Dealing with vulgar and demeaning lyrics with bands you record.

[DaveE]

Originally Posted by Revmen

Why is it that you can make a film or write a book about anything and people seem to get that it's not real? It's just fiction.

But with music everybody seem to belive that every song lyric is based on a true story. Or that if someone would hear a song about rapeing then they would become a rapeist.

Excellent point!

This is a good thread! There are lots of good arguments on both sides. I seem to remember etcd32 mentioning in another thread that he's not making a whole lot on this gig. For that reason alone, I think you are getting much too wound up. Decide quickly if you are going to do it or not and move on so you can ditch the anxiety.

First thing, do you have another project that you can immediately begin working on? If not, this project may be a good experience for you to learn. Now of course I know nothing about this artist, but think about this: If Eminem was in your studio rapping about killing Kim and his mother, would you send him on his way? All I'm saying that if the raw talent is there, it could be good for you.

Another thing to consider-- I think of my clients and how much they've grown over the years... It's very possible that you might do a bang-up job on these mixes and this guy comes back again in 2 years with completely different material. He might be all about hating women right now, but things can change a lot in a year as people grow.

Anyways good luck!

[WVUtubadude]

If I was asked to do a job I didn't feel morally/ethically good about doing, I wouldn't do it. No amount of money will change that.

I would also have no problem pulling the plug on something that went against my morals. Luckily, the high school concert and jazz band crowd and college recital crowd aren't big on vulgar.

[glenn Taylor]

I moved my shop and did not leave my new contact info with the clients that raised my blood pressure or burnt my ears.
Aaaaahh......... Income is a bit slow, but my peace of mind is worth it.
GT.

[FrozenFire]

In response to the original question, I run a very modest home-based studio and most of my clients are young artists/bands, and bar bands wanting to make a demo. The bar bands have never been a problem, but the young (usually rap) artists sometimes feel they have to be "edgy" or have to "keep it real." Most are like toddlers learning to speak who say a bad word and then repeat it because of the reaction of the adults around them.

To avoid problems, in my standard contract I have listed:

The Client shall NOT record or perform any material on Studio premises that:

o Advocates violence or other criminal acts
o Advocates the overthrow of the state or the US federal government
o Advocates racism
o Advocates misogynistic or anti-child views
o Advocates pedophilia
o Uses gratuitous profanity
o Promotes an anti-US agenda
o Supports terrorist views

(The Studio shall be the final arbiter whether material falls under the above categories.)

These are my principles, my standards, and the client knows before recording what they can and can't sign about. Some profanities here and there aren't a big deal, but I don't want my name (or a fake name) attached to any of the above. I had one guy with lyrics about cutting the throats of women and raping their dying bodies, and that was one of his more gentler songs. I don't make my living from the studio (if it pays for maintenance and the occasional gear sluttiness, I'm happy), so I don't mind if I lose potential clients.

On the other hand, I also teach a basic recording arts class at a local college and have shut down student's sessions when their performers (usually a non-student friend) launch into racist or anti-Semitic rants. I don't know whether to be amused or disgusted by the sight/sound of Native American and White kids throwing "n" word bombs liberally, probably having never met an African-American person in their lives. In any case, since they are in violation of school policy, I don't have any judgments to make, the school already forbids that sort of stuff.

(I managed to turn it into a history lesson once, however, when a kid rapped about "I don't like Hitler, but I hate the Jews, too." I had my student running the session stop it --he said he didn't know the rapper was going to rap about that kind of stuff-- and had the performer come to the control room. I asked him how many Jewish persons he knew--none--and if he knew what Hitler had done, not just to the Jews. He didn't, so I took a few moments to show him videos of **** treatment of the Jews, and of the concentration and death camps. The look of horror in this kid's eyes at little old Jewish men and women being shot/hung and the sight of the emaciated death camp inmates upon their liberation...I think I might have made him why what he was saying was so obscene. I hope anyway...)

[Chris Lago]

It's so funny how I can write 1 reply, log back on gearslutz the next day and have a bunch of replies dissing me, it makes me chuckle. Let's not be stupid here, I would never work on music that talks about muslim attacking the US, that is absurd and extreme, but if it's only a rapper saying profane stuff, it shouldn't be a big deal, how many out there use profanity anyway?

What beats me the most is that the OP actually heard the songs first, then decided to mix and then realized that it was profane and undermining specific things... Didn't you listen to the songs first?!? That should be your answer as to how to avoid these things... Make sure you hear the songs first? lol.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by binarymilton

OK, so, Chris, you'd be fine mixing a song written by a paedophile white supremacist **** about how much he enjoys female circumcision?

No, and why would I turn it down? Because I would hear the song first and realize that it was talking about gross and deranged things. Listening before working on something, helps sometimes lol.

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

It's so funny how I can write 1 reply, log back on gearslutz the next day and have a bunch of replies dissing me, it makes me chuckle. Let's not be stupid here, I would never work on music that talks about muslim attacking the US, that is absurd and extreme, but if it's only a rapper saying profane stuff, it shouldn't be a big deal, how many out there use profanity anyway?

What beats me the most is that the OP actually heard the songs first, then decided to mix and then realized that it was profane and undermining specific things... Didn't you listen to the songs first?!? That should be your answer as to how to avoid these things... Make sure you hear the songs first? lol.

Hey Chris,
The only problem here's that your idea of profane is not necessarily the OP's. The OP was asking what you would do to avoid working something you found profane, not to question what he thought was profane. You said in an earlier post you do indeed have some standards regarding the lyrical content of your clients, if I thought Muslim extremism was cool I could say that you were a joke. Not everybody is going to have the same standard. Not trying to be a jerk, you're a talented guy but its a difference of opinion and he's not a joke for having his as you aren't for having yours. For me, I don't mind profanity, I prefer not to use it but I wouldn't put my name on anything that's demeaning, racist, Satanic or violent. Those are things I disagree with and no amount of money could sway me into working with it. As far as advice I like to check out bands, I get lyrics far in advance, check their myspace, talk to the guys.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

It's so funny how I can write 1 reply, log back on gearslutz the next day and have a bunch of replies dissing me, it makes me chuckle. Let's not be stupid here, I would never work on music that talks about muslim attacking the US, that is absurd and extreme, but if it's only a rapper saying profane stuff, it shouldn't be a big deal, how many out there use profanity anyway?

What beats me the most is that the OP actually heard the songs first, then decided to mix and then realized that it was profane and undermining specific things... Didn't you listen to the songs first?!? That should be your answer as to how to avoid these things... Make sure you hear the songs first? lol.

I think the reason you get attacked so viciously on here is because you come across as an arrogant know-it-all, with the answers to everything, all from a guy with their yearbook photo as a profile pic and who we all know works out of a bedroom studio.

There is nothing inherently wrong with any of that...except for like all of us you don't know it all, and therefore if you want to retain what credibility you have left, you probably shouldn't act like you should. From what I've heard, you do a reasonable job with what you've got, but you're neither Ryan Tedder nor Bob Clearmountain yet, and both those guys manage to stay humble with only nice things said about them.

If you bothered to read the OP, he said the stuff he listened to was fine - only on later tracks did the issue arise. I don't know about you, but I think that's generally a fine way of vetting something you're being hired to mix. Only rarely would you get caught out here. If you're so diligent you listen to every minute of every potential track (bearing in mind sometimes mix jobs are offered for work that hasn't been recorded yet) before agreeing to a job, I think you're in a minority of one.

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

No, and why would I turn it down? Because I would hear the song first and realize that it was talking about gross and deranged things. Listening before working on something, helps sometimes lol.

Read the above.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I master a lot for a hip hop artist. He is GREAT. He also uses some really profane and vulgar language. If I am mastering it and I hear something really bad I look at him and he smiles and says "hey it is what sells records"

I did a punk band one time where the lead singer spent about 30 minutes of a 43 minute song talking about putting things into and taking things out of his butt. When I got through with the session and they paid me and left I went in a took a very long shower. It was the only album I did with them.

I had a heavy metal band that sells most of their material in Europe. Their songs are very well crafted but their lyrics are mostly anarchist in nature. They talk a lot about "stupid Americans" and basically condemn the whole American way of life. They also sing about the communist and fascists governments of the world and praise Hitler and Stalin. It was not fun to listen to but I had two choices. Either do the work and get paid or stand on higher moral ground and tell them to find work elsewhere. I chose to end my involvement with them. They were good fast paying clients but the songs were so racist and hateful I really could not stand to work on them anymore.

If you are going to do certain genres of music it comes with the territory. You are either a professional and deal with it or you have to pre screen everything you do and pick and choose what it is that you want to do. If your studio is so profitable that you can pick and choose your clientele and pass judgment on their material then it should be no problem. Most studios do not have that luxury.

Best of luck!

[Gdupproductions]

Bump

[Gdupproductions]

Originally Posted by etcd32

I just mixed a rappers CD. I do not want to be affiliated with it though because he has EXTREMELY demeaning lyrics towards woman.

I mixed half way through the CD and then some of the lyrics were just terribly sexist and extremely demeaning popped up in the second half of songs. I felt obligated to finish mixing his CD since I already did half of it and the deadline was soon, but man, was I put off by this genre.

Any ideas on how to prevent this?

Quiet Frankly i think this rapper might be right...I dont know what he wrote in he,s lyrics, but now a days Girls (women) are just Money chasing H**,s (Only care bout your money,car,and your property,s)...Also allot of people from a previous generation agree,s with me so i dont know why the rapper is being blamed for the truth ? i Mean if he,s realy making statements wich doesnt make any sense like (your sitting therre and think dude WTF! are you talking about) then that,s another story...

Rap in general is a very miss-understood genre....might be women unfriendly-very cursey,rough,rude,about gangs,drugz but that SHOWS probaly how black people their life wherre in the 80,s and 90,s due racism and being seen as a lower class.....Make,s sense ? maybe....maybe not.

Same goes for rock music you call screaming and raping a drum kit and shagging a guitar string to hell.....Music?!. No for me not for other,s it does that,s a personaly taste.

[RARStudios]

Deleted

[Teddy Ray]

Work a job out of the music business that allows you to record who you want.

I don't need recording for money, and record just those that interest me. I will not be a part of the dumbing down of American music.

now..some folks are profane at times, to make a point..but the gratuitous stuff..i cant get behind it. Same thing with music... Ive been part of a lot of really bad music just to make a paycheck(as a backup singer). not fun.

if you gotta make money with the recording thing, you have to compromise at times, it seems.

[Id Ridden]

Originally Posted by etcd32

I also don't think I am being a complete Ned here...Just trying to come off as professional as I can due to the fact that I do run a business and am a 20 year old...which has quite a few pitfalls when it comes to people taking you seriously.

It's the music biz man...So long as when you are dealing with people you are professional that is the important thing. Look at some of the crap that goes on, yet behind the smoke you can be sure the vast majority of people involved are professional.

While one person may find demeaning women unprofessional, another may get just as turned off from something religious, or too commercial, or poppy or whatever. A mix engineer is not credited as anything other then that, what they think or feel has nothing to do with their professionalism at all, churn out good work, deal with people properly and you will be fine.

You are working things out still, finding your way and what works best for you, anyone who claims that to be Nedish has some serious issues.

If he is a good guy that is the most important thing...we tend to like some pretty weird and crazy music sometimes that in all rights could very well be censored, but, art is something that needs to have loose barriers and no restrictions or censorship, it needs freedom of speech, regardless of anything else. Deal with good people and that is the most important as that will reflect more then anything else. Deal with nothing but scum and douches and they will reflect negatively upon you...

Lastly, its the musiz biz...we're all completely nutters, we have to be...Take care in what you do, strive for the best it can be, be reliable, and churn out good work, and you will be taken seriously...

[pan60]

Don't accept projects that go against your "moral/ethical standards".

ditto!

[Surbitone]

Originally Posted by rocksure

Actually that's not far from the truth of what did happen in my family. My "Jewish" grandfather who lived in Bohemia Czechoslovakia was wise enough to get out just before Hitler went in. He moved my "Catholic" Grandmother, my dad and his two brothers to NZ weeks before it happened. All his family pretty much died in the concentration camps, while my grandmother's 2 brother's were conscripted into the German army when they invaded and they died there as well.
So yeah, comments from people who don't care what crap people spew out in their music don't go down too well with me. No way I would then record Neo **** Punk for example.

Similar story to my family too. I would never do record, mix or master scum like that - we had some Zimbabwean rapper prick in the studio before, and so distastefully proclaimed he was the 'black Hitler'. I went f*cking ape-sh*t at him.