The Politics of a Project Studio

[T_R_S]

I lost a client to a small project studio. Great client a little wacky, always paid the bill on time. Never gripped about how long it would take to do something always very flexable.
He was never very picky about quality or anything he just wanted it good for him.
Small project studio takes him and gives him a flat rate of 100 bucks a song. Needlesss to say he'll be getting a MBox and a 58 in a noisy room where you can hear the traffic ( I heard the tracks).
How does one take it? I have had so many bands come into me that have worked in small project studios only to have a *hit recording.
A full blown 7 Card HD studio with great mics, pre's and outboard and an expert engineer is not going to be able to record it for 10 bucks an hour.
The engineer from the other studio says it's good enough no one will be able to tell the difference anyway. I can't figure out for the life of me how people can BS clients into wasting thier time and money.

[GYMusic]

Sounds like the story of the guy who's still hung up on the x wife. She found someone who makes more money and has a bigger... well, you get the point. Get over it and move on.

[Finalmix56]

i've lost a few clients to cheaper studios, but i would say that within a year they're back at my door 90% of the time. The way I see it, if the first thing that a client worries about is the bill, they can go elsewhere. I want clients that care about their music FIRST, after all, we can usually work within any budget.
And if you're clients don't think you're worth the price you charge let them go else where. I found that every time we raised our rates we only attracted a better crop of customers. Keep your head up!

[genericperson]

some sales advice:

accusation: "you're too expensive"
response: "expensive compared to *what*?"


also, hidden expenses of the bargain basement studio:
lower quality tracking sound, means time wasted in mixing trying to fix it
poorer quality monitors=higher likihood of a mixing mistake
less sophisticated mixing setup means time wasted mixing
less sophisticated headphone/iso booth setups means more stress during tracking
unwanted outside noise means wasted takes, stress, and wasted time
inferior product means personal dissapointment, and less chance for success
bare-bones studio usually means a less-experienced engineer/mixer= less liklihood of good decision making


tell him he should go to the cheap studio to practice his arrangements. then bring only the good ones to your place to re-do at a higher quality level.

The Yankees have spring training in Tampa, but play in New York

good luck

[MicLust42]

It's the clients who convince themselves that THEY don't hear the difference. But many of them will eventually get it.

When it happens to me I try to just be pleasant about it. They'll be back.

The really absurd thing is that I *am* a cheap-ass project studio, and even *I* get undercut. The second time this happened I raised my rates! I want there to be a price difference between me and a guy with an Mbox and a 58 w/ no experience.

[jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by MicLust42

The really absurd thing is that I *am* a cheap-ass project studio, and even *I* get undercut. The second time this happened I raised my rates! I want there to be a price difference between me and a guy with an Mbox and a 58 w/ no experience.

And that guy has to worry about the guy with a 57 and a wax cylander.

[dasbin]

It gets worse the more studios there are.
In my town, the guys charging $100/song are the ones running 2" tape or Radar in fantastic (if slightly smallish) facilities. I'm dead serious. I have no idea how such places keep themselves afloat.

[T_R_S]

But that's the whole thing all they are doing is hurting themselves. If you charge 100 bucks but the client is willing to pay 1000 bucks - you screwing with nobody but yourself.
In the minds of a lot of people ...if it's cheap it can't be very good.
If you walk into a music store and you see a 70's Gibson Les Paul and then you notice the $100.00 price tag, one of the first questions you will ask is "What's wrong with it?"

[bloodstone]

To me what's more worrisome is how many clients we lose to the self-recordist more than the project studio.

[Bravin Neff]

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

And that guy has to worry about the guy with a 57 and a wax cylander.

Coffee through my nose sucks.

[Rodney Gene]

Charge what you are worth...or charge what you are willing to work for...

Nobody is 'losing' business...the business just chose something besides you and thank goodness they have a choice.

The 'demo' studios in my past were over priced...I used to pay $25-$50 an hour for recording back in the 80's and 90's...for a demo.
With the availablity and price of basic recording equipment...prices should be cheaper now and more folks can even record themselves..
An artist should be able to nail down a demo in a day for $250...

Rates don't surprise me...but I am surpised anybody expects to maintain a 'living' with a small studio unless you have something really special and you have the clients already.

Gee...what do you have to offer? Quality mics? Quality Pres? Pro tools? (or some form of DAW)....who doesn't?

Before the 'big home recording explosion'...there were a few great engineers and a few mediocre ones...Now there are a few great engineers and a whole bunch of mediocre ones.

The 'self recordists' I know are doing better audio production than the majority of project studios...and that is a bonafide reality.

If you need to make a good living...get a good paying job cause it ain't gonna happen with pro audio or 'owning' a studio.

[Finalmix56]

Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

Rates don't surprise me...but I am surpised anybody expects to maintain a 'living' with a small studio unless you have something really special and you have the clients already.

I agree wholeheartedly, I find it funny that some of my clients think i'm rolling in the cash. We charge $50/hr and are usually booked 30-50 hours a week between myself and our other engineer, and barely make enough to pay my bills. The only reason we're still in business is because we've been doing it so long, and we have a large clientle. I've seen so many studios open up, only to close within a year, it's a tough business, but it sure as hell beats working for a living!

Cheers!

[heyman]

Im with rodney.. if you are good enough - the cream always rises...

Lets not put down project studios. Some of us do this sort of thing on the side with jobs during the day ... You dont need 5 guys working for you when you have a smaller setup. Also, project studio is a term that should be used loosely.. Some have great equipment, some dont, the end product is what really matters...

If that client went to another studio that was the same price as you and it sucked would we still be having this conversation?

Again, your personal touch and care with the music will pay off down the road...
Dont let it get you down..

[Durv]

i'm guilty of being a "project" studio...simply because i dont have too much HIGH END stuff. Some nice mics. Some nice UA amps. Some decent mixes. nothing that shines, and i know it.
But let me explain how i ended up here....i was in a band, went to THE "big mans" studio here, paid $1000 for a 3 song demo....that...let me make this very clear, SOUNDED LIKE A COMPLETE PIECE OF SHIT!
We got the 2nd engineer, who blows A$$!. Hes actually still working at a local studio and the output is weak!

So there you go, my current output beats the shit out of that demo...
and i ALWAYS tell my clients to go to a reputable, well known studio for their albums. They all appreciate my honesty. They record with me to listen to their newer songs. their side projects and mostly for demos. Not ALBUMS or releases.
i know my place.
Next year i am purchasing an HD system and finally getting to work with some high end stuff...no way a Nuendo/Samplitude , with a couple 57's rig is gonna compete with NEVE/SSL/PROTools/ICON/API/UA/CHANDLER/NEUMANN/B.L.U.E.....

My time at the bottom has taught me a LOT.
and i cant tell you how much i have learned from just "sucking" until i get it right.
You guys out there with the amazing mixes inspire most of us...
thats my 2 cents.

Durv

[Kestral]

One way that I've used that has been highly effective in getting clients and also beating out little cheap ass studios is this. This happened this summer...

A really good rapper with an MPC3000 and some decent beats came to see me. Wanted to record PHAT tracks. I played him some stuff I did, it was my first foray into Hip Hop so I played him some dance tracks I did. PHAT.

So he calls me a few days later and we meet to talk and he says a friend of a friend has a MOTU and a PC and etc (all crappy equipment) can do it for this (which amounted to about 1/5th of my price per track).

No problem, one thing I like to do is collect interviews and articles of great producers, I love reading about them.

I pulled out a Dre article where he talked about Neve 1073 (I have a Neve 1073). It also mentioned the Urei 1176 (I have a Urei 1176). Also had a Missy Elliott article that said the same thing.

I pulled out some articles with big rap guys using Neumann mics. I have a Neumann mic in the studio.

I didn't even have to pull out articles talking about Pro Tools HD, because even rap guys that don't know a thing about recording know Pro Tools HD.

That and I borrowed an Emu SP12000 and a couple of analog synths from a friend sealed the deal.

I appealed to the same sense of his nature that made him like Sean John clothing, and the same part of him that raps about Kristal and Prada - he wanted the best and he wanted it done right and I basically positioned myself as "Kristal" and my competition as the "Coors Light".

In short, got my gig, got my price (no price breaks) and a happy client. The End.

[rvwainscott]

You get what you pay for is really the simple answer. I try to do as much follow up with my clients as I can and when one decides to go with a cheaper place I follow up on that too. It really falls into two categories: One group will go with a cheaper place and will quickly realize the mistake and come back to me. The other group is happy to find some place cheaper and the price break is more important to them than the quality of the project. No amount of talk will ever bring that group back.

I try, oh god I try, to screen these people out as soon as possible. When a call begins with "how much", I usually tell them that I am not the cheapest person. Also, if price is the only qualifier then I tell them that I have the number of the cheapest guy in town (he charges 12.50/hr) and I give them his number and wish them luck.

Robert v. wainscott
Full clip audio

[David Herbert]

Last two posts- great stuff!

David