The U87 is NOT a Very Good Sounding Microphone!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by gussyg2007

Now Tony must of been squeezing into his asbestos flame suit before he started this thread !!
Flame on !!!

I just wanted to get things closer to reality. Some of the conversations I've been having with people lately have made me want to pull my own hair out.

There is a fairly sizable percentage of people who have never used a U87 and think that it is the ultimate mic... the uber-mic of their dreams. It's kind of surpassed the C800-G in this respect. And, I just want people to know it will NOT make them sound amazing like they may believe.

Even if I have to get a little bit of "pitchfork and torch" treatment from some folks... it's worth it to inject a little more realistic expectations.

[Scradge]

Originally Posted by LisaSmile

no matter who you put a 414 in front of? all you have to do is change preamps for color?

LOL

Sorry I not one for responding like this, but, Dont quote someone and miss bits out of the quote in a snarky way to make that person look stupid, and then go "LOL" Like a teenage chat addict.

Ugh now i remember why I hate forums.

1, Im talking about MY 1980's C414-ULS, and the experiance ive had with it.
2, I said use I a different preamp for different sonic "colour", not "ALL you have to is"
3, Id like you to tell me what was wrong with my method of working? And do you think I should start using plugins instead?

Rant over.

Scradge.

[Matt V]

Well, many things that are terrible are still popular and insanely good sellers. Linkin Park comes to mind...

The U87 is like many mics - it can sound awesome on some sources, while even bad on others. However, if there ever was a mic that is reasonably close to a Swiss Army Knife of microphones, it is the U87. It's not the ideal home studio mic, though, as it pics up more depth (or room tone) than its cheaper brothers.

My 90's one gets some use, but for vocals I usually prefer a microphone that exaggerates the qualities I'm after a little more. U87 is rarely that. Tube mics for vocals, usually here.


All this said, Tony, as a moderator and someone well established here with a lot of sway I do find your post oddly placed. Not that you're usually unbiased, but it should be moved to the Moan Zone, don't you think?

[shatz]

Originally Posted by LisaSmile

no matter who you put a 414 in front of? all you have to do is change preamps for color?

LOL

Well, a microphone will sound different on different pre-amps in all of my experiences.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Diegel

I thought Gaga uses a 47. I've seen videos of her in the studio using a 47. Also Im pretty sure Katy Perry uses a u47 too. I think Kesha actually uses a sm58 and Usher and Taio a c800g. I do agree however that the u87 is a good all rounder and if I could only own one that would probably be it or 47. I think you really need an 87, 47, and c800g to cover your bases though in pop.

Hey,

Gaga: u47/u87 (Just Dance is a u87).
Katy Perry: u47, but Manley Ref C for California Girls, etc everything done with Dr. Luke.
Kesha: Manley Ref C
Tayo and Usher: c800g yes, and Drake, Kanye, Lil Wayne, Dre, Eminem etc etc, so many basically, Mariah Carey, Ashley Tisdale, Jon Bon Jovi etc etc.
u87: Timbaland, Keri Hilson, Nicki Minaj, Gucci Mane, Akon (but he uses c800g as well, depends on the track), Bruno Mars, Pink, but Eminem too.

[abechap024]

u87s are known garbage. Everyone get rid of yours while you can....on ebay.....all at once!!

[bee]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

this may be the most ridiculous thread started by a moderator.

I concur 200%

[drBill]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

the uber-mic of their dreams. It's kind of surpassed the C800-G in this respect.

Thank God!!! I'd take an 87 any day over a C800-G.

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

And, I just want people to know it will NOT make them sound amazing like they may believe.

There is NO piece of gear that does that kind of magic. NONE! The magic is in the fingers or vocal chords. Beginning and end of story. Gear helps, but it doesn't make music.

Originally Posted by bee

I concur 200%

I'll take your 200% and raise you another 200%. For a forum under tighter moderation, that's trying to get rid of trolling and the riff-raff, that hands out infractions like candy, I find it more than just odd, I find it......um, fascinatingly bizzare. Do moderators ever get infractions for stirring things up??

[killadaninja]

U87`s Are good mic`s simply for the reason`s stated, surely a mic that sounds pretty good on pretty much anything can be called a good mic?

Anyhow if someone said to me I was allowed 1 mic for the rest of my life it would be U67, which for vox I pick over a U47 9/10

U67 => Neve 1073 => CL1B => PRICELESS

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

I have found the 87 to sound good on singers with GREAT tone. Nice smooth tone, absent of a lot of grit.

On singers that have this, it can get pretty nasty sometimes... IMHO of course.

edit: In short, I feel like this is a mic you cannot hide behind. If you sound kinda on the crappy side, it will display that nicely.

However, if the singer is a smooth sounding female, or a male ala the Beatlesque McCartney tone, it works VERY well.

Also kicks ass on most nice acoustic gtrs too.

I think it tends to bring out roughness sometimes, and can accentuate it some.

Remember a lot of the singers that used this mic back in the day with success, had AMAZING voices. They were filtered through the "machine", and selected for a record contract.

Today, we have whomever using them and releasing their material on the web. Whomever may not have the golden vocal tone that the old school artists had, and were selected by A&R cats for.

Just saying.

In all, I like the mic. If the singer has a so-so tone, sometimes not my choice.

Notice I say tone here, because I feel like this matters. There is a lot of great material where the singer's tone was not stellar, but the performance, delivery, feel, and musicality won out in the end.

Whatever, it's just a mic after all.

I like old 87's, newer ai's not as much.

john

[Diegel]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

Hey,

Gaga: u47/u87 (Just Dance is a u87).
Katy Perry: u47, but Manley Ref C for California Girls, etc everything done with Dr. Luke.
Kesha: Manley Ref C
Tayo and Usher: c800g yes, and Drake, Kanye, Lil Wayne, Dre, Eminem etc etc, so many basically, Mariah Carey, Ashley Tisdale, Jon Bon Jovi etc etc.
u87: Timbaland, Keri Hilson, Nicki Minaj, Gucci Mane, Akon (but he uses c800g as well, depends on the track), Bruno Mars, Pink, but Eminem too.

Great info. I was curious about Bruno Mars. His vocals sound killer. When I first heard his tracks I was like hmm I wonder what mic uses. Lol glad to hear its a u87. Where did you get all the info from? I read somewhere that Kesha used a 58 on a lot of her tracks. Could have been false info of course.

[Frenchie Smith]

Originally Posted by LisaSmile

a 414 or an SM7 are beter mics to purchse than an 87???


87 is a massive bummer????

a 67 will capture more god-like sonics???


you need a break from this place.

Yes,
A U67 is a much "Beter" mic.
Here to help guys and gals alike.
The U87ai costs a lot for what it gives.
I'm glad you found your favorite mic.
I just wouldn't advise anyone to purchase u87 ai, older models are way cooler.
Or wait, save to get a vintage U67.
it's on another level

[Frenchie Smith]

Originally Posted by Scradge

TBH an OLDER 414 and an SM7 ARE better purchases than an U87, but only from the point of view that there are more people that suit those two mics over the U87, and your more likly to be able to afford them when your first starting out.
Hell I payed 80 quid for my C414-ULS. but no matter who I put that baby infront of i can get a great sound, and colour it by using a different preamp.

Job done.

Just out of interest, what Neumann mics (apart from a U67) ARE any good? Coming from a guy whos only used a 104 and a U87.

Try Fet 47's, km 84's, km 56
U47, 64's!!
Those rock!

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Frenchie Smith

Or wait, save to get a vintage U67.
it's on another level

It not just a different level, it's a different mic. Just because they look similar and share that magic number "7", the 67 is not a "better" 87, and really shouldn't be put in a "better comparison" analogy. It is a different mic completely, and as such, will be either better or worse on any particular source depending on what you're looking for.

[otobianki74]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

The fact is... the U87 will almost NEVER sound great unless the person turning the knobs is capable of making it sound great.

not in my experience in my room. though, it could just be due to the fact that signal is running through my modded pm1000 pres.

[88fingerz]

when someone bashes the U 87 quickly run the other way fast! Wonder if the cat was a Neumann dealer, how would the mic fare then?

Hmmm I say!

[88fingerz]

P.S.
The u 87 wows me with its incredible sound.

[JinMaikeul]

I get where the OP is trying to go with this, but this thread seems just unnecessarily inflammatory (The title in particular.).. :/

The title states that "The U87 is NOT a Good Sounding Mic." but then the OP just goes on to say that it actually does sound good, but there are often better choices available depending on the specific situation which is really not saying a whole lot since that can be said of any mic. Also, no real examples are given in regard to alternative mics that would do better. All the reader is left with is "try out a whole bunch of stuff and experiment" which even as a novice is a somewhat obvious statement to make...

I'm not going to comment on the U87 since I've had limited experience with it (certainly not enough to form any strong opinions), but I will certainly question the OP's intentionally inflammatory title and overall tone since it seems much more geared toward baiting out a response and trying to cause controversy than being an honest effort to inform people with misconceptions.

What confuses me most, however, is that when actually asked for an example of an alternative, of all the mics in the world you mention the SM57 which pretty much sits squarely where you claim the U87 sits: a versatile workhorse that will sound anywhere between adequate to good on a lot of stuff, but not particular amazing on anything.

[QuadWing]

Well that's a way to make a statement. U47 > U87 though.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by JinMaikeul

I get where the OP is trying to go with this, but this thread seems just unnecessarily inflammatory (The title in particular.).. :/

The title states that "The U87 is NOT a Good Sounding Mic." but then the OP just goes on to say that it actually does sound good, but there are often better choices available depending on the specific situation which is really not saying a whole lot since that can be said of any mic. Also, no real examples are given in regard to alternative mics that would do better. All the reader is left with is "try out a whole bunch of stuff and experiment" which even as a novice is a somewhat obvious statement to make...

I'm not going to comment on the U87 since I've had limited experience with it (certainly not enough to form any strong opinions), but I will certainly question the OP's intentionally inflammatory title and overall tone since it seems much more geared toward baiting out a response and trying to cause controversy than being an honest effort to inform people with misconceptions.

I think I probably should have titled it "The U87 is NOT a Great Sounding Microphone!"... My definition of good is not the same as others and many would call my good = great, excellent, etc.

BTW, I never said it sounds good... At it's very best, I believe it's an above average sounding mic in certain situations.

[TonyBelmont]

So who are all these amazing virtual singers who in reality have no clue that you are so concerned about?

You don't think people that can actually sing can try out microphones and come to their own conclusions?

Sadly, no... I don't think as many people try out mics nowadays..

[JinMaikeul]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I think I probably should have titled it "The U87 is NOT a Great Sounding Microphone!"... My definition of good is not the same as others and many would call my good = great, excellent, etc.

Probably

BTW, I never said it sounds good... At it's very best, I believe it's an above average sounding mic in certain situations.

Fair enough, but I find it difficult to believe that you seriously think that the U87 is NEVER a good sounding microphone on ANY source and that the absolute best it could possibly be is "above average". And if sounding good on SOME sources doesn't make something a "good sounding microphone", then what does (since nothing sounds good on everything)? And if we're to judge a microphone as sounding good or bad based on whether it happens to be good in a specific situation, then you could theoretically say that nearly every microphone is a "good sounding microphone" since just about every somewhat decent microphone microphone will sound good on SOMETHING.

I'm hoping you sort of see where I'm going with this and why I feel like you're just saying a whole lot of nothing in the end...

It really seems like you're just annoyed about people spending $3000 or having unrealistic expectations than anything else. If that's the case, you could have just made a thread about that rather than go down this route.

Reading through the thread a little, the Ferrari example is pretty relevant because the same type of discussions often come up on car enthusiast forums. People will say that Ferraris are bad cars or overrated because you could just rice out a Honda to do the quarter mile faster, tune a Miata to handle better, drift better in a 240SX, and get 90% of the overall track performance for $30k in a 370Z or whatever. All while entirely missing the point as far as why exactly it is that Ferraris are amazing machines...

[bpsrepair]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Sadly, no... I don't think as many people try out mics nowadays..

While some seem to be annoyed with this thread, I think it makes an extremely valid point. It would be very easy for a guy who's never used a U87, even if he has some experience recording, to read the various posts on GS and elsewhere and become convinced that the reason his vocal recordings never sounded as good as the ones on his favorite albums is that he doesn't have a U87.

And you're right, Tony. In my experience it's been impossible to try out mics before I buy them. There's a Guitar Center in my town, but I've never seen them loan out a high end piece of gear for a trial. There are probably a few well equipped studios within driving distance, but when it comes down to it, paying them for a few hours to test mics wouldn't tell me how the microphone would perform with my equipment which is bound to be much lower end than what they have. Not to mention that most of the time, if I spent the money on the testing, I wouldn't be able to afford the mic anymore. I don't know, maybe I just don't know who to ask, but still, I've bought quite a few mics and I've never tried a single one of them until I owned them. My gear purchases have always followed a bunch of online research, but no hands on trial.

Many of us who don't have access to high end gear and nice mics can get carried away thinking "if I just had this, if I just had that..." and to some degree I'm sure we're right. But it's always good to get a reminder that there's no magic solution.

A better tech could come in and make me look bad even if he had to use my low-end gear and my limited mic selection. That means that while there's always better gear, maybe the best way to improve my recordings is to improve myself.

Thanks Tony, for the reminder.

bps

[JinMaikeul]

Originally Posted by bpsrepair

And you're right, Tony. In my experience it's been impossible to try out mics before I buy them. There's a Guitar Center in my town, but I've never seen them loan out a high end piece of gear for a trial.

It's called a 30-day return policy and assuming you make the return, it's effectively free. Take advantage of it... Just be sure to keep all of the original packaging so they can't hit you with a restocking fee.

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I just wanted to get things closer to reality.
/.../

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

There is a fairly sizable percentage of people who have never used a U87 and think that it is the ultimate mic...

This is definitely true.
But it's also just as true of a zillion other products being written about, pontificated about, raved about and drooled about or dismissed and brutally bashed here on this site - mics (various makes & models, definitely not only Neumann, definitely not only the U87) , preamps, eqs, compressors, tubes, analogue desks, tape recorders, multitracks, tape formulations, etc etc - possibly plugins being the sole exception, as nowadays they are all too easy to "get hold of" - cracked & pirated, even & especially for the typical forum inhabitant/virtual gear maniac.
So, being a moderator on this site, if U were just as zealously to filter out & weed out all such pretty useless & mistyfying talking/typing without actual factual and/or hands-on knowledge, U'd trim & slim this whole site down to maybe 1/40th of its' current size.

On the other hand, there are tens & hundreds of good, serious, working engineers who actually aren't on GS, don't have the time nor inclination to have an avatar, a nickname and type thousands of posts, and couldn't give a toss if 1, 10, 100 or 1 million people drool over the U87 or crap all over it in this virtual typing-only parallel universe.
They just use their U87s (on many, many records & sources, indeed, as many have already pointed out here), and obviously any other microphone they might think of or find useful or suitable or brilliant or even just handy at the moment.
And get the(ir) job done.

So "crusades" here online, including the ones to "get things closer to reality", are to be taken with & put into perspective, in my opinion & experience.

A
F

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

I totally disagree.

The U87 will sound great if a great vocalist or player is giving a great performance.

And the less knobs being turned the better.

There's a reason why the U87 is a broadcast/voice-over standard. If you want a transparent sound with good presence then it will be a good choice.

Whether a different mic will 'make up' for say a thin voice by adding grit and 'warmth' is another question and a high possibility these days but again you can't blame the U87 for that. It's a mic that came from an era where one could at least assume that people knew what they were doing and were ready to perform when they booked studio time.

Great statement.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by JinMaikeul

It's called a 30-day return policy and assuming you make the return, it's effectively free. Take advantage of it... Just be sure to keep all of the original packaging so they can't hit you with a restocking fee.

Guitar Center does not allow the return of microphones.

[Frenchie Smith]

Originally Posted by JinMaikeul

It's called a 30-day return policy and assuming you make the return, it's effectively free. Take advantage of it... Just be sure to keep all of the original packaging so they can't hit you with a restocking fee.

Hi mate
I think they have a different policy on select items.
Such as a $3000 mic.
Seriously. It'd be awesome if you could do a 30 day trial on them.

[scruffydog]

yeahh...i got a U87....and it sounds like it sounds....there are others i suppose...this thread is stupid...plenty of hits have been recorded with a U87 and plenty of sounds have been captured on one too, from rooms to toms to voices and on and on....perhaps only because it was the best around at that crucial moment but still...i notice many people don't have one....but many do...well...I do anyhow.
I think recording is complicated and simple at the same time...the guy i bought mine from got the 67....and i got a good deal and a better mic than i had expected....blah..

[JinMaikeul]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Guitar Center does not allow the return of microphones.

That's a flat out lie (Edit: At least in NYC). I've returned plenty of microphones at Guitar Center. Just two months ago I returned an AT4040 after trying it out for like a week just for kicks.

Originally Posted by Frenchie Smith

Hi mate
I think they have a different policy on select items.
Such as a $3000 mic.
Seriously. It'd be awesome if you could do a 30 day trial on them.

No they don't (except for software, I think where License Keys are involved and I remember one instance where they refused to take back fog fluid). Some of the workers will pretend like they do and at worst you might have to talk to a manager, but it's the same thing. Most of the time when dealing with expensive items, they'll try to find a way to charge you the restocking fee, but as long as you're careful about packing it exactly how it came, you won't get charged that. I've seen people buy thousands of dollars worth of equipment just to use it for a gig and return it the next week. The workers hate it because they lose out on their commissions, but that's about it.

Also if you feel like Guitar Center is a hassle, there are plenty of other stores and companies out there that have similar return policies that you can take advantage of. Flat out, you should never end up unsatisfied with the money you're spending. If you do, it's more than likely your own fault.

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting that people ABUSE this policy like the people buying equipment to use it for a gig. It's important to maintain a good relationship with the sales people if you plan on being a regular customer. However, if you ARE in the market to buy a microphone or some other piece of gear, there's absolutely nothing wrong with returning things that you're not satisfied with. That's part of why return policies exist in the first place. As long as you show them you're a serious customer and not just a person jerking them around for shits and giggles, they really won't give you a problem from my experience. I've personally seen GC sales associates sit there and set up a TLM 103 or a U87 in the store for the occasional customer to demo as long as they thought there was a real chance to make the sale. Written policies or whatnot, 99% of it is about how you approach them.