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The pain of a recording newbie.
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deathromantik
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#1
27th August 2011
Old 27th August 2011
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The pain of a recording newbie.

I am a student studying music production. It is damn hard going as I don't seem to be getting my head around it and I have technical problems all the time.
The set up that I am learning on is a Mac with Pro Tools 9, Large Beringer Eurodesk, a patchbay and a seperate recording room.

Twice I have tried to do my first signal flow assessment and failed miserably. I am really beginning to hate the Eurodesk with it's vague labeling, buttons that look the same pushed in or out, lack of LEDs and the bloody buttons on the back where I can't see them.
It is hard getting enough time to practice in the studio, studying for my degree while also having a family.
Having not dealt with anything more complicated then a stompbox, a drum maschine and my linux computer I feel like I am climbing Mt Everest.
#2
27th August 2011
Old 27th August 2011
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I feel you there, try getting ahold of a eurodesk manual, read it, learn it. You won't always be on one if you continue, but signal flow won't change, you will get it.

Heck before I went to recording school, I built a studio, can't believe how much we did not understand or do right, sometimes accidents work out. At school one morning the mixer finally clicked in my head (not unlike a light switch being turned on), and I just got it, same thing happened in photography classes at school. Keep plugging away, don't give up, study as much as you can, you'll figure it out.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app so please forgive any bad auto-correct. I'll try to fix it in the mix later!
#3
29th August 2011
Old 29th August 2011
  #3
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I used to teach basic audio to techs at a drama school & at a community college. You might be doing this already, but what worked for some was physically drawing out (diagramming) the signal flow - circles, lines, arrows, stick figures etc. Something about the doing of the drawing helps embed the concept in the brain and the diagram can be referred to for setup.

I also used to get all the home studio students to draw up the signal flow of their studio's - it was great for discovering other and sometimes better ways of routing and doing things.

If I'm doing a complex patch (live or in the studio) I often draw it up so it sticks in my skull.I'm also big on labeling things specially on annoying gear with stupid buttons with ops position set up in badly lit venues.

And once you get the analogue signal flow thing it makes software signal flow conceptually easier too.

G
#4
29th August 2011
Old 29th August 2011
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Big plus to that, I learned to do e diagram technique, had to back in the days before automation, and still do on analog synths and EFX units.

It's a skill all assistants should have down pat. I used to keep 3-5 subject notebooks (one section per project) I wrote everything down in them. List it all; track lists, channel settings, eq, sends, returns, patchbay, etc. Phone #'s needed, synth programs used,
Amazing how such a simple habit can save your bacon when needed, especially weeks or months later.

My mentor actually started me doing this, along with a pyramid list of daily to do's. Basically prioritizing your day, do the least liked chores or tasks first, get them out of the way, the rest of your day will be much better, applies in mixing and recording too!


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app so please forgive any bad auto-correct. I'll try to fix it in the mix later!
deathromantik
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#5
31st May 2012
Old 31st May 2012
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Good advice, I sort of have the Eurodesk down as far as very basic recording and mixdown.
Sending to FX and auxes is a little fuzzy, no idea how to make a split of a signal on the desk if I want to record in MS.
I passed that first test by the way, third time, though I did not actually learn what "Auto Input Monitoring" was until the exam.
#6
31st May 2012
Old 31st May 2012
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Just because you want to do something doesn't mean you're cut out to do that something.

Everyone has their own set of skills and talent. Part of learning is to identify those things that you are good at, not just those things that you like.

You may find yourself following a different course once you learn more about yourself. We learn from failure.
#7
31st May 2012
Old 31st May 2012
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Don't listen to the negative people on the forum. If you're passionate enough and you work hard enough you'll get it, this (literally) isn't brain surgery. It just takes some of us longer than others to get the hang of things, we're all wired differently (pun intended).
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#8
31st May 2012
Old 31st May 2012
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hopefully it will all just click and make sense. i don't really think about "signal flow" it's just logic now, but i remember when it didn't make sense at all.
deathromantik
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#9
31st May 2012
Old 31st May 2012
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I have all ready wasted 12 years of my life working trying to be a chef, I did not get anywhere with that, I ended up hating it. Worked so hard and got nothing from it, I had to get out of hospitality.

What I have always wanted to be is a musician, but I never could get a hold of a job that paid enough for me to pay for lessons.
Then I had the bright idea the learning the skills of a record producer would help me learn how to make music or at least pay for music lessons.

The way I see it, no matter what happens, this is my last chance to really do something with my life to go out there and try to change the music scene into something that I want to hear, help promote art and do something for my tribe.

Telling me that I am not cut out for this just makes me want to prove you wrong.
#10
1st June 2012
Old 1st June 2012
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i have many chef friends and it's no better in audio than they had. you aren't going to change anything, figure out where you fit in it and you'll be okay. good luck
deathromantik
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#11
1st June 2012
Old 1st June 2012
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I actually feel that it is audio, it is what I wanted to do all along. I am not letting a bump at the start stop me. I don't want to do anything else, I am not getting any younger so I am sticking with this.
#12
2nd June 2012
Old 2nd June 2012
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Not that I'm any sort of mixing genius (yet), but the signal diagrams are a good idea. I remember when I was first learning computer programming, I had trouble organizing my thoughts. A friend who was a computer engineering major started me drawing diagrams of the program before/as I wrote it, I hated doing it, but it helped me think about it using the right lens. Online Diagram Software and Flowchart Software - Gliffy isn't bad for diagrams. I used to have an awesome program for it, but I can't remember the name now. There's a lot of good freeware out there for this though. The only way to be successful is to do what you want to do. My first studio set up was but it was an excellent learning experience. As are most things that you have trouble with at first, we all plateau as we progress in any skill. It just means that the next epiphony is on the horizon. Good luck brotha.
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#13
2nd June 2012
Old 2nd June 2012
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Just because you want to do something doesn't mean you're cut out to do that something.

Everyone has their own set of skills and talent. Part of learning is to identify those things that you are good at, not just those things that you like.

You may find yourself following a different course once you learn more about yourself. We learn from failure.
.

Well, to put a positive spin on this, if you REALLY love something, you'll go for it.

Whether or not you can make money at it is a WHOLE different story.

Obviously, we have a pretty intense supply and demand situation - and the competition is thick and fierce.

But there are plenty of musically untalented people making money, as well as plenty of broke talented people.

Happiness is a whole 'nuther ball of wax.

Good luck with whatever you do, and may the force be with you.

.
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deathromantik
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#14
4th June 2012
Old 4th June 2012
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Live long and prosper.
#15
4th June 2012
Old 4th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathromantik View Post
I have all ready wasted 12 years of my life working trying to be a chef, I did not get anywhere with that, I ended up hating it. Worked so hard and got nothing from it, I had to get out of hospitality.
Hmmm... this could be a problem.

Cooking and mixing are two remarkably similar arts... both are about flavors, balances and textures as well as final presentation. The ingredients are equally important... as in fresh/quality ingredients are key in cooking, well recorded tracks are the absolute key to building an excellent presentation.

Concept of the meals / menu you design as a chef are amazingly similar to the songs and performances you record and "QC" when doing production in recording... and again, it all comes down to having the right ingredients, in the proper quantity to build the song / presentation of the music.

Interestingly - some of the best recording engineers and record producers I know are also amazing in the kitchen... there is a definite correlation... perhaps you have chosen a parallel incorrect career path and should think again about what will be best for your next career [every man needs 5 careers in a lifetime... personally, I'm on #4... soon to embark on #5].

Peace
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#16
4th June 2012
Old 4th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Hmmm... this could be a problem.

Cooking and mixing are two remarkably similar arts... both are about flavors, balances and textures as well as final presentation. The ingredients are equally important... as in fresh/quality ingredients are key in cooking, well recorded tracks are the absolute key to building an excellent presentation.

Concept of the meals / menu you design as a chef are amazingly similar to the songs and performances you record and "QC" when doing production in recording... and again, it all comes down to having the right ingredients, in the proper quantity to build the song / presentation of the music.

Interestingly - some of the best recording engineers and record producers I know are also amazing in the kitchen... there is a definite correlation... perhaps you have chosen a parallel incorrect career path and should think again about what will be best for your next career [every man needs 5 careers in a lifetime... personally, I'm on #4... soon to embark on #5].

Peace
What is career path number 5 going to look like Fletch?
Angora goats?

Are you enjoying Durham?

I'd love to be that close to old school minor league baseball. Enjoy!
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#17
4th June 2012
Old 4th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outUVphaze View Post
What is career path number 5 going to look like Fletch?
My girlfriend, a horticulturalist who specializes in high end golf courses [she does all the stuff that isn't grass], invented a product that keeps the vegetarian woodland creatures [Deer, Rabbits, etc.] from eating plants. It's 100% organic [won't harm critters, ground water, humans, pregnant ladies], lasts for 6 weeks per spraying [which included surviving Hurricane Irene when it dumped about 10" of rain on the golf course where she was working in New Jersey]. There are still more than a few things to work out, but we're hopeful we can have it to the point where we can begin to bring it to market sometime in the next year or two... and I'm hopeful that it will indeed become career #5.

We're loving Durham in a large way, looking to buy a house here... I've already been to like a dozen Bulls games [$7.99 for really decent tickets? MLB can go to hell!!]... and know where more than a few biker bars are [like ones where real bikers congregate... as opposed to the "sports bar" in downtown Durham that has a 10-15 scooters out front on a Saturday night].

Peace
#18
5th June 2012
Old 5th June 2012
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I have to say the notebook is a great idea I have 2 one for when I do any live sound I'll write down what needs to be done for which bands and another for recording where I'll draw signal paths, mix techniques used and what settings are on the plug ins I've used. That way if there's another band that are similar then you have a starting place straight away without all the experimenting you did the first time. It was my uni teacher that told me that and he was definitely right about it
deathromantik
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#19
6th June 2012
Old 6th June 2012
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This thread is old, I posted this when I was frustrated from failing the first time.
This may be difficult for me, but I don't want to do anything else.
I mean I just need to get my head around using the AUXs and splitting signals on the desk and I am fine.
#20
11th June 2012
Old 11th June 2012
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I couldn't think of the name of the software above. Seems like everyone likes to organize their thoughts somehow. If you don't like paper, or want to be able to change/sort your data, the software I was trying to think of is yEd graph editor. Freeware and has some cool functions, so check it out maybe.
deathromantik
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#21
11th June 2012
Old 11th June 2012
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Pen and paper is the fastest interface for plotting ideas there is. I just need to read the damn manuals for the consoles.
#22
13th June 2012
Old 13th June 2012
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Good advice not to listen to the negativity. A lot of it about here, but some great advice as well.
I can relate as I had to learn synthesis at 39 years old! Been playing guitar for years. Got bored of the same sounds.
I am still learning synth and it's been a year plus. I do have the basics down but struggling with FM and wavetable and the DX-7 can be very discouraging. Its all about understanding concepts as opposed to jut application.
Just compartmentalize. Treat it like algebra break it down to simple parts.
The diagram example from the other poster was a good call. I have a very large amount notes on how I arrived at sounds and how presets in the synths were arrived at. Sounds like you are having issues with gear. There prolly is mor intuitive stuff out there.
Hang in there!
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deathromantik
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#23
13th June 2012
Old 13th June 2012
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I am mucking about with synthesis myself, I only have the Korg DS-10, and some of the soft synthes in Logic. I do want a hardware one the Roland Gaia 01 looks nice for beginners like me.
I want to to do everything in music, from producing, musician, running a label. I have to learn how to do all of those well.

Tomorrow I will lock myself in the bedroom with the manuals for the Eurodesk and Toft consoles so that I can figure them out.
#24
14th June 2012
Old 14th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathromantik View Post
I am mucking about with synthesis myself, I only have the Korg DS-10, and some of the soft synthes in Logic. I do want a hardware one the Roland Gaia 01 looks nice for beginners like me.
I want to to do everything in music, from producing, musician, running a label. I have to learn how to do all of those well.

Tomorrow I will lock myself in the bedroom with the manuals for the Eurodesk and Toft consoles so that I can figure them out.
GET THE GAIA. It's not just for beginners. But many music schools have bought up Gaia's.
Some very advanced sounds can be made with it's 3 osc design.
Will it sound like an Access Virus. No. But the only Virus thats worth a damn is $2300!
The Gaia editor is topps as well. It actually will keep track of the changes you make so you can open a page and see how you arrived at the sound.
The Gaia inspired me to the synth rig you see in my signature!
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