The U87 is NOT a Very Good Sounding Microphone!

[Ketster]

[QUOTE=TonyBelmont;6959159].. and all of those recordings had talented people who were able to squeeze a great sound out of an adequate microphone... I'm sorry, but I am so SICK of people giving the gear credit for the great recordings of 40 years ago. The talented people turning the knobs were responsible for the great (and bad) recordings of that era. It wasn't a particular microphone or a compressor..


(I've arrived late to this thread, so forgive me if my points have been covered)

1) 40 years ago, people didn't use surgical eq to remove issues from particular mics. Mixing was totally not done in that way. Sure there were talented people but they certainly weren't trying to eq the crap out of an 87! If they didn't like a mic's sound, they stuck up another. Remember there were no "one-mic" home studio's in the 70's. Studio's were big and had well stocked mic cupboards.

2) The U87's reputation is based on it being a good choice to stick up without having to try tons of others BECAUSE it is rare that it makes anything sound bad (in comparison to other LDC's) . There are many articles written by experts to this effect.

3) Btw I love the new definition of the word ' Moderate' Tony

M

[GordoBot]

I have to say I like the U87.
It just works well on vocal and acoustic.

By the way, on the subject of mics... Here is a weird one...

"M-Audio Sputnik"... I got to hear one in action and I was really impressed!

M-Audio is not the name you think of when you think microphone, but I was genuinely impressed.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

I never had 3! Just produced a couple of artists and then I was good to buy it.

Ah, so you already had everything else you needed, plus your parents were paying your rent. Got it!

JSL

[Ward Pike]

Originally Posted by jslevin

Ah, so you already had everything else you needed, plus your parents were paying your rent. Got it!

JSL

OUCH!

[Baz]

I agree with this. I didn't find the TLM67 to be anything like my U87i and it was for sure darker (in a good way) than any 87 I've used.

It also didn't suffer the sibilance issues in areas where 87's do.

I actually really really liked this mic and would love to have my own. It can sound surprisingly rich on some voices.

I've never used a real 67.

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

Well, the TLM67 is a very dark microphone compared to the U87 or U87ai. That might work for the very rare vocalist who is way too bright and has little low mid or low end in his/her voice... but my experiences are that If I use a flat or dark microphone on the vast majority of vocalists, I have to cut low end, some 250 and 500... and even boost some top end.

If I'm dealing with stacked backing vocals, I'll have to exaggerate this process even further.

[ttown23]

Originally Posted by NeumannCollecta

Agree to disagree. I own an 87ai and a TLM67 and feel the TLM has more "presence" than the 87ai and would never consider it darker than my 87, and certainly not darker than a vintage 87. Perhaps I'll post some samples. And to me the TLM67 had more sibilance.

I agree completely. On acoustic guitar I was hard-pressed to tell much if any difference between a vintage U87 and a TLM67. I never got around to any vocal comparisons, but on acoustic guitar, little difference.

[Jerz3455]

ahahahah!!! I just saw the title of this thread and had to laugh.. OUT LOUD..

k.. bye

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by Jerz3455

ahahahah!!! I just saw the title of this thread and had to laugh.. OUT LOUD..

k.. bye

You must own a few then!

[Ward Pike]

Originally Posted by Jerz3455

ahahahah!!! I just saw the title of this thread and had to laugh.. OUT LOUD..

k.. bye

You and I both!

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

You and I both!

Heres one for sale for you,better grab it its old.No broken nipples either.Do they get hard if you turn the temp down?Or do they hang low because they are old?


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...umann-u87.html

[ttown23]

Originally Posted by Jerz3455

ahahahah!!! I just saw the title of this thread and had to laugh.. OUT LOUD..

k.. bye

Yes. I think that is a healthy attitude toward this thread

[Jean30]

I used it to record classic music in ORTF stereo couple and it was very good in all situations, if you put it at the good place, obviously.

I search to buy a similar all use microphone with a lower budget (cardioid only), and listened Oktava MK101 and Sennheiser MK4, they seemed neutral and good polar pattern, especially for the MK4. The MK101 seemed to have less sibilance and strange polar pattern with medium frequencies. Does something have an advice or an experience about that ?

The main problem of U87, is the price and the fact that 4 or 6 times cheaper products can make a good job. I just except many products wich have too much sibilance and for that, U87 is good.

[Ward Pike]

Originally Posted by Jean30

I used it to record classic music in ORTF stereo couple and it was very good in all situations, if you put it at the good place, obviously.

Very curious. Many years of recording with U87s have led me to the conclusion that AB or MS are the only effective stereo techniques for recording with U87s. I must try ORTF again... and experiment with placement. Suggestions welcome.

Originally Posted by Jean30

The main problem of U87, is the price and the fact that 4 or 6 times cheaper products can make a good job. I just except many products wich have too much sibilance and for that, U87 is good.

In your humble opinion, correct? Because for many of us, there is something in the sound of the U87 that does not present itself until you are at the final mix stage and then produces a big smile on your face accompanied by a feeling of relief that you used it.

[Jean30]

It was some times ago and I was rather surprised with that (You will smile, but it was the only available microphones, just a pair of U87, not the worse choice !!)

It was in a middle concert place, rather warm with public inside and placement was good at 2/3 distance from the front and 2 meters high in the center from left/right walls, but very precise distance from stage, it was a question of less than 1 meter. Everything flat, and it needed to change the first mixing console (a Tascam) wich had too much diaphony (even using distant inputs), for a Soundcraft wich gaves good results. I remember 17 cm distance between the couple, but not 110°, less, around 100° and cardio diagram, no level attenuation, for the low frequencies cut, I dont remember.

I agree with you about this microphone (and not with the title of the post). Equalisations have sometimes destructive effects and U87 needs a good placement to avoid that, but now, with plugins, we can obtain absolute linear filters (or others), some cheaper microphones have rather specific uses (for voices) but can have extended use with good eq, main problem is uncontrolled sybilance and sometimes unequal or strange polar response. So because U87 has not big accidents for the frequencies response, it's easier to use it.

I certainly will buy an Oktava MK101 or Sennheiser MK4 to test it for piano, guitar and general use, and now I'm using a Superlux S502 (bought 98Euros), I have not a systematic bad opinion about cheap products (even if everything is copied from Schoeps in this case), but obviously, a U 87 would be welcome at home, just a little more expensive !!!

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

Very curious. Many years of recording with U87s have led me to the conclusion that AB or MS are the only effective stereo techniques for recording with U87s. I must try ORTF again... and experiment with placement. Suggestions welcome.

I can't speak to ORTF, but despite my generally withering view of the U87ai, I've used it a few times recently as the M/S side mic (usually with a Gefell M300 as the mid) on our Steinway, and I've been quite pleased with the results. I am "stuck" with this mic for a while but have found it quite useful in this application. Also a good kick mic in a pinch. Again, a very fine mic for secondary or "depth" applications, just not appropriately priced for that role. It's never going to get the call for a lead vocal in our shop, not with a briefcase of BLUE Bottlecaps around.

In your humble opinion, correct? Because for many of us, there is something in the sound of the U87 that does not present itself until you are at the final mix stage and then produces a big smile on your face accompanied by a feeling of relief that you used it.

I have to tell you, that statement comes across as 80% rationalization. Assuming that you're a total pro who knows what he's (or she's) doing, then you should have learned by now to recognize "what you really want" at the tracking stage. And as with every other rationalization of this mic or any other gear, it relies heavily if not entirely on not drawing comparisons with other mics -- because that would disrupt all the "magic."

JSL

[Ward Pike]

Originally Posted by jslevin

I have to tell you, that statement comes across as 80% rationalization. Assuming that you're a total pro who knows what he's (or she's) doing, then you should have learned by now to recognize "what you really want" at the tracking stage. And as with every other rationalization of this mic or any other gear, it relies heavily if not entirely on not drawing comparisons with other mics -- because that would disrupt all the "magic."

JSL

Yes, thank you for the recognition. I am a professional and I've been at this for 30 years now. You know, even in a perfect recording world with the perfect client with the perfect voice (for the U87) you still make subjective choices and often wonder if you made the right decision at the tracking stage.

That's what I like about it. Sure at times I wished I had picked a different Neumann or others from my locker, but at least it's a solid professional sounding microphone that never fails to sit right in the mix.

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

but at least it's a solid professional sounding microphone that never fails to sit right in the mix.

But like wine,the vintage may or may not go with dinner.So unless you have a bouquet to choose from,which most can't afford or find,you may end up with grape juice(U87ai) or vinegar(modded wrong) instead.So yours may sit in your mixes but that may be an anomaly.

[Jean30]

My ears becomes more and more vintage, with a progressive loss in high frequencies !!!

[Ward Pike]

Originally Posted by jean30

my ears becomes more and more vintage, with a progressive loss in high frequencies !!!

best comment of the thread!! Lmao

(curious. Cap locks no longer work here meaning you can't make an upper case comment for an abbreviation like lol, lmao, brb etc... progress?)

[Voyage.One]

Here we go again.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

You know, even in a perfect recording world with the perfect client with the perfect voice (for the U87) you still make subjective choices and often wonder if you made the right decision at the tracking stage.

Fair enough.

[Jean30]

It's not about U87 but an awfull experience !!!
Read that, you will have fun.

Perhaps my biggest mistake in my sound recording work !!!

Some older man than me and my beautifull girl had to make comments on the stage about classical music. He was well known of the public and made some TV shows about classic music, big culture and respect.

So, I had a look on the 2 U87 to see if everything was good, and I saw this horrible old man having an insistant look to my girl friend. Oh, this bad man was now sittiing close to my blonde and nice love. Aarrrghhh.

I had to put on this horrible man a small HF speech microphone (perhaps a Sennheiser) and I had his foul breath in my nose, a real supplice.

So I was really disturbed, but suddenly, he was not here and I came back to the record room.

I controlled some details and made just a small mistake putting the wrong button on the mixing console. A strange noise made me going into the concert room (nearly full) and I realised that some sound were in the speakers.

Oh big mistake, I was afraid with an uncontrolled Larsen but, it was a ENORMOUS NOISE of urine stream, followed by the noise of the flush.

My horrible old man, was just in the water closed with his HF working and the speakers in the concert room with a good volume.

I ran into the cabin to stop the disaster, but the old man arrived before me and had the full public applauses (He thought it was because he was famous). Obviously, I had a strange reflex and cut the bad button, so he had 5 second of silence just when he begans his speech, Arf Arf.

My not calculated revenge was another problem with the battery of the HF (2nd cut !!!).

I never remember having such a giggling (at least 1 hour, I was hidden in the control room during this time)

This poor old man died two years later and I hope this bad experience had no effect for that.

End of the story and morality :
Now, in 1 or 2 decades more, I willl be as old as this man !!!
My beautifull girl leaves me and run away with a married man some years later
My beautifull girl, is certainly less beatifull than before (and me too !!)

I have a great care with my teeth, because if you have a bad breath :
- You will never have a date with beautifull girls
- Perhaps you will die in 2 years, because you certainly becomes rotten inside

It's a true story.

Jean.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Ketster

The U87's reputation is based on it being a good choice to stick up without having to try tons of others BECAUSE it is rare that it makes anything sound bad (in comparison to other LDC's) . There are many articles written by experts to this effect.

I guess I must be one of them... Because, I said the EXACT same thing on the first page.

[baskervils]

Yep, we should re-name this thread "The u87 sounds good in front of just about everybody and everything"

That is my experience, anyway.

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by baskervils

Yep, we should re-name this thread "The u87 sounds good in front of just about everybody and everything"

That is my experience, anyway.

"Good" being the key word in that sentence.If good is what you are going for,but great is better.But to reiterate,which U87 would that be?What vintage?This is where the real problem with this mic lies.

Here is an example with pictures-

Revisions of Neumann U87, differences, and sound

And here is a thread with Gearslutz finest weighing in(Lugo,Jules)-

Does anyone have a good word for the U87?

[Voyage.One]

Can someone please kill this thread already?

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by Voyage.One

Can someone please kill this thread already?

The other one I posted went from 2005 to 2009.This one started in aug 2011 so in comparison is still in its infancy.I am just waiting to see someone use that new post recycler here.

[PRobb]

Originally Posted by krheatman

The other one I posted went from 2005 to 2009.This one started in aug 2011 so in comparison is still in its infancy.I am just waiting to see someone use that new post recycler here.

I think everything since about the middle of page 2 has been recycled posts.

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by PRobb

I think everything since about the middle of page 2 has been recycled posts.

I think a thread shredder would be a better tool.

[baskervils]

Originally Posted by krheatman

"Good" being the key word in that sentence.If good is what you are going for,but great is better.But to reiterate,which U87 would that be?What vintage?This is where the real problem with this mic lies.

Here is an example with pictures-

Revisions of Neumann U87, differences, and sound

And here is a thread with Gearslutz finest weighing in(Lugo,Jules)-

Does anyone have a good word for the U87?

Frankly, the u87ai sounds so good and so accurate on the sources that I record, I can't imagine another mic being MORE accurate and pleasing. How's that?

One of the shoot-outs on Gearslutz pitted a vintage u87 vs a u87ai. The difference was so negligible, that a slight EQ adjustment would make both mics sound exactly the same.

U87 vs. U87ai Shootout