i mean? That's the difference.
DustinPottyMouth
Thread Starter
#72
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #72
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 47

Thread Starter
Send a message via AIM to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via MSN to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via Yahoo to DustinPottyMouth
DustinPottyMouth is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM View Post
You forgot to mention that Avid produces also a hardware.

It's not about HD sounds the same or not. It's about building and operating the integrated solution, stable and expandable. Avid has it, Steinberg has not.
As well as Apple has it and Microsoft has not.

You can buy Apple + Avid and you're done.
Or... you can buy Microsoft, Dell, Motu, Cubase, UAD... and still not be done.
and when you'll need extra 8 Ins/Outs next year... oh shit ... what now?

Some people prefer the first route, some prefer the second.
It seems to me, when amount of money reaches some magic number, people starting to prefer the first one over the second

See what i mean? That's the difference.
I do see what you mean but the first part is simply not true. Steinberg does manufacture hardware, and directly supports yamaha units as well. Microsoft also makes hardware, just not to the extent that apple does. I understand the need for full integration and I would certainly call my setup that. I went from having a really pricey setup down to a smaller more streamlined one on purpose but that wont work for everyone because I am targeting specific genres with my production. That doesn't make it right for others though.

Seriously go checkout my work on the link above and tell me that wont go head to head with anything else on the market. I did that all that stuff with cubase. The only record I ever mixed with protools was TRAM. I have endorsements for plugins so I don't trip about that, but other than that my setup would only cost me about 10 grand to rebuild. I could do similar results though even with a 1000 dollar setup because it is within my abilities. The software is just a tool, and you are right in regards to it being a subjective opinion in the end that determines what is right for each person.
#73
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #73
Gear addict
 
NotchontheRocks's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 493

NotchontheRocks is offline
Quote:
You dont want to mix politics in this with me, so I'll spare you. That being said anyone is allowed to call them out as a company. What they do will have an a direct effect on the industry so its worth my time. We're at a pivotal moment in technology my friend. This is the part where instead of hardware growing faster the software does. Just watch what happens over the next 5 years alone, because it'll happen over night or appear to. You can hinder technology but it will still be developed on time. Do you get what I mean by that? There is a trajectory already established for these things and you can clearly see that using the law of accelerating returns. My smartphone is more powerful than my dual xeon workstation was in 2001. Just think about the implications for a moment..... No matter what any gear head wants to believe the software one day will out do everything you thought was impossible for software to do, because eventually that software will be merging with us. We're not talking about 100 years of growth like you've experienced in the past because its growing exponentially. Try more like 20,000 years but you dont have to believe me. Just read up on it and start recognizing how different technologies will change our way of life. The future we talked about all through the 90's is taking place now.
I never said you weren't allowed to call them out as a company, but do you think they really care what is being SAID if the same people that complain continue to BUY their products? That was my point. They've reeled in their customer base so that they can get away with lackluster, pricey upgrades. That's what companies do. Not just in the recording industry either - anything from cell phones to video games. The only way Avid is going to change their ways is if a large portion of their loyal customer base stops buying their product, and even then, they'll only care if that group is larger than new or potential customers.

And if you think I am siding with Avid, you're wrong. I'm just saying that there is no easy solution to this problem from the consumer's standpoint. Sure, Avid could start releasing good upgrades for a low cost to loyal customers, but they aren't going to if their current behavior remains profitable. It also doesn't help that PT is referred to as the "industry standard" and remains a big marketing point for studios, which makes it even more difficult to simply stop buying their products.
#74
2nd December 2011
Old 2nd December 2011
  #74
Lives for gear
 
RRCHON's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 733

RRCHON is offline
There is nothing wrong with a client/customer expressing his disappointment with a corporation or product when they feel slighted.

It's not only his right to complain when he feels slighted, it his duty. He's not doing it violently, he is not incinting anyone to hurt anyone else by any means other than by taking their money elsewhere.

If everyone in the world only sent angry letters when they were upset, think how much better this world would be. If you are not happy with after purchase service for any product you should complain. Lots of companies use the signal to noise method to respond to complaints, you are not only doing yourself a favor when you complain you are ultimately helping the people you complain to by giving them feedback and by keeping them honest you keep them in business.
#75
2nd December 2011
Old 2nd December 2011
  #75
Gear addict
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 438

Ran_ks is offline
Quote:
You can buy Apple + Avid and you're done.
Or... you can buy Microsoft, Dell, Motu, Cubase, UAD... and still not be done.
and when you'll need extra 8 Ins/Outs next year... oh shit ... what now?
You can buy Apple + Apogee and you're done. Or you can buy Microsoft + Steinberg and you're done. Yes, Apple + Avid is a pretty stable setup, but its not like you need it to do professionnal music. It's funny because the no1 album in Japan charts today is produced by someone who write, arrange, record, mix and master all in Cubase (with RME interface last time I checked).
#76
2nd December 2011
Old 2nd December 2011
  #76
Lives for gear
 
Halloween's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,052

Halloween is offline
This is what newbs do. They cry. Can't afford the upgrade? Dont upgrade. This is the same mentality of the generation X occupy crowd. Its just annoying. If I dont like something, I don't use it. If I don't like someone. I stay away from them. But alas this is what babies do, they cry. I also want to point out how useless this whole thing is. Avid is a company, not your partner. I've gotta go troll the Ford Motors forum because the Raptor is too expensive.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com
__________________

The mix is ALLLLLLLLLLMOSSSTTTT 'perfect'.
#77
2nd December 2011
Old 2nd December 2011
  #77
Gear addict
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 438

Ran_ks is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halloween View Post
This is what newbs do. They cry. Can't afford the upgrade? Dont upgrade. This is the same mentality of the generation X occupy crowd. Its just annoying. If I dont like something, I don't use it. If I don't like someone. I stay away from them. But alas this is what babies do, they cry. I also want to point out how useless this whole thing is. Avid is a company, not your partner. I've gotta go troll the Ford Motors forum because the Raptor is too expensive.
Sorry but you're absolutely wrong.

Most of the people who complain here or on other forums / blogs are people who do like Protools. They complain because they think Avid is doing wrong things with the product. They complain because Avid is in fact a partner, a business partner. By the way, if you think a thread is annoying, why bother reading it in the first place ?
#78
2nd December 2011
Old 2nd December 2011
  #78
Lives for gear
 
Halloween's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,052

Halloween is offline
I just try to understand all angles but I've still yet to be convinced that this is anything more than crying.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com
DustinPottyMouth
Thread Starter
#79
2nd December 2011
Old 2nd December 2011
  #79
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 47

Thread Starter
Send a message via AIM to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via MSN to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via Yahoo to DustinPottyMouth
DustinPottyMouth is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halloween View Post
I just try to understand all angles but I've still yet to be convinced that this is anything more than crying.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com
Well than try and digest this as stupid or hard headed as it may sound. I would gladly opt to burn the money I received as a refund just to prove that I'd rather nobody had the money vs having a messed up corporation that has these kind of ethics and influence. The only problem is I'd probably get arrested for it. Regardless I hope you understand that what I am doing is shunning this behavior in public so that others in the industry can see it and acknowledge that its wrong and refuse to adopt that way of thinking. This has always been my intention first and foremost.

I think I've done a pretty good job of explaining my position. Also considering I am one of those people who was layed off due to "the economy". I have resentment towards your OWS statement. However, I understand your sentiment. I just think you are failing to put yourself in other peoples shoes and that is a really unhealthy thing for anyone to argue, as we are all living on this planet together. If an imbalance happens in one place it causes everything else to offset as a result indirectly. If the people we are governed by care not about the conditions they subject us to why should we care to obey or tolerate them? Feel free to not make this a political answer I was simply implying that there is a connection here.

Bottom line is they are engineering the glass ceiling in their software and its going to be expensive for anyone who is invested. Stop trying to brush it off because I didnt buy a HD system. HD systems are nothing more than a bottleneck mix for your pc composed of proprietary hardware and software. This isnt 1996 this is 2011. Our computers are more powerful than the dsp they offer, and even if they werent at the time of writing this, it is most definitely the case that they will be in the future. How do you justify the upgrades and stuff old users paid for regarding pci to pci-e upgrades? How will those people feel when they have to buy them again? Lets be honest here...

We haven't really needed HD rigs since about 2006, but that is debatable for the most part. I can do more than you can with my 500 dollar copy of cubase 6 and thats a fact that I am more than willing to elaborate for you upon request. So tell me again, why is my disagreement with their policies wrong? You can call it whining or bitching all you want, but the fact is those are just clever words to undermine what I am saying. They prove nothing, and they solve nothing. You can't actually justify what you are saying any more or less than I can by simply calling me a whiner. Thanks for the response.

-Dustin
#80
5th December 2011
Old 5th December 2011
  #80
Lives for gear
 
Halloween's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,052

Halloween is offline
I honestly just don't get it... If your cuebase rig can do more than my HD rig, why don't you use the cuebase rig? This is a lot of selfish double talk that really has no point, you have options obviously but you choose to sit around and gripe and spew negativity in hopes of what? Getting something for nothing? Avid develops their hardware and software, they have every right to sell it. You should already know that everything is finite, one day you will need to upgrade no matter what the item is when it comes to the digital world. So unless you can explain your specific gripe and show us exactly how they have forced you to do something you didn't want to please just save yourself the problems and go make music. Like I said before this is just like the ows deal, nothing is fair because I'm lazy and I got rewarded in school for coming in last place so what gives with the college loans mentality. Welcome to the real world.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com
DustinPottyMouth
Thread Starter
#81
6th December 2011
Old 6th December 2011
  #81
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 47

Thread Starter
Send a message via AIM to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via MSN to DustinPottyMouth Send a message via Yahoo to DustinPottyMouth
DustinPottyMouth is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halloween View Post
I honestly just don't get it... If your cuebase rig can do more than my HD rig, why don't you use the cuebase rig? This is a lot of selfish double talk that really has no point, you have options obviously but you choose to sit around and gripe and spew negativity in hopes of what? Getting something for nothing? Avid develops their hardware and software, they have every right to sell it. You should already know that everything is finite, one day you will need to upgrade no matter what the item is when it comes to the digital world. So unless you can explain your specific gripe and show us exactly how they have forced you to do something you didn't want to please just save yourself the problems and go make music. Like I said before this is just like the ows deal, nothing is fair because I'm lazy and I got rewarded in school for coming in last place so what gives with the college loans mentality. Welcome to the real world.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com
Its not my fault that you seem to keep missing the point. You're right though, nobody is forcing anyone to use it. That being said however is irrelevant to my argument. Believe me I do use my cubase rig EVERYDAY with solid results. I bought protools for omf exportation. Its not reliable enough half the time to even do that and I've elaborated/embellished enough but so be it. My point is that the company has moved on to protools 10, and therefore has put protools 9 at a lower/near zero priority. Considering I just bought it in may I see that as nothing more than a slap in the face because of a few reasons! Out of morbid curiosity I am going to say it again though hoping it sinks in.

First off protools 10 supports real time fades. While this is fantastic for protools 10 users it effectively cancels out the cross compatibility option(you cannot open a pt10 session in pt7,8, or 9 for example). That definitively categorizes it as obsolete in my opinion but dont take my word for it. Look it up in a dictionary if you dont believe me! The only option left after that is omf export but as I've said before its very unreliable. Therefore the argument that its not is about as reasonable as me arguing that I could still use a rotary telephone to make a phone call.

Second they touted protools as being able to use third party interfaces, and this simply isn't true unless you specifically say "asio compatible" which is really misleading. I use several 3rd party interfaces so I would assume at least one would work well; it did not. This could be overlooked if the manufacturer would do the right thing and continue to fix bugs. Someone said the other day that 9.0.6 is out but I went on the avid page and could not find it so I can only assume its true. This may be my error but as far as I can tell they dropped support, and their own employees had confirmed this to me over the phone. So why shouldn't I believe that is the case. Their official press release for pt 10 had some commenting on pt9 and they said something to the tune of "all major fixes have been made so naturally we decided it was time to release the next version".

Third, Avid does develops their own hardware and software and thats great! I am glad they do because those systems tend to work great together however I dont feel that this is their actual motive for doing what they do. Given the pricing schemes and their history it doesnt take much to realize AVID is not a company to give something away for nothing so I took it as a great slap in the face to also hear and confirm with an employee that they are indeed in development of pt11 already which is native 64bit. Lets just be honest here, there is no reason why they can't make the hardware compatible but there is a reason for them not to, and that is money.

I've done loads of research to come to my conclusion which is that they are incrementally making things obsolete so they can provide incentive to upgrade. The upgrade itself is always very costly regardless of necessity, and at some point almost always becomes required. Once again though you are right, nobody is twisting anybodies arm here, but if they do those things they set an example. If that example suggests that they can get away with making more money that way its a pretty good example for others to follow wouldnt you say? Sadly thats what our country seems to promote and you have to ask yourself whats important. To me this is ethically wrong and I want to reclaim my pledge of support. The sad part is that all of this is nothing a user wants to hear is it?
They are supposedly getting rid of their newest hd native stuff next year as well. So please tell me again.... Why shouldnt I complain?

I'm all about hearing logic, and this is nothing personal against the software. I'd probably love protools if it wasnt such a buggy piece of shit for me personally. That is a very annoying thing to experience when you have a specialized purpose for the software you buy, and I think I have the right to demand a refund. I would have demanded one when I get it had I known they would be putting out a new version less than 6 months later touting "better asio support" and "improved reliability and overall experience". Really? Bullshit, give me the same value avid!
#82
6th December 2011
Old 6th December 2011
  #82
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 767

ProPower is offline
I get you and even agree with most of what you say except.......

Been on Macs the whole time and PT since V4 has been solid the whole time. Bugs, sure..... anything that keeps me from being productive..... nope..... PT9HD on mac..... no real problems for me.........

After 14 years of card based systems I switched to 3rd party (MetricHAlo) native and PT10HD...... works amazingly well........ are the PT10HD features worth the money to me...... yep, love em......

Planned obsolescence....... absolutely
Expensive...... absolutely
When I bought into it in 1998 it was INCREDIBLY expensive compared to now...... $1000 9.1G SCSI drive!
New software pricing........ shockingly high.......

But here I am on my new PT10-native system happily making music.......

I wish the same for you wherever you land...........
#83
6th December 2011
Old 6th December 2011
  #83
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,901

Duardo is offline
Quote:
Its not my fault that you seem to keep missing the point.
There's a difference between missing the point and disagreeing with it.

Quote:
My point is that the company has moved on to protools 10, and therefore has put protools 9 at a lower/near zero priority. Considering I just bought it in may I see that as nothing more than a slap in the face because of a few reasons!
Why would you take it personally? So you bought it in May...that wouldn't have changed whether PT9 was released in April, or a year ago, or two years ago, or five. They've always had a grace period of about a month so you would have fallen outside of that period regardless. And any time a company releases a new version one would expect the older versions to drop in priority (although, as has been pointed out, they have released at least one update to 9 since then).

Quote:
First off protools 10 supports real time fades. While this is fantastic for protools 10 users it effectively cancels out the cross compatibility option(you cannot open a pt10 session in pt7,8, or 9 for example). That definitively categorizes it as obsolete in my opinion but dont take my word for it. Look it up in a dictionary if you dont believe me!
I don't think that anyone's questioning the definition of "obsolete". You can save a PT10 session in an older format if you want to, though, for that very reason.

Quote:
Second they touted protools as being able to use third party interfaces, and this simply isn't true unless you specifically say "asio compatible" which is really misleading. I use several 3rd party interfaces so I would assume at least one would work well; it did not.
They did say ASIO (or Core Audio), did they not? What's misleading about that? And it seems that people are using the same interfaces as you are with no problems, but you've refused Avid's offer to help get your system working. Again, it seems that you really don't WANT it to work.

Quote:
Given the pricing schemes and their history it doesnt take much to realize AVID is not a company to give something away for nothing so I took it as a great slap in the face to also hear and confirm with an employee that they are indeed in development of pt11 already which is native 64bit. Lets just be honest here, there is no reason why they can't make the hardware compatible but there is a reason for them not to, and that is money.
Of course they're already developing the next version. Of course they're going to have a native 64-bit version of their software available at some point. As it's one of the most often-requested features I think most users would take it as a slap in the face if they WEREN'T working on it.

And they've said over and over again that they're NOT going to make the old hardware incompatible...just that they're not going to continue to test old hardware with newer software versions. It may work and it may not. Of course money is part of the reason for that...it costs money to keep testing and qualifying old hardware...but why would you want them to do that rather than keep the software moving forward? The old hardware will continue to work with older software revisions.

Quote:
I've done loads of research to come to my conclusion which is that they are incrementally making things obsolete so they can provide incentive to upgrade. The upgrade itself is always very costly regardless of necessity, and at some point almost always becomes required. Once again though you are right, nobody is twisting anybodies arm here, but if they do those things they set an example.
Isn't that the nature of technology? They do it...computer companies do it...car manufacturers do it...are you upset that your new computer doesn't have floppy drives and a parallel port? I'm certainly not.

Quote:
They are supposedly getting rid of their newest hd native stuff next year as well. So please tell me again.... Why shouldnt I complain?
In this case, probably because of the word "supposedly"...
#84
7th December 2011
Old 7th December 2011
  #84
Gear maniac
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 274

RScott is offline
I'd love to use PT at home but I can't justify the cost. My work can justify the expense of buying a PT system, but perhaps not all the plugs and upgrades. For the bread and butter of our jobs we can and do spend tens of thousands on production gear. If we did recording or post work in a similar capacity, the price of PT would be laughably affrdable.

My point is, for each of these business capacities, having every version of PT would be a great thing. But not each one can afford it and not each one requires it.

Any good engineer can make good records two versions behind the curve. The only thing I see here I a sense of entitlement that doesn't match earnings.

via Gearslutz Mobile App
#85
7th December 2011
Old 7th December 2011
  #85
Lives for gear
 
beau_mckee's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,214

beau_mckee is online now
For once I will be skipping the upgrade to 10 and will wait for 64bit version
__________________



www.BeauMckeeRecordings.com
#86
8th December 2011
Old 8th December 2011
  #86
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Up here
Posts: 7,302

elambo is offline
Combine the Declaration of Independence and the Gettysburg Address and you'd still have fewer words than half of these posts. Some of you guys REALLY love to type.
#87
8th December 2011
Old 8th December 2011
  #87
Lives for gear
 
Halloween's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,052

Halloween is offline
What D said. It just seems a bit... Daft to sit and stir being all upset about a company moving forward. I assume you are the type of person that would complain regardless of what avid did. If they didn't do anything for you to complain about you would complain about what they didn't do. They are moving forward. Sink or swim pal.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com
#88
8th December 2011
Old 8th December 2011
  #88
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Up here
Posts: 7,302

elambo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halloween View Post
What D said. It just seems a bit... Daft to sit and stir being all upset about a company moving forward. I assume you are the type of person that would complain regardless of what avid did. If they didn't do anything for you to complain about you would complain about what they didn't do. They are moving forward. Sink or swim pal.
A pacifist. How non-progressive. I tried your "it's' all good" method as a kid and got stomped on. Vultures LOVE this attitude. It's not balance for the pursuits of capitalism. When you believe that a company pushes too hard, you push back. That's how it works.
Dz7
#89
8th December 2011
Old 8th December 2011
  #89
Dz7
Gear addict
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 344

Dz7 is offline
FWIW, Audio Ease (makers of Altiverb) are giving free upgrades to customers who purchased the previous version after January, 2011. I've been silent on this whole PT10 ordeal (having purchased 9 in late July), but I do agree with the sentiments of those who feel a complimentary upgrade is in order. It's not so much an expectancy of free software as a simple token of customer appreciation - simply says a lot about the company personae.
#90
11th December 2011
Old 11th December 2011
  #90
Lives for gear
 
Halloween's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,052

Halloween is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
A pacifist. How non-progressive. I tried your "it's' all good" method as a kid and got stomped on. Vultures LOVE this attitude. It's not balance for the pursuits of capitalism. When you believe that a company pushes too hard, you push back. That's how it works.
I don't, nor have I ever been stomped on, I'm sorry you were. My thought process is very simple, if I like blue better than red, I get something blue. I don't sit around and bitch about the color red.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.