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ITB: it's still a lie
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#61
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champ View Post
I agree 100% with the topic starter.

All these advertising about emulation are jokes.
YES plugins can sound good NO they don't sound like the real deal.

Do I find hardware more useful? NO
Do I find software more useful? NO
Do I like to work and create music with both? HELL YEAH!!!
Careful with all that sanity, dude. Yer gonna, like, totally freak people out.
#62
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot View Post
Slow day?
#63
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Are those links on the songs page -- or just the titles? I couldn't get anything to play.

:(
Ah, good to know that it's not working. Those are Quicktime files. Try reloading the page. If it still doesn't work would you mind PMing me what your computer setup is so I can trouble shoot? Still working out the site's kinks.

It could also be just that you need to download the Quicktime player: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/
Maybe I should link that on the page.

Thanks,
-R
#64
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael E View Post
Guys, please, post a links to your 100% ITB mixes.
Check out the most recent Black Keys album "Brothers". Mixed by Tchad Blake ITB. He even used some digital samples for some of the drums. Its got an amazing sound, as most of their stuff did. This was the first album where they really embraced digital.

Also Tom Petty's most recent album "Mojo". For being recorded and mixed ITB, it's has some amazing mojo for sure. They also cut the whole thing live in one room, in their rehearsal space they call "The Clubhouse". Not much acoustic treatment, if any. They had rugs on mic stands surrounding Tom while he cut live vocals. The album sound is amazing.

There are also a good deal of people mixing top chart hits ITB, out in Nashville. I could fire you a list of mixes, but that's what Google is for. Haha!

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#65
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #65
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Digital sucks.
#66
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Ah, good to know that it's not working. Those are Quicktime files. Try reloading the page. If it still doesn't work would you mind PMing me what your computer setup is so I can trouble shoot? Still working out the site's kinks.

Thanks,
-R
I was using Firefox 4 in XP and the songs just showed as rectangles with the titles in them. I tried again in Chrome and got blank rectangles where progress bars might be and got an error message when I clicked on one that I needed to upgrade my QuickTime. (Which took forever. And then required me to go through and undo all the file and MIME type settings Apple had helpfully coopted to repoint at Quicktime. I really hate it when media players do that. And QT is far from the only one that does.)

But, once updated, players showed up and played fine in Firefox and Chrome! (Although I had to give Chrome permission to open Quicktime.)

It might not be a bad idea to mention that it requires Quicktime -- as there are a number of Windows users who don't install it and might not otherwise realize those are even stream links (well, like me, except I just needed an update). I had a number of bad experiences (one very, very bad) with Quicktime over the years and it's only been the last few years that I've reluctantly been installing it.

I think, if I was concerned about being able to reach the widest number of people, I'd probably use a Flash player and download link. HTML5 will provide a nonproprietary way of providing pseudo-streaming of media content but it won't have any copy protection built in (although nothing to prevent DRM from being implemented by individual codecs). That would seem to suggest that folks will continue to use things like Flash in order to try to control dissemination of their content -- despite widespread misgivings and a growing number of mobile users who don't have the option of Flash. But we'll see. (In fact, over the last half day or so I've been experimenting with both HTML5-style multimedia and Flash content for some ad-rotator and slide show type implementations -- and, while I'd love to live in a post-Flash world (and already do on my Android, where I've been reluctant to install Flash), I'm afraid there are some things for which it has no real competitors, Silverlight's very impressive video performance notwithstanding.)
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#67
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #67
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It's amazing how difficult Apple makes everything by trying to make everything easier.

-R
#68
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCDBM View Post
Hi man, thanks for sharing your opinion and someone else his internet review. ever thought that outboard and VST's can share the same DA? (in my case SSL Madi AX) you're happy, good for u, but there is soo much more out there.
If you think about it logically, the DA from DAW to final playback will have no effect on our perception of the accuracy of the plugin vs relative hardware test. The DA will be the same for both the plugin and the hardware.

However the DA leaving the DAW, going to the hardware unit will have an effect on the perception of this test. The plugin doesn't have to make this conversion. Some AD converter might improve the sound, some might not make a difference, while others will degrade the sound. This compromises the ability for any of us to evaluate the test accurately. The hardware is gonna travel an extra signal path that the plugin wont.

The overall point i was trying to make, that you seem to disputed, was the effect of the AD originally used to capture a model of a piece of hardware. The AD used to capture the hardware model isn't your AD. So unless you use the exact AD setup that was used to capture the model, when setting up the hardware, your setup will sound different. Which further complicates the ability of a true accurate test.

Then there is the compounding fact that no two pieces of gear sound the same. And the secondary compounding fact that even new hardware built and designed after vintage units doesn't sound like the vintage units.

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#69
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #69
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We're not talking small differences here, rent an API2500 for the weekend and play with the waves API collection, then come back.
#70
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
It's amazing how difficult Apple makes everything by trying to make everything easier.

-R
Yeah... but Microsoft has got them beat by a ways on that front. The guys apparently running the Beat of Redmond have such a bad case of Mac envy that they seem at times in serious danger of making Windows unusable -- at least based on early word on Windows 8's new seriously dumbed-down, 'touch-friendly' interface. I don't think those guys understand that what makes sense on a tiny device with a 3"x1.75" screen is very likely to be an unnecessary impediment on a full size computer. Touch screens make very good sense on phones, where you want a screen that's as big as possible and where 'full' keyboards tiny enough to fit are so tiny as to be all but unusable. (Touch input is more than a bit of a drag, for sure, but it still beats the trackball and micro-tiny chiclet keys on my old BlackBerry. And... when I'm hitting the mark, Swype almost makes things fast... until I have to stop and correct something and then it's just a huge pain all over again.)
#71
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCDBM
...in the box isn't the same as hardware, etc...

You're right. Plug-ins DON'T sound exactly like analog hardware. I agree completely.

I still mix ITB 100%. My mixes sound great. I don't see any problems.



Thus concludes another episode of stating the obvious in a heckling manner in order to wind up controversy.
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#72
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb View Post
I really don't give a flying f*ck if the plug sounds exactly like the hardware.
Does it do something useful?
Can I use it creatively?
Does it help me make stuff sound good?
That's all.
- I agree

Once you understand what your hardware and plugins can do regardless of their "name" or "claim", can you then use them properly and for purposeful & creative intentions.
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#73
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #73
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Since 7 months I use only software for a period of time (rest waits).
I dont miss anything. I getting very lazy ... software makes me lazy
I guess. but that is good.

Software improved a lot over the last two years.
#74
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steab View Post
And you clearly never had the opportunity to really work with good emulation plugins or your narrow brain persuaded itself to believe what you wanted to be true.


Enjoy your ignorance skillfully framed in your virtual reality bias!

After working ITB for years, I switched to outboard and I will never look back.

I agree with OP, analog rules, digital is sterile, agressive, sibilant, annoying, harsh, lifeless, bottomless...do I need to go on?

I made the best songs ever on outboard gear. Digital is a never ending quest to get the "right" sound, yet it never happens.

ANALOG RULES!
#75
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #75
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I think plugins based on imagination. I wanna listen to a programmer of those companies. cant believe that binary variables can create so much, because even human beings must catch all the interdependences of real hardware. Tooooo much, all plugins are based on models! its like physics or chemistry.

when I process a stereo mix outboard, my mix will be larger (megabytes). same procedure with plugin will give me same size. so whats about this?
#76
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisbude View Post
I think plugins based on imagination. I wanna listen to a programmer of those companies. cant believe that binary variables can create so much, because even human beings must catch all the interdependences of real hardware.
Maybe you also don't believe a medium like a compact disk and the player behind it. How big are these interdependencies? A compressor analog output stage cannot drive the next stage without interaction?
#77
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisbude View Post
when I process a stereo mix outboard, my mix will be larger (megabytes). same procedure with plugin will give me same size. so whats about this?
pardon?
#78
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCDBM View Post
We're not talking small differences here, rent an API2500 for the weekend and play with the waves API collection, then come back.
Well, yeah.
Problem is, for the price of that weekend rental, you can own the plugs.
It would be lovely to live in a world where that was irrelevant.
However.....
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#79
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
Digital sucks.

LMFBO.


Ya ever read a thread of doom, and just hit a point in that thread where somebody says exactly the right/wrong thing at exactly the right/wrong time?

And it just strikes you in an INORDINATELY FUNNY way.

Ahh me.

Anyhoo.

I would also like to point out the person who I think is the clear front runner in this years "GS humility sweepstakes", from her contributions in this and other threads.

Poster enlightenedhand.

You can listen to recent examples of her mix work on-line at her website BTW.

And I encourage everyone who is interested in entering, or even casting a ballot, in the utterly fictitious, but maybe it shouldn't be(fictitious) "GS humility sweepstakes" to do so.

I certainly know who I'm voting for.

Best regards,

SM.
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#80
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCDBM View Post
Meticiously engineered, perfect emulation, most sought after hardware, sounds like outboard. Today after 15 years of VST(i) dissapointments i can confidently say: Plugins are still not there yet. And i doubt seriously if they will ever be.

Does that mean plugins are bad? NO definately not, they are good in certain things, however succesfully emulating hardware isn't one of them.

And everybody who tells differently has clearly never had the opprotunity to work with some high quality outboard.

There are many threads explaining pro's and cons in depth, just wanted to share above p.o.v.

Enjoy!
Lucky for me, I don't use plugs to emulate hardware.

I use plugs to do what they do. I use my hardware to do what it does. Sometimes I use plugs to augment the hardware and sometimes I use hardware to augment the plugs depending on the situation.

And in the end it helps me to not develop the small minded view you have.

Just wanted to share above p.o.v.


Frank
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#81
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ded4now View Post
This makes me wonder...

Is processed cheese supposed to 'replace' regular cheese, or 'simulate' it?

I bought some cheese last week that said it was 'simulated cheese' flavor... not sure if it was trying to REPLACE regular cheese or just provide a cheaper alternative or whatever.

This stuff confuses me...
Ded!

You LIVE!!!

What a paradox!!!

Great to see ya here buddy!!!

Hope all is well.

XOXOXO

Slippy
#82
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-cue View Post

Cue.

Nice avatar.

I think you need to post more so we can see it all the time.

BTW.

That picture is DISTURBING.

SM.
#83
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
pardon?
meant outboard processed bigger than inboard processed.
#84
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #84
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I know ...
#85
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
I know ...
Did I say something wrong? Than please correct my basics.
What is the reason of the different sizes?
#86
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #86
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different length, bit depth, sample rate ... not because you used analogue gear
#87
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ludaluda View Post
After working ITB for years, I switched to outboard and I will never look back.

I agree with OP, analog rules, digital is sterile, agressive, sibilant, annoying, harsh, lifeless, bottomless...do I need to go on?

I made the best songs ever on outboard gear. Digital is a never ending quest to get the "right" sound, yet it never happens.

ANALOG RULES!
So I guess with digital sounding so bad you could easily pick out a mix that was done ITB any time you hear it right?
#88
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tha]-[acksaw View Post
For being recorded and mixed ITB...
Gee, I'd like to see how they pulled THAT one off...

Sorry, couldn't resist!
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#89
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
different length, bit depth, sample rate ... not because you used analogue gear
was same length, same bit depth and same sample rate.
#90
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
  #90
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I absolutey love threads like this, because they are guarunteed to garner responses like this one.

Dude, do you really believe everything you read ? The fact is that none of us have any idea what was truly involved in making any of these recordings. They may have used nothing but a mackie 1604 and a few sm57s, or then again maybe there was a WALL of outboard in the chain BEFORE anything even made its way into the box that they just casually forgot to mention. The FACT is that we will never know !!

To say that any of these records are done ITB is a completely meaningless statement because if you were not there personally then you have NO IDEA what was actually done. Is it ITB if during tracking a seasoned engineer had a WALL of outboard where he tweaked to his heart's content (basically doing EVERYTHING that would have been done in the mixing stage on a console BEFORE any of the tracks ever even hit the A/D) and then sets all the faders at unity in PT and prints the mix with hardly any plugin processing at all ???

Engineers and music producers are some of the most notorious liars that have ever existed in the human family. And there is indeed "a sucker born every minute" if you believe anything they say at all !!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tha]-[acksaw View Post
Check out the most recent Black Keys album "Brothers". Mixed by Tchad Blake ITB. He even used some digital samples for some of the drums. Its got an amazing sound, as most of their stuff did. This was the first album where they really embraced digital.

Also Tom Petty's most recent album "Mojo". For being recorded and mixed ITB, it's has some amazing mojo for sure. They also cut the whole thing live in one room, in their rehearsal space they call "The Clubhouse". Not much acoustic treatment, if any. They had rugs on mic stands surrounding Tom while he cut live vocals. The album sound is amazing.

There are also a good deal of people mixing top chart hits ITB, out in Nashville. I could fire you a list of mixes, but that's what Google is for. Haha!

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Gearslutz.com App
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