Can one seperate Art and Human Nature?

[Rod Gervais]

I feel bad for you AJ, it must be sad to live a life that one feels is meaningless.

My life actually does have meaning........... even if only for the time that i am here............ well hell, I also have my children and grandkids........... so maybe for a few generations.

No thank you - i will not look at my life and believe that i should live it to it's full "meaninglessness".......... nor will i enjoy it for what it is in your terms (meaningless?)

I watch life spring into being every day........... i create - and even if no one else in the world views my creation - it has meaning for me - I love with passion - and am loved like that in return.........

I watch those around me as they create and i revel in their ingenuity - i laugh with joy when they succeed - and shed tears when they're in pain.....................

I watch my children as they stumble through life trying to find their way - and smile as i see the pieces of me and my wife that they bring with them on that journey............ i also cringe with each mistake i see them make along the way - but respect their right to make them for themsleves....... i love to watch how THEIR lives have meaning............

No sir Alpha............. there is true meaning in my life........ and this is why i live they way i do - doing the things i do - and this is why i celebrate it each and every single day of my life..............

And when i leave this life............ if nothing of me were ever to be remembered - that in no way would ever affect the meaning that my life had while i lived (for me) - and ultimately - in the end - for me - that is all that matters.

Wishing you truly the best in life..........

Rod

[alphajerk]

thats fine with me. but every word you mentioned is filled with ego. enjoy your one millionth of a billisecond here. i know i will, but im not going to fake life into believing that ART is somehow an important endeavour for some egocentric fulfillment.

"just killin time, before it kills me"

[Rod Gervais]

Alpha,

Then on this......... we agree to disagree............

Still wishing you the best,

Rod

[littledog]

I find it amusing that alphajerk so successfully has taken control of this thread. Just because he declares that the only person that isn't "modern" who has stood the test of time is jesus, now we are all going to argue about whether jesus has any true meaning.

i argue the premise. there have been tremendous artistic, social, and scientific contributions by greeks, egyptians, chinese, persians, africans, indians, etc. that far predate Jesus. Who ever said the argument was about whether a meaningful existence is predicated on everyone remembering your name? What is important is the contribution to posterity, not the permanence of the signature.

i'll happily concede that more evil has been done in the name of organized religion than good. and i'll maintain that has nothing to do with this discussion whatsoever.

[aardvark]

Originally posted by alphajerk

aardvark... im having a supremely tought time accepting the fact that you have ANY inclination as to what beethoven sounded like. ... all beethoven recordings are simply cover songs and INTERPRETATIONS.

All music all the time is an intererpretation. Committing an idea from brain to paper is the first act in allowing the communication
of that thought to fellow musicians so they might play or INTERPERATE the idea of the composer. Issues of modern orchestral tones and the number of players aside, something like
a piano sonata travels well across time...that is exactly why
we revere so much of his cannon. Even within the wide berth of
two centuries worth of various debates on "accurate" presentation his intent is still clear and visible above the mumbles
of musical mortals.


Oh yes...his great pieces are truly works of art. Even when he
wrote them for money...

Aardvark

[Brent Casey]

Originally posted by alphajerk


humans are the fleas and the earth is the dog. our meaning in the greater universe is worthless. the people you mention [and the one i mentioned] only have had effect on immediate humanity... whose lifespan is not even a millionbillionth of a millisecond. perhaps there are much grander lifeforms in the universe who look at newton and say "bravo! you figured out gravity and basic physics... and all it took was an apple hitting you in the head" [with heavy sarcasm]... newton is preschool compared to a greater mind. einstein beats him hands down and even he will be looked at as "basic" one day.

AlphaJerk,

Just out of curiousity,
are you implying that Newton's accomplishments are "basic" albeit from the viewpoint of "grander" lifeforms?
Also, why will Einstein be looked at as "basic" one day and how is it that "einstein beats him (Newton) hands down"?
Lastly: where are you getting the figure that the average human lifespan of important historical figures like Beethoven and Jesus are "not even a millionbillionth of a millisecond"?

Best,

Brent Casey
PMI Audio
877-563-6335

Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night. God said, "Let Newton be!" and all was light.
-Alexander Pope

"A little learning is a dangerous thing,"
-Alexander Pope

[Ruphus]

Lastly: where are you getting the figure that the average human lifespan of important historical figures like Beethoven and Jesus are "not even a millionbillionth of a millisecond"?

Seems related to the being. Universe being yet very young, the earth much younger and the human evoultion after alll like a couple of hours of the globes existence when related to it as a "year". The being and thinking of individuals, generations or epochs again would mean less than nothing within earths rotation of 8 million years (= human evolution ).

But I think entelechy wouldn´t be really suiting. Despite the fact that death material needs much less optimized conditions to bear life than it has been expected until lately, the chances for development of life like on earth might remain very seldom even under the circumstance that galaxies bear billions of suns and the space billions of galaxies.

If I am allowed to drift further about relations. Enthusiastic NASA folks might revel about men in spaceships finding new shores, but this very likely is naive BS. Such enterprices might indeed become reality at the latest when some of the rich try to escape the dying planet, but it will be hopeless. From unreal chances of lively planets, through technical long term insufficiencies over the ability of humans grown up with understandings like we know of to stay reasonable under demands for such a trip ... What we are causing not only goes far above of our own relevancy, but will mean end of higher lifes story in thinkable reach of space.

On a planet that could had become twice that old and beared much more sense than Einstein, Newton and back to that guy with the wheel alltogether could had revealed.

I believe there is a sense of life. Sense.
Art should be sense in my opinion. That´s at least where it comes from.

Greets,

Ruphus

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by Brent Casey
AlphaJerk,

Just out of curiousity,
are you implying that Newton's accomplishments are "basic" albeit from the viewpoint of "grander" lifeforms?
Also, why will Einstein be looked at as "basic" one day and how is it that "einstein beats him (Newton) hands down"?
Lastly: where are you getting the figure that the average human lifespan of important historical figures like Beethoven and Jesus are "not even a millionbillionth of a millisecond"?

1. newtons laws are taught in what? 3rd grade now?
2. einstien made much bigger and more cosmic contributions, but still very elementary in the grander sense of unlocking the universe.
3. 40 years? maybe? the universe is how many billions of years old?

[littledog]

1) most third graders I know aren't all that fluent in calculus. Your view of Newton seems derived from a third grade textbook, I will admit.

2) we still celebrate whoever invented the zero, even if we don't know their name. it's the concept that counts, not the name. Just because future advancements are built upon past advancements does not diminish the value of the past advancements. Einstein was wrong about a lot of stuff too - couldn't ever accept quantum mechanics because it offended his sense of aesthetics, for instance. If you look at the depth and breadth of Newton's total contributions vs. Einstein, one could hardly say he ws less significant.

3) i'm not sure what someone's lifespan has to do with their lasting contributions to the species. Based on lifespan, I'm already far more memorable than Mozart or Charlie Parker.

[alphajerk]

not contributions to a terrestrial species, but on the universal scale. i guess im just bored with the noise humans create and find myself looking towards the other stars.

[littledog]

cool. here's hoping you find a species more to your liking!

[alphajerk]

well, we rape the earth, piss in our water supplies, wreck havoc and destruction, poke holes in our atmosphere... id say there are better species on this earth than humans.

[littledog]

maybe, but it's just so damn hard to change chromosomes in midstream.

(excuse me for a moment... I gotta take a leak in alpha's water supply...)

[Ruphus]

Originally posted by littledog
maybe, but it's just so damn hard to change chromosomes in midstream.

It´s NOT THE CHROMOSOMES!!



Unorganized thinking could individually be changed within a couple of months and in wider terms needed only one generation in opposite to how it would be with what is supposed as "nature of humans".

Devotion to modern men´s evil fits the church but not science.

[aardvark]

Originally posted by Ruphus
It´s NOT THE CHROMOSOMES!!



Unorganized thinking could individually be changed within a couple of months and in wider terms needed only one generation...

I hope you are correct otherwise you Germans are due for another march into Poland!!!

Just pokin yer tueton ribs Rufus.



Aardvark

[Ruphus]

Actually we are heading for Canada.

Although I don´t know if I´m allowed to say "we". I´ve been born here and can´t live without what I appreciate as the good sites of German mentality, but my chromosomes are import ware. My home might be somewhere between 112th and 115th galaxy where earths documentaries are on the air as paradox tragicomedy series.

Greets,

Ruphus

[aardvark]

Originally posted by Ruphus
Actually we are heading for Canada. ...


Greets,

Ruphus

Well we do have the worlds largest population of Frenchmen
who haven't surrendered to the Germans...



Cheers,
Aardvark

[Ruphus]

Originally posted by aardvark
Well we do have the worlds largest population of Frenchmen
who haven't surrendered to the Germans...



Cheers,
Aardvark

But you are already invaded by Blaupunkt radios.

PS: The French for decades stated they hadn´t really surrendered. Vichy regime was all under the carpet until a few years ago when a new discussion requested the topic to be realized. Similar is now happening in other countries like Sweden and Holland where intellectuals are pointing out that it wasn´t all only resitance.

[Brent Casey]

Originally posted by alphajerk
1. newtons laws are taught in what? 3rd grade now?
2. einstien made much bigger and more cosmic contributions, but still very elementary in the grander sense of unlocking the universe.
3. 40 years? maybe? the universe is how many billions of years old?

Mathematics, music and art are also taught in the third grade. Alphajerk, if I told you that you were in Plato's cave, would you step outside for a breath of fresh air? (Yeah I should talk)
It was your pal Albert Einstein who once said and I quote, "Most of the fundamental ideas of science are essentially simple, and may, as a rule, be expressed in a language comprehensible to everyone". I think you may be applying this notion incorrectly and thereby minimizing the astounding achievments of Sir Isaac Newton into simple cause and effect as if any yahoo could ostensibly sit under an apple tree and define the physical world as the result of a rap on the cranium by a Fujiiama. That's what they tell you in Schoolhouse Rock, my friend, but there's a little more to it than that.
You're asking me how old the universe is? I think it's in its teens: 13-14 billion or so. I don't know, I have enough trouble remembering the birthdays of my immediate family.

Best,

Brent Casey
PMI Audio Group
877-563-6335