Dealing with vulgar and demeaning lyrics with bands you record.

[RARStudios]

Z
Zz

[SoundWeavers]

Originally Posted by etcd32

I just mixed a rappers CD. I do not want to be affiliated with it though because he has EXTREMELY demeaning lyrics towards woman.

I mixed half way through the CD and then some of the lyrics were just terribly sexist and extremely demeaning popped up in the second half of songs. I felt obligated to finish mixing his CD since I already did half of it and the deadline was soon, but man, was I put off by this genre.

Any ideas on how to prevent this?

Don't accept projects that are against your "moral/ethical standards". In my case, since I run a professional facility - I am ready to provide service whatever the lyrics of the artist. It's none of my business especially if I'm just engineering the project.

Now, if I'm producing the project - I am careful to choose the artists that I work with so I don't end up with extreme sexist/racist pigs.

[krusty]

Tipper Gore, is that you?

Seriously, though, do the finest job you can right to the end. If you are seeing so much work cross your threshold that you can pick and choose based on something like lyrics, then by all means, do so. Otherwise, you get paid to do something specific. You have not written the songs and will not be performing them for your grandmother's birthday. What would you do for the next act that comes through the door? Ask to preread their lyrics and turn them down as a client if they offend you?

[PlugHead]

If you can pick and choose the talent you record, do what's right for you.

If not, keep clear of ANY ethical/personal issues with their material: simply serve the artist/label/etc., or learn how to say no.

Being immune to any moral judgment is best: art will always push boundaries, and any dispositions against that is merely personal bias', so - stay neutral...

[bitman]

I'm doing a project now where the artist is applauding the burning down of rich peoples houses built in pristine wilderness. Actions that happened some years ago in Colorado. Apparently he is not the actor but who knows people.

He's a elf tree hugger or whatever but his checks are good and the songs are good so.....

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by etcd32

I just mixed a rappers CD. I do not want to be affiliated with it though because he has EXTREMELY demeaning lyrics towards woman.

I mixed half way through the CD and then some of the lyrics were just terribly sexist and extremely demeaning popped up in the second half of songs. I felt obligated to finish mixing his CD since I already did half of it and the deadline was soon, but man, was I put off by this genre.

Any ideas on how to prevent this?

I completely understand your feelings. There's just stuff so vile you don't want it in your head. I support artists' freedom of speech -- but that doesn't mean I have to put myself in a position to have my head filled up with disgusting crap.

Obviously, it's difficult to prescreen artists and their music to make sure it's something you want to deal with -- but prescreening artists is a pretty good idea if you're going to be working intimately with them and inviting them into your facility. I haven't heard that many horror stories -- but the ones I have heard have stuck in my head. The one that really got me was a studio jacking not all that far from my house, in a neighborhood that looked like mine, only nicer... 3 people got killed for an estimated $15K worth of gear. For which the killers probably got what? $1500? $2K? Or -- the chilling thing that was suggested at the time -- the bad guys wanted to start their own studio. This wasn't a jacking gone bad, by the way. The killers apparently planned out the killings, basing it on a movie that was popular at the time.

[DaVinci]

You've got to do what's right for you. I know for a fact I could make six figures in under 35 hours a week at a local company... I know because I've done it... and they want me back...

... but there's a reason I left.

I'd rather be broke (and I am now) than compromise my integrity. If you don't care, it's your right not to... but if you DO care, pay attention. If you are lucky enough to have clarity in your life regarding your moral compass, recognize it as a gift and honor it.

... in whatever way makes sense for you.

I've turned down many clients in multiple businesses, and I have no regrets in that department.

I have also had a few times I took on a client even though I knew better... and I have regretted each and every time that has happened.

[Danner]

Leni Riefenstahl made some decent money producing Triumph des Willens.

But who knew the whole **** thing would play out like it did.

[mattg082]

If you're not producing it or on it then I wouldn't worry. Just use an alias for the credit. Tons of people do that on things like that. Problem solved

[Snatchman]

Had a Nephew that recorded a Rap project ( else where) with extremely vulgar langauge from start to finish..He brought it by my studio to see what I thought and why the local Radio Station wouldn't play it..I listened to about 30 seconds into the first song,stopped it, handed it back to him, looked at him and said....Please.....

[paultools]

Originally Posted by Snatchman

Had a Nephew that recorded a Rap project ( else where) with extremely vulgar langauge from start to finish..He brought it by my studio to see what I thought and why the local Radio Station wouldn't play it..I listened to about 30 seconds into the first song,stopped it, handed it back to him, looked at him and said....Please.....

I did the same thing the first time someone handed me a DVD of the movie Scarface to watch...

[Larry Mal]

You gotta keep mixing this guy- get him out there! He sounds like a bold visionary, a valuable voice.

Man, I can't get hear enough songs about demeaning women- what they gotta do to get they money, what's a better use for they mouth than talking and shit, that sort of thing. I just eat it up!

To me, that's art. Picasso had his blue. Me, I got treating bitches like shit and leaving them with kids and then denying that they mine after taking they mama's money. It's all about perspective.

And I'm glad that there's still artists who have to courage to turn my vision into a beautiful song. Here's to you, hip hop community. Hear hear!

[robertshaw]

it's part of the job. You can politely turn bands away. It's all art though, so I wouldn't sweat it. People have the right to say whatever they want
but in a private biz like a studio you reserve the right to not allow them a forum to do so. Personally as long as money is involved I don't care what anyone sings as long as it's not illegal.

It's like death metal and Satan lyrics. When that stuff came out lots of studios were offended by that. I was in a band and we did all that stuff in 82-83. We were into venom and hellhammer etc.... We had to explain to one studio owner it was just music based on horror movies. Then he let us record.

I was like did you ever see the Exorcist? or a Stephen king movie? he was like I love Stephen king I had to explain to him that's all we were doing was Stephen king type story lines with music behind it. Of course were sucked as storytellers unlike Stephen King but he got the picture. Maybe these guys just watched x-rated movies for recreation? It doesn't mean it's right but it's who they are. Right or wrong

It's all art. But you don't have to like it, and you reserve the right to pass on it. That's your privilege

[sameal]

Originally Posted by Larry Mal

You gotta keep mixing this guy- get him out there! He sounds like a bold visionary, a valuable voice.

Man, I can't get hear enough songs about demeaning women- what they gotta do to get they money, what's a better use for they mouth than talking and shit, that sort of thing. I just eat it up!

To me, that's art. Picasso had his blue. Me, I got treating bitches like shit and leaving them with kids and then denying that they mine after taking they mama's money. It's all about perspective.

And I'm glad that there's still artists who have to courage to turn my vision into a beautiful song. Here's to you, hip hop community. Hear hear!

hip hip! *****ay!

[thetalkinghead]

are you mixing or producing it? if youre mixing it, tough it out. if youre producing it... run!

[Daniel Antix]

I think you gotta tough it out man... I always listen to a band/artist before I work with them, whether it be a gig or a rehearsal or just sit down with them with a guitar... do this before you commit to working with them.

On a side note I mixed a band earlier in the year called Ugly Bitch check them out only if your not put off by bad language... if you like that type of thing listen to "The Angel with the Burnt Wings" and "Living Together" ... all there on their myspace.

[character]

I got myself into a situation like that once. It was with a death metal band (which was not a problem to me at the time). When they showed up to record, they had their lyrics written down. At that point I realized how the lyrics were almost entirely devoted to racism and sexism. This wasn't just general non-discriminatory mass murder and torture (which in the context of death metal would have been understandable). But this was really offensive to specific groups, and I didn't know how to get out of working on the project once I had started it.

After tracking a 3 song demo, I was left to mix it. In the meantime, the band had scheduled a show at a local park. They made up flyers with various racist graphics. They decided to put up flyers at local businesses, and the first owner they talked to turned them down. The band used my reputation as a defense. You know - "so-and-so is helping us out, he doesn't see anything wrong with it". The owner knew me, and told me what they had said. I told him the situation I was in, and he said he'd take care of it. He called the parks and rec board, and told them what was on the flyer. Since it was a public park, the board shut down the show before it ever happened. The band thought that they were looking at serious trouble. They broke up, and that was the end of that.

I wouldn't normally recommend having your clients turned into the authorities, or doing things that cause bands to break up. But in this particular case, things fell into place rather well. It was a win-win for everyone. Those kids were in high school, and probably not mature enough to understand the damage that could have been done to their reputations had they actually performed or released that type of message. This all happened in a small town where everyone knows each other and they have a long memory. Those kids have all gone on to do pretty well for themselves, and none of us had to regret putting out that CD.

[Lance Lawson]

[QUOTE=etcd32;5749176]I just mixed a rappers CD. I do not want to be affiliated with it though because he has EXTREMELY demeaning lyrics towards woman.

I mixed half way through the CD and then some of the lyrics were just terribly sexist and extremely demeaning popped up in the second half of songs. I felt obligated to finish mixing his CD since I already did half of it and the deadline was soon, but man, was I put off by this genre.

Any ideas on how to prevent this?[


There's nothing you can do about it except not to deal with the genre or the people who are into the genre.

[mjrippe]

Yeah, I once worked as a staff engineer. I had to record some local Baltimore hip-hop/rap artists who had some pretty anti-white lyrics (I am caucasian). Let's just say I did the best work I could and sent them on their way. Shortly after that I left the studio and went freelance. The 2nd engineer who took over after I left told me a story about the power going out in the control room and the "gangstas" he was recording had their guns out when it came back on! Now I just fix broken gear and stay out of session work...

[Thumper]

If you're a professional, you deal with.

Do your damn job, and nothing more.

I'm in a bad mood so whatever, but damn... If you're only the mix guy you should have a lot more things to pay attention to than the lyrics.

[rockitrecordings]

Had quite of few of those instances over the years. I remember the very first band that I recorded was some psychobilly punk band and I couldn't understand a word they were saying live but I offered to record a 3 song demo for them since I was in school and had the studio to myself. I remember how I cringed when we got to the lyrics of one song and in the backgrounds they were shouting six six six.... I was like uh..... being a believer in Christ as I am, it was awkward to say the least. But, I did tell them I'd record them. So, I finished it and the mixes made them happy and after that situation I made sure I got the lyrics first so I could better "produce" the artists I was working with This is a luxury that you don't have when working for a studio.

For the last few years I've been working for a studio and engineering quite a bit of hip hop lately and sometimes getting some of what you're dealing with. But this is quite different in that the studio I work for doesn't give a crap about what I hold morally wrong, if I refuse the work, then I get canned... or if I don't get canned at least I don't get offered anymore engineering gigs and have to start running again... and I'm NOT doing that

We have a saying in my home.

"Learn to deal... or we'll have to sit you down and have Mandy Moore teach you..."

and that scares me

[Fu Schnickens]

Originally Posted by mattg082

If you're not producing it or on it then I wouldn't worry. Just use an alias for the credit. Tons of people do that on things like that. Problem solved

Fck that. What if it becomes a massive hit and nobody knows you engineered it because it's not your name in the credits? How does that benefit you? It's contrary to "not worrying about it". If you do it, claim it. But I think stuff like the OP described is just inviting the bad juju into your life. Who needs that? If you don't like the dude, don't invite him into the studio, or work on his sht unless you can get around it.

[rocksure]

In my experience if you are asking yourself whether you should be doing something or not, and having to try to find reason's to justify why you "should do it", but still feel uncomfortable with it.....then don't do it. I would rather listen to my conscience and lose money.
Personally I wouldn't work on material that is strongly racist, sexist, satanist, or blatantly anti-christian ( as I am a believer). I don't want to be a part of helping to promote stuff that I absolutely disagree with.
Money ain't everything.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by etcd32

Any ideas on how to prevent this?

Don't do rap. Seriously.

I don't. I only work with musicians who can actually sing and play, and don't have abusive attitudes towards everybody around them. Sure, I don't work as much as if I indiscriminately took everything - but I'm a hell of a lot happier and I don't hate what I do.

[JoaT]

There is a difference between doing things you don't like and doing things that go against your moral values.

If people could distinguish the two and make a judgment call when needed, the world would be a much better place.

I am pretty sure most of the people that made holocaust a reality were just doing their jobs. In a situation where they had given the (almost mandatory) option of not to take a personal moral stand.

Saying no can often have it's consequences. But as in holocaust, not saying no will have it's consequences too.

Art should be allowed a freedom of expression. But if you find it offensive, you should have equal freedom to choose not to participate / tolerate.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by CallMeAl

You've got to do what's right for you. I know for a fact I could make six figures in under 35 hours a week at a local company... I know because I've done it... and they want me back...

... but there's a reason I left.

I'd rather be broke (and I am now) than compromise my integrity. If you don't care, it's your right not to... but if you DO care, pay attention. If you are lucky enough to have clarity in your life regarding your moral compass, recognize it as a gift and honor it.

... in whatever way makes sense for you.

I've turned down many clients in multiple businesses, and I have no regrets in that department.

I have also had a few times I took on a client even though I knew better... and I have regretted each and every time that has happened.

+ 1!!!!! I pick and choose the artists I work with, it also of course helps to actually believe in the material you are working with. It is a win-win, and I am lucky that my situation allows me to do so.

[Soul Finger]

What's wrong with being sexy?

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by etcd32

Any ideas on how to prevent this?

Is this thread for real? Did you really ask this question?!?

tutt

Let me give you a clear and simple example:

A mouse is put in a cage, he can go get the cheese but gets a light electrocution whenever he eats the cheese.

What I'm saying is, is the cheese worth the pain?

To me It is.

Basically you're telling us that you don't want to get the cheese if it involves some kind of pain (in your case, mental and moral pain). In life, no pain, no game. I think you should get a retail job, see if that mixing job was so bad to do after all. Nevermind demeaning lyrics, you'll get demeaning people all day long. Whenever I have a bad day, I go make a quick trip to Wal-Mart, and I look at the people working in there; it puts me back in place.

By the way, if you didn't want the job, you could have sent it to me to mix it. In fact you can send me all your morally wrong sessions from now on.

Lol what a joke of a thread.

[markham]

Originally Posted by Thumper

If you're a professional, you deal with.

Do your damn job, and nothing more.

I'm in a bad mood so whatever, but damn... If you're only the mix guy you should have a lot more things to pay attention to than the lyrics.

I have a hard time with this one, Thumper.

I very much believe it is possible to be a professional and to still reject certain kinds of material. Even if you've already begun the project.

Several years ago (as a young newcomer) I was working as an engineer/producer with a "Christian" group who in one of their songs singled out a particular celebrity and called them to essentially "quit sinning and come back to the fold." I pointed this out to the studio owner who was a real studio veteran, asking him how I should handle it. He said, "I'll handle it for you! They can't record that song here! End of story!"

I respected his position on that, and I thought it took some guts to do it. The rest of the album was still recorded and mixed at the studio, but not that song.

Anyways, I think this really is a situation where the conscience must be our guide. I know I wouldn't personally want to work on music that is degrading, but that's my call. I understand we can have differences of opinion on something like this, but I don't think it makes one "unprofessional" just for having some personal boundaries.

[Kiwi]

Why is it that fools baying for "freedom of speech" are invariably baying for the freedom to be a complete arsehole? I think many artists are so devoid of talent that they feel they have to push the boundries of decency and civility just to get a reaction.

Producing music should be about producing a work of art, and it is a partnership. I see no reason to go into partnership with losers who have nothing decent to contribute to society.

I guess there are those who are so desperate for cash that they need to accept any job they can get. That's not really art though ... that's a hard luck story.