Mastering should be called something that sounds less serious.

[Go Nigel Go]

Louderizing?

[jabney]

Originally Posted by Go Nigel Go

Louderizing?

Gearslutz doesn't have a 'Recommend' button: otherwise, I'd rec your comment.

best,

john

[binarymilton]

(sticking) plastering.

[rolo]

how about.... Mabstureeng sounds a little silly like that... all seriousness gone.

I used to take a stroll on the mastering forum here on gs, i very quickly realized that you must insert a huge stick in your bum upon entering that sub forum.... WAAAYYYY to uptight in there.

anyhow, several years ago, i got suckered into mastering for local bands. a few peeps heard my own releases liked the sound of my cds, i master my own stuff. anyhow, i've been mixing/mastering ever since.

one thing i hate is how Mastering Engineers inflate their egos and talk about their Holy Grail boxes and how Difficult it is to master... bull$$$$.

I you have a good sounding room, good monitors and a good assortment of tools to carve, add color, etc and KNOW how to use them...
You sir, can be a mastering engineer too.

If the content was recorded and mixed well, all a mastering engineer really has to do is set the proper order, fades and maintain proper volume from one song to the next to make a smooth cohesive piece or art, or piece of sh$$ depending on the listener, of course.

And to all the newby mastering engineers out there... there IS a wonderful thing called dynamics.... it's when a song builds and digresses throughout the song.... it's also when a listener actually has a positive reaction when turning UP the volume of a player instead of wanting to turn it down because it's been maximized, smashed, crashed, bashed, mashed, sassafrassed and more with the latest and greatest plug in/hardware for mastering.

[MadforBrad]

Originally Posted by rolo

one thing i hate is how Mastering Engineers inflate their egos and talk about their Holy Grail boxes and how Difficult it is to master... bull$$$$.

.

i don't think it is about ego. the ME is where the buck stops and that is alot of responsibility. Even if he is handed a shit mix, if the end product is not up to par, the ME is the person blamed regardless.

It requires the sort of technical knowledge perhaps a mixing engineer might have but what separates them is their ability to just pay attention to small details for long periods of time. I respect that.

I think their role, depending on the realm of music is getting quite frustrating. The quality of mixes even in the pop realm have drastically become quite awful and i honestly don't know how they deal with that. It must be hard knowing that the product could be so much better if everyone along the process were doing amazing work.

[-tc-]

Originally Posted by rolo

I you have a good sounding room, good monitors and a good assortment of tools to carve, add color, etc and KNOW how to use them...
You sir, can be a mastering engineer too.

Indeed, but you won't necessarily be a very good one. It's one thing knowing how to use tools, it's another thing being able to apply those tools with appropriate flair ... it's really not the same as mixing ... requires a very different mindset ime ... I'm rubbish at it, and I'm usually not too bad at this audio malarkey

I think someone said this already - if you're prepping singles for digital release, then yeah, you can easily get away with no traditional 'mastering'. If you're working on an album then it becomes a more involved process; ensuring balanced and appropriate temporal and tonal continuity across the release is really important, and a set of relatively impartial ears in a room absent of console filtering effects is a better way of getting that done ...

If you can do it then that's cool ... I can't so, when appropriate I'll be ringing up one of these enigmatic MEs, cz I'll be wanting the best for my projects ...

... I see Brad's got it covered already

Originally Posted by rolo

i very quickly realized that you must insert a huge stick in your bum upon entering that sub forum.... WAAAYYYY to uptight in there.

They put up with me posting in there occasionally, so they can't be that uptight ... there's generally a lot more professionalism there than the rest of the forum. There and "Remote Possibilities..." are the ones for getting reliable info imo.

[bobsandifer]

Mastering? Why did waves put the L1 in my bundle? Doesn't that make it really loud?

[famousbass]

Sudordinating

[Dean Roddey]

"Getting Paid to Play with Cool Toys" maybe?

[-tc-]

no that's producing ...

[famousbass]

Originally Posted by bobsandifer

Mastering? Why did waves put the L1 in my bundle? Doesn't that make it really loud?

Well, you know how it is.
The L1 comes and goes in Waves.
(ouch)

[famousbass]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

"Getting Paid to Play with Cool Toys" maybe?

No, that's Molecular Biology.

[Lrmusic]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

"Getting Paid to Play with Cool Toys" maybe?

No, that's masturbation.

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by Lrmusic

No, that's masturbation.

Does that mean I'm a great producer?

[rolo]

Well, I used to think a little differently about mastering and mastering engineers, but the bubble got deflated over the course of a few years where I paid and paid heavily for my songs as well as songs, i produced to be mastered by "The Pros"... yup pick three names of the big 10 in mastering... i elected to have them master my stuff. And in all those efforts, I, as well as the others involved in the music were put off with the results. In one occasion... outraged.

Only after three different revisions were we ok with the result... and we had to pay for the third... lame.

The other two, I took a stab at it and got better results... I say better as in, all of us got what we originally were looking for.

Maybe the big dogs were having a bad day... a bad hangover... maybe they passed the project to a second or third engineer... who knows, but after those very expensive lessons, i've not bothered having someone else DO my work since.

Originally Posted by timlloyd

Indeed, but you won't necessarily be a very good one. It's one thing knowing how to use tools, it's another thing being able to apply those tools with appropriate flair ... it's really not the same as mixing ... requires a very different mindset ime ... I'm rubbish at it, and I'm usually not too bad at this audio malarkey

I think someone said this already - if you're prepping singles for digital release, then yeah, you can easily get away with no traditional 'mastering'. If you're working on an album then it becomes a more involved process; ensuring balanced and appropriate temporal and tonal continuity across the release is really important, and a set of relatively impartial ears in a room absent of console filtering effects is a better way of getting that done ...

If you can do it then that's cool ... I can't so, when appropriate I'll be ringing up one of these enigmatic MEs, cz I'll be wanting the best for my projects ...

... I see Brad's got it covered already



They put up with me posting in there occasionally, so they can't be that uptight ... there's generally a lot more professionalism there than the rest of the forum. There and "Remote Possibilities..." are the ones for getting reliable info imo.

[Lrmusic]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Does that mean I'm a great producer?

Some producers create a load, some just handle the vibe.

[Go Nigel Go]

...and some just jiggle the handle.

[janjaal]

i just read a few first comments of this topic....

1 performing is important. 2 recording is important. 3 mixing is important. 4 mastering is important..

if you fack up in any of those 4 processes, your song doesn't have the full potential it's supposed to have at the end... none of them are more important then the others...
a great performer is a great performer, you can't bring a poor performer and expect magic.. unless he/she does the magic in performing...
recording is important, becuase it needs to capture the performance in a certain dynamic and gain stage that the performance magic doesn't sound bad... many amateurs think recording with the loudest volume (but not clipping) is gonna be good...
but when recording magic is happening, u need some magic tools for it.. so as magic tools for mixing...
and at the end. if u fack up in mastering (which the topic starter indicates is not that important), your whole track is ruined...
and surely there are magic tools for mastering as well... but those magic tools will ENHANCE the magical mix that was magically recorded by a magical performer...
if your track sounds crap before it gets mastered, it means not enough magic happened on it so far and no mastering magic will work on it...

[MikeTSH]

Originally Posted by Lrmusic

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[vincentvangogo]

Mistressing ?

[AllAboutTone]

I have a band that wants to know if I can add sub freq to there metal band, why don't they just play rap.

All these dumb bands that thinks they can hear that low, WTF...... I even had them bring in 15' speakers for guitar, it sounds horrible.

Anyways mastering can be the magic tool or kill a mix, I like a little 2 buss glue, what ever they do to it afterwords is there wagon.

[ljona]

Mastering is what it is. If people have problems get their head around it they don´t pay their psychiatrist enough.

[benherron.rrr]

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[themixtape]

I wholeheartedly agree here. I recorded a friend's music (for months) for basically free (because I loved working with her). She was VERY happy with the final result (my simple mastering / volume same-ness)... she took it to some mastering guy who made the entire record sound like crap, and thus... she didn't want to release ANY of the stuff I did for her at my home studio... and instead to go to a "real studio" (that guy didn't know what he was doing AT ALL)... I was so pissed and insulted.

She literally was THRILLED with my work... we'd drive around in my car listening to it, and in her car... and then when she took it to get "mastered"... ugh. What a joke. The mastering engineer also said "the source material is noisy, so I did my best" - by noisy he meant "hiss and hum from her vintage guitar amp" - she liked to record loudly - because other than that, there WAS no noise.

In my opinion, it's the song first, then the performance of it, then the room, then getting the levels equal between songs. Dynamics are definitely important... but really, I think mastering is the biggest scam since cell phones.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by themixtape

I wholeheartedly agree here. I recorded a friend's music (for months) for basically free (because I loved working with her). She was VERY happy with the final result (my simple mastering / volume same-ness)... she took it to some mastering guy who made the entire record sound like crap, and thus... she didn't want to release ANY of the stuff I did for her at my home studio... and instead to go to a "real studio" (that guy didn't know what he was doing AT ALL)... I was so pissed and insulted.

She literally was THRILLED with my work... we'd drive around in my car listening to it, and in her car... and then when she took it to get "mastered"... ugh. What a joke. The mastering engineer also said "the source material is noisy, so I did my best" - by noisy he meant "hiss and hum from her vintage guitar amp" - she liked to record loudly - because other than that, there WAS no noise.

In my opinion, it's the song first, then the performance of it, then the room, then getting the levels equal between songs. Dynamics are definitely important... but really, I think mastering is the biggest scam since cell phones.

Why are you judging everyone by one person's poor work?

[Joe Haze]

The band offered me $500.00 to mix ten songs. They even asked if I know any "mastering engineers". I said my friends charge about about $1500.00 for mastering..... The said GREAT!

[themixtape]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Why are you judging everyone by one person's poor work?

Good point. I'm just pissed off. I am sure there are great mastering engineers out there. I just don't know any or any companies who are worth the price of admission.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by themixtape

I wholeheartedly agree here. I recorded a friend's music (for months) for basically free (because I loved working with her). She was VERY happy with the final result (my simple mastering / volume same-ness)... she took it to some mastering guy who made the entire record sound like crap, and thus... she didn't want to release ANY of the stuff I did for her at my home studio... and instead to go to a "real studio" (that guy didn't know what he was doing AT ALL)... I was so pissed and insulted.

She literally was THRILLED with my work... we'd drive around in my car listening to it, and in her car... and then when she took it to get "mastered"... ugh. What a joke. The mastering engineer also said "the source material is noisy, so I did my best" - by noisy he meant "hiss and hum from her vintage guitar amp" - she liked to record loudly - because other than that, there WAS no noise.

In my opinion, it's the song first, then the performance of it, then the room, then getting the levels equal between songs. Dynamics are definitely important... but really, I think mastering is the biggest scam since cell phones.

If she thought your stuff was good then why didn't she just release it the way it was?

Not all mastering engineers are BAD as some on this forum would have you believe.

Just as in any professional situation sometimes the people involved don't reach a mutual understanding about what they want and the project doesn't go as planned. It happens to architects, it happens to photographers, it happens to graphic artist and it happens to musicians and recording or mastering engineers.

Sometimes when a client brings their material into my mastering room it is the first time they have really heard it. They hear the HVAC rumble or the tape hiss or the distortion or hum buzz from their "vintage" amplifier. It is not because it was not there but because the space where they listened to the finished tracks after they were recorded was slightly flawed in someway (lack of bass response, blown tweeters, room mode problems) and they never got a real listen until they got to my studio. I am also listening with fresh ears. I hear the slightly detuned guitar, the off pitch singer, the hum and buzz from their amplifier and bring it to the client's attention. If they tell me "that's the way I want it" I leave it alone. If they tell me "fix it" I do my best to try and minimize the problems.

I know when I was a recording engineer and we had just done the 15th take on a song I tended to minimize the problems I heard figuring I would "fix it in the mix" but somehow when it got to the mixing stage I either forgot about it or it became part of the fabric of the song and I glossed over it. Today when I master someone's material I don't have all the emotional baggage and hear it for the first time and some of the mistakes that were glossed over become very apparent.

If a mastering engineer is not doing what you want or how you want it done find someone else. There are lots of really GREAT mastering engineers that hang out on GS and I am sure would be happy to do the mastering.

Sorry about the problems you encountered but again NOT ALL MASTERING ENGINEERS are BAD...

Have a great weekend!

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by themixtape

Good point. I'm just pissed off. I am sure there are great mastering engineers out there. I just don't know any or any companies who are worth the price of admission.

Would you like some recommendations?

[Beat Poet]

That was a quality post by Lrmusic earlier in the thread Kids and small bands will always think of mastering as the holy grail, as it's just another thing that they can ask for to "make it sound good" . . . a bit like the misconception that a barrel-load of compression will make the music sound "fat".