Tinnitus... AGAIN!!!

[Stevefire]

Hello fellas,

I've been dealing with tinnitus since november 2009 after a very long studio session... the first 4 months were hell on earth, couldn't do anything music related work as my ears whistled, were hurt with everyday sounds and very sensitive to high frequency noises such as keys, plates, car breaks etc...

But after 4 months I decided to start again slowly, until after another 3 months I've been back to my normal life, though the ringing was still there but not intrusive....

Now the same thing happened again, this time after 1.5 hours studio session monitoring at 85db. I feel helpless having to go trough all this hell again and having to leave music for a number of months again...

Has any tinnitus people experienced this and recuperated like the previous time? any good stories from anyone??

thankyou for your future replies

Steve

[VenVile]

Everyone is different, and it's apparent your ears are very sensitive. Just give them rest, and a nice change of scenery...or soundry? ...And start listening at low levels, lower than you'd expect. Put on some music slightly lower than the level you'll usually listen at, then gradually lower the volume as you listen to it. The ears, like most of the body, has a remarkable way to adapt to its environment. From the very first time you listen at low volumes, it may seem too low, but after a few minutes, it won't bother you. Then, notch down the volume a bit again...it will seem too low again, but after a minute or two, it will seem perfectly fine. Do this repeatedly (after you let your ears rest of course) until you've lowered your general listening volume. Before you do this, mark on your volume dial, or any reference than you can use, where you usually listen to your music now. Then, after you've done this experiment, put the dial up to where you used to, or think you used to listen to music generally...and it will bother you some. You may actually be surprised at the level you used to listen to music, even if they're relatively low for most people.

It's always best to mix at low volumes. If you must expose yourself to high volumes, do not do it for very long periods. Maybe 15 minute periods at best. People argue that you can listen for longer periods without damaging your ears, and you can. BUT, something happens when you listen to music for longer periods. Just like the little experiment above for lower volumes...your ears become accustomed, or adapt to the environment. Your ears do not discriminate. If it's high, or low volumes, it will adapt for each. The music may be high...but after a while, it won't seem high. They'll seem perfectly normal...and you'll subconsciously continue exposing yourself to volumes in that ball park, constantly raising (or lowering, depending on how you look at it) your threshold. You want to avoid that. Get your ears accustomed to lower volumes.

Purchase some ear plugs and use them in and out of the studio. Take breaks during sessions. It's important to give your ears rest.

[Mark D.]

Another thing is 85db SPL should be for truly full range sound. Meaning hearing from at least 30-40 hz up to 20 khz with proper bass. Playing a mix about 85db coming from just your nearfields with no sub (and the nearfields don't do much below, say 50-60 hz) means too much highs & that isn't as good. For me anything over 80 hz for more than a few minutes will be too much. My ears are that sensitive, especially in the highs, I'm setting treble adjustments on studio monitors down and I can't tolerate pretty much any monitor set flat, over 70db, for long.

Watch for hidden sources of noise. Loud talking (that includes your voice), loud bars (with or without bands). I cover my ears when fire truck, police car, ambulance sirens go by outdoors and even in rare cases indoors if it's loud enough. Get an otolarygologist (ear-nose-throat doctor) to examine both ears and remove wax. It's better than doing it yourself. Wax can not only block sounds, but it could increase certain resonances. If it is blocking outside sound, it can make the 'inside sound' (tinnitus) worse. Also try to get 7-8 hours of solid sleep regularly.

[Stevefire]

Thankyou for your replies guys, I will surely take your tips for future sessions...

Though is there anyone who experienced tinnitus as i am experiencing now? Will i be able to get back to the studio and get some work done?? at the moment I feel very helpless

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Go see a good ENT doctor before you do ANYTHING else. It may be something that they can treat or suggest some solutions.

All the usual suspects should be looked at. NO CAFFEINE, limit exposure to loud noises, limit your intake of alcohol, get plenty of rest, wear earplugs if doing anything of a percussive nature, don't mix for long hours at loud (over 80 dBSPL levels) especially on near field monitors, don't turn up the volume in your headphones when doing casual listening to music, stay well hydrated, get your ears checked for wax built up and give your ears a rest every so often.

There are some interesting cures for Tinnitus but a visit to a good ENT doctor should be your first course of action.

Best of luck!

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by Stevefire

Hello fellas,

I've been dealing with tinnitus since november 2009 after a very long studio session... the first 4 months were hell on earth, couldn't do anything music related work as my ears whistled, were hurt with everyday sounds and very sensitive to high frequency noises such as keys, plates, car breaks etc...

But after 4 months I decided to start again slowly, until after another 3 months I've been back to my normal life, though the ringing was still there but not intrusive....

Now the same thing happened again, this time after 1.5 hours studio session monitoring at 85db. I feel helpless having to go trough all this hell again and having to leave music for a number of months again...

Has any tinnitus people experienced this and recuperated like the previous time? any good stories from anyone??

thankyou for your future replies

Steve

I have experienced it LOTs of times. All the doctors know NOTHING.

THere is ONE thing that helps. And it ALWAYS cures me. Running.

Plane and Simple. When I start getting that whistle in the ears (trying to fall asleep i KILLING me) I run 7 Kilometers that same evening. I'll continue to do so for the next two weeks, every night. After about 2 weeks - whistling is gone...

You have VERY small veins up in your ears. The dont get flushed easily (with blood) and without proper circulation you can get all kinds of stuff in your ears. Ringing, Whistle etc...

So, normally after the whistling vanishes, I'll stop running (Stupid I know) and without that, I can set a mark in the calendar - 3-4months later, that whistling is back...

So - get out there and give it a go... I HELPS me. Every time !

[threeneedletrees]

Dude, i live with my tinnitus since 4 years now. If i follow some simple rules, i can live pretty good with my tinnitus.

Like you, i was in the studio, tweaking an aggressive synth sound ( at a low level !! ) and suddenly it was there, like somebody had thrown it right in my face. The first days where absolute hell, my biggest fear had become reallity. No doctor could help.

For me, the biggest step was to become "friends" with this horrible noise.
For example:
You need to see your tinnitus from a different angle. Many people have tinnitus but they cannot hear it. You are an engineer with trained ears and brain to hear hidden noises, very low noises , specific frequencies ect... This training can maybe give you the ability to hear what others don't hear... Including the tinnitus.
There's no proof that something is wrong with your ears, maybe you just hear your own bloodflow... The more you search and try to hear your tinnitus, the louder it will become. I know it sounds stupid but it works; Tinnitus is mostly psychological, and has in many cases nothing to do with physical dammage. Try not to allow this noise to get louder.
When i tell my tinnitus to dissapear (in my mind), it almost dissapears completely, but when i search for it, it becomes louder...
accept it, live with it, try to have a positive approach and in a few weeks it will be better.
For the studio:
1hour of mixing or producing or whatever requires at least 10mins of breaktime for your beloved ears.
Do this with all the self-discipline you've got, make no exceptions - there are no excuses when it comes to your ears. With this technique i can work for hours with no problems at all.
Dont spend too much time on focussing on a single noise or sound. Dont hear the same loop/ or sound for a long time, it will make your ears tired faster..
Never work while tired...

Hope this helps..

[Stevefire]

Thankyou for your replies mates, Really helps to at least get some opinions from other persons going trough the same things like me....

Infact I'm going for long fast walks and somehow it seems that is have tamed the ringing a bit, altough the pain is still there.... i think my ears have gone trough a trauma and they need rest from any sort of music... ya know music is very frequency heavy on the ear, it encorporates all the frequency spectrum

Doctors and ENTs are horrible, they all say "IT"S NOTHING, GET USED TO IT" and after "45 EURO PLEASE"....

I HATE THEM!

[guveneur]

My $.02.

A friend of mine had bad ear problems. Like mentioned, dropping caffeine helped. He also gave up dairy. Apparently it causes mucus to build up in the body. Even the ears. This was more to help his hearing, but I wouldn't be surprised if it helped tennitus.

Good luck, man.

[uncle duncan]

I first noticed my ears ringing 37 years ago. While there is no cure, there are measures to help prevent further damage. Number one: wear earplugs whenever you're in a loud environment. That includes driving around in your car, which can easily hit 85db constant on a db meter. Turn up the stereo and it's even louder. Movie theaters, sporting events, these all can damage your hearing. In the studio, get used to working at lower levels. If the client wants it loud, give them a set of headphones or set up speakers in another room for the client to listen to, or just tell the client you don't do loud.

I can still hear just fine. What I can't do is work with music for extended periods of time at a volume level louder than dinner time TV. Having recently quit coffee, and started taking long fast walks, I'd guess it helps. (Quitting coffee is the worst. Wait until the next time you catch a cold or the flu. You'll be so sick you won't notice the withdrawals. Once you're clean, you'll feel much more energetic on a consistent basis, rather than experiencing the constant up and down you get from the temporary coffee rush.)

[Stevefire]

well about coffee and dairy i have no problems since I'm allergic to both of them !!

Exercise really helps.... it's a good thing after all. I decided to subscribe to a gym and go there everyday.

I am in process of starting my music career as a full time job but nowadays I would know what to do... I'll guess it's better to leave this as a part-time hobby/job... after all when it becomes your full-time is wouldn't be a hobby anymore

[WTMNMF]

Recent research has concluded that Tinnitus is like the phantom pain syndrome that accompanies a lost limb. The ear is a spectrum analyzer, and each 'band' has a connection to a nerve ending. When you damage your hearing at a particular frequency the nerve is no longer stimulated and begins sending phantom signals to the brain. It's like it's upping the gain because it wants to hear, but there is no feedback in the system, so it just gets pegged.

I suspect that the very good cure for phantom limb pain syndrome will have an analog here. With phantom limb pain it has been discovered that if you mirror the remaining limb (that is, use a mirror to show that limb so that it appears in the position of the other), when the patient moves the limb the brain sees the missing one move and is satisfied that it's there and working properly, so it stops amplifying the signal from the stump nerve and ends the pain.

I think psycho-acoustic principles might be employed to trick the brain into perceiving the missing frequencies. It would probably require some initial training, plus regular retraining sessions.

I know that this does not help in the short term, but I hope that someone more qualified that me will pursue this research and offer a real therapy soon.

In the meantime, I can only suggest that relaxation and learning to let it be - without overly focusing on it, really helps put it in the background and over time I have found that I just don't notice for the most part. Remember that if you still get pleasure from listening, then you still have the ability to make critical judgements regarding sound. Don't worry about being 'damaged'. Everyone has some baggage that they bring to the process that they must work with/around.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by Stevefire

Hello fellas,

I've been dealing with tinnitus since november 2009 after a very long studio session... the first 4 months were hell on earth, couldn't do anything music related work as my ears whistled, were hurt with everyday sounds and very sensitive to high frequency noises such as keys, plates, car breaks etc...

But after 4 months I decided to start again slowly, until after another 3 months I've been back to my normal life, though the ringing was still there but not intrusive....

Now the same thing happened again, this time after 1.5 hours studio session monitoring at 85db. I feel helpless having to go trough all this hell again and having to leave music for a number of months again...

Has any tinnitus people experienced this and recuperated like the previous time? any good stories from anyone??

thankyou for your future replies

Steve

SHEEEEESHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you have tinnitus you should be wearing earplugs for anything over 70dB

no bleeping wonder it is back

learn to ignore it
dont make it worse by smashing your ears with anything loud
50dB should be your norm
60 should be your hot
70 should be earplug time

[klanglab]

Get in touch with some local tinnitus support group or organization, such as the American Tinnitus Association in the US. They will most likely be able to recommend ENTs/doctors that take tinnitus seriously and know enough about it to actually be helpful. It is a specialist area, so most general practitioners won't have much of a clue. The first one I went to just told me to find another "hobby" and it would go away on its own...

[lukejs]

Hi.. when I drink Coke, or coffee, I get ringing in my ears... I agree to stay away from caffeine ! I've been taking magnesium chloride supplements, and my ears are doing great as of late... Buy it in a salt form, not pills... 30 grams to one liter of water, and drink about a half a cup with each meal... Look up the benefits of magnesium chloride, and you'll be shocked to find all the health benefits of taking this... we need about 400 to 500 mg daily, but many of us are deficient due to , how convenient.. Coke and Coffee !!! Cafeine, sugar, prescription drugs, and a host of other things cause magnesium to be excreted from our bodies. It's probably the most overlooked mineral ... even more important than calcium in bone health... Look into this...maybe your tinnitus is telling you that you need more magnesium ! Do you have any muscle twitches , or problems with cramps ? Drink alcohol ? High blood pressure ? Dificulty sleeping ? Under a lot of stress ? Look into this .. Hope this helps !! Luke

[MILO.DROME]

Originally Posted by Stevefire

Hello fellas,

I've been dealing with tinnitus since november 2009 after a very long studio session... the first 4 months were hell on earth, couldn't do anything music related work as my ears whistled, were hurt with everyday sounds and very sensitive to high frequency noises such as keys, plates, car breaks etc...

But after 4 months I decided to start again slowly, until after another 3 months I've been back to my normal life, though the ringing was still there but not intrusive....

Now the same thing happened again, this time after 1.5 hours studio session monitoring at 85db. I feel helpless having to go trough all this hell again and having to leave music for a number of months again...

Has any tinnitus people experienced this and recuperated like the previous time? any good stories from anyone??

thankyou for your future replies

Steve

what a bummer man. hope you get well with your hearing soon. whats the best preventive to this thing ?

[nms]

You are going to have to keep to a strict diet of Yanni and Michael Bolton for a few weeks I'm sorry to say.

[Arksun]

Originally Posted by WTMNMF

Recent research has concluded that Tinnitus is like the phantom pain syndrome that accompanies a lost limb. The ear is a spectrum analyzer, and each 'band' has a connection to a nerve ending. When you damage your hearing at a particular frequency the nerve is no longer stimulated and begins sending phantom signals to the brain. It's like it's upping the gain because it wants to hear, but there is no feedback in the system, so it just gets pegged.

I have to partially disagree with this. I'd argue that 'som'e tinnitus is like this, others are different, much more real and what I'd call reactive.

For example with my ear problems the past year and half which started from a bad infection, I have a reactive ringing in my right ear. Reactive in the sense that, when I hear frequencies near the ringing freq or fairly close to it, it makes my ringing much louder. I do have other tinnitus in both ears from my years of loud sound pressure abuse, but they are constant and steady. If sound is louder than that ringing I don't hear them. But this particular reactive ringing behaves very differently.

I don't believe simply telling myself to ignore that ringing is going to work, for the other ringing I have not thinking about it does help.

[kennybro]

Originally Posted by nms

You are going to have to keep to a strict diet of Yanni and Michael Bolton for a few weeks I'm sorry to say.

But what if one does not like the way either Yanni or Bolton taste? Can you suggest seasonings?

[Bristol_Jonesey]

I've been living with my tinnitus for nearly 10 years now.

It's in my left ear permanently.

I've just learnt to live with it, though I might investigate the Magnesium Chloride suggestion.

[kennybro]

I've had it, mostly in the right ear for some time. Even low volume acoustic gigs aggravate it. I once nearly punched a drummer who rim-cracked a snare while I was close in there setting a mic.

I've tried a lot of the anecdotal "cures," ginkgo biloba, niacin, various herbs & teas, etc. Figured they wouldn't hurt. They didn't; or help.

Blood pressure control, caffeine, nicotine, stress & noise avoidance, and getting enough sleep seem to be the only real stuff right now from what I read.
But my BP's OK, I don't smoke, I sleep like a farm dog and I'm not very stressed. So all I can do is quit coffee, and that ain't happening anytime soon.

[Soundseed]

Share your pain mate. Here's a song about the dreaded thing I made a while back:

http://soundcloud.com/piet-haag/the-tinnitus-song

Doesn't really help, but it was good to get it off my chest, specially the bit in the second verse about medical types who basically look at you like an idiot and tell you to naff off.

[Beat Poet]

Originally Posted by kennybro

I've had it, mostly in the right ear for some time. Even low volume acoustic gigs aggravate it. I once nearly punched a drummer who rim-cracked a snare while I was close in there setting a mic.

I wince when I see drummers noodling on the kit while the soundman or engineer has got his head about six inches away from the snare or crashes. Get out from behind the kit and wait while the guy whips the mics up.

I have a bit of tinnitus but nothing I can't handle, I've worn plugs for 95% of the practises/rehearsals I've done, though I did a couple of years of gigs before wearing plugs for those as well. I don't know how the OP managed to do that much damage in a day though, were you doing a Pete Townshend, listening on headphones at ear-melting volumes?

I played with a guitarist once who started complaining about his ears, then the next time in the studio I picked up his headphones (after he'd used them) so I could lay down some tambourine or something, the producer hit record and I couldn't believe the volume in the cans - I whipped them off and was like "what the ****?!".

[BigKD]

Any sustained monitoring higher than 75db is LOUD in my opinion. 85db? Ouch! Even 70-75db is pushing it for me now. I have been having a lot of problems with my ears and will see an ENT tomorrow. Crossing my fingers and hoping it's some temporary tinnitus/sensitivity and no actual hearing loss. It's all from mixing and playing my guitar amp WAY too loud. I bought an SPL meter and find that my ears start acting up above 73db or so. I recommend everybody working with sound to buy a simple SPL meter so you know what's going on in your space. Set it up near your mixing "sweet spot". It's a nice reality check when you go to turn up your monitors and see the db reading go higher than healthy levels.

I sat down and really thought about why I was playing/mixing so loud and damaging my hearing and realized that I was cranking my monitors because I could not hear my mixes and performances very clearly with my crappy interface and untreated room. So I bought a new interface with better converters....that helped. Now I'm in the process of treating my room and getting the speakers on some heavy stands further away from my poor ears. I did a room analysis and realized that my mix position has a 20db null between 80-100hz [so I had to crank my stuff to hear the bass region of my mixes] along with various nasty resonances. Hopefully all of these fixes will allow me to have more clarity and lose the desire to turn up my monitors and damage my hearing.

[UpNSmoke]

I just wanted to thank J Mascis for giving me bleeding ear drums at a Dinosaur Jr. concert. Now all music sounds like a test of the Emergency Broadcast System.

[Ben F]

Go and see a TRT (tinnitus retraining therapy) psychologist.

85% effective. It retrains your brain not to listen for the sound, and effectively breaks the feedback loop. I know someone that had very good results.

[kennybro]

Originally Posted by UpNSmoke

I just wanted to thank J Mascis for giving me bleeding ear drums at a Dinosaur Jr. concert. Now all music sounds like a test of the Emergency Broadcast System.

I need to send out a call to Ted Nugent for this. The Amboy Dukes at a small local club, long ago. Four Dual Showmans and a jazz box. I suppose I could have moved a little farther back. Not his fault.
I was young enough to recover, but I always had to be careful from then on.

[Dissdnt_penguin]

Here is an interesting reading for tinnitus sufferers.

I was looking for info on middle ear inflammation caused by being in an anechoic chamber (something I was told when I was studying, but no citation was provided), and I found this interesting link about tinnitus.

To cut it short (which was probably mentioned by someone before), listening to white noise or blue noise at low levels for a few weeks after acoustic trauma could prevent the neural malformations that lead to tinnitus.

I even read somewhere here (another tinnitus thread) that it is a regular therapy.

The link: Tinnitus: Causes and Treatment

Hope this helps someone. I suffered from tinnitus for like 2 or 3 weeks after my first Iron Maiden concert (5th row ) in 93, but luckily for me it went away, or at least decreased enough so I don't notice it any more, and I can only imagine how would my life be if it had remained...

Originally Posted by threeneedletrees

Dude, i live with my tinnitus since 4 years now. If i follow some simple rules, i can live pretty good with my tinnitus.

Like you, i was in the studio, tweaking an aggressive synth sound ( at a low level !! ) and suddenly it was there, like somebody had thrown it right in my face. The first days where absolute hell, my biggest fear had become reallity. No doctor could help.

Overly compressed sounds or high frequency square waves for that matter, cause very violent excursions of the eardrum, which may in turn cause serious damage to the ears, even at low levels. Sorry to hear about your story. It is scary how easy it is to unknowingly damage one of our precious senses or organs just like that.

I really wish you guys to find a relief.
DP

[lukejs]

Look no further...... research WOBENZYM N ..... This is a miracle supplement... Everyone should take it.. for general health as well as recuperation from disease....

[lovecapacitor]

I've been dealing with the same BS problem for a while; it's a total pain in the ass when it comes to production work. first 6 months was no joy! I'm not an expert at all but here's my posit:

There are multiple types of tinnitus caused by different things. I have the type that suddenly showed up during a loud listening experience and at the same volume in both ears. All of my friends who have picked it up also picked it up in both ears at the same moment. Considering that the everyone, myself included, was exposed to loud music for over a decade before onset it's a notable point that it showed up in both ears right at the same time and at the same volume. This is also weighted that due to random chance my right ear always got more exposure due to the way I habitually layed out furnature in a room. Taking all of this into account the probability that it's only a sensor problem is really low. I think there is a neural feedback loop that get's running and then burns in. A previous poster commented on this and I'm definitely going to do some research on it.

Here is exactly where the PITA part comes in music production: The more focus I'm putting on what I'm listening to the faster it ramps up into a problem. 85dB for 1 hour no attention = no problem at all. 85dB for 1 hour EQing tracks = I have to put up with it for days. It's the focus on the sound that effects me more than anything. The more focused I am, the worst it is. Totally irritating.

A general list of things I've learned:
- total hydration, no alcohol, no coffee
- plenty of rest before hand - have a plan of what you're going to do- get in get out
- screwing around with low frequency square waves is the worst - why god why !?!?!?

Secret bonus level: Hitting record with no focus and letting the subconscious tweak the knobs isnt a problem and produces some of the best result.

regards!
lc