19th April 2010
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#1 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2009 Location: Flint MI
Posts: 517
Thread Starter |  So, my bass player is upset that our scratch tracks can't hang with major label cds!?
So, my project studio started just as a way to record band practice, and has been progressing from there...
We record every practice, and then the guys all have me email them copies of what we got down. I export them as 128kbps WMA files, so I can send a bunch of songs in one email.
There is ZERO mixing done, no levels have been changed, no EQ, no edits of any kind, not even any plugins on anything!
So anyway, after about a year of this, the bass player (which also happens to be my older brother) informs me that our tracks sound like sh!t compared to commercial CD releases. 
I do believe that this was the closest I have ever been to a real-life "face palm"!
The singer/keyboard player and the drummer comment all the time about how great the tracks sound for live recordings, and I personally think that they sound damn good for what are essentially "scratch tracks"!
So, I tried to explain all of the differences between what we're doing, and music that has been properly tracked, mixed, and mastered; but I still don't really know how to feel about his statement.
This happened yesterday afternoon, and every time I think about what he said, I can't help but say "WTF?!?"  | 
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19th April 2010
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#2 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Mirfield, U.K.
Posts: 984
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They don't call the bass guitar the 'tool of ignorance' for nothing.....  | |
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19th April 2010
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#3 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2007 Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,219
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So, what's his point? Or rather, what's your point? What are they supposed to sound like?
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19th April 2010
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#4 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2009 Location: Flint MI
Posts: 517
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka  So, what's his point? Or rather, what's your point? What are they supposed to sound like? |
To me, it sounds like what you would have heard, if you were in the room when we played the song... which is exactly what I was going for.
As for my point, I don't really have one; I was just moaning... in the MOAN ZONE.
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19th April 2010
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#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2007 Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,219
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I'm not saying it's an inappropriate post. I'm just saying I didn't understand what you thought he should say. If it's a rehearsal tape, well, you know, it just may not sound like a finished record.
It took me a little off guard, you know. I mean, if you had said the drummer had complained, then I would have thought oh, well, of course. One wouldn't expect a drummer to know the difference between a rehearsal and a recording session. But then you said bass player, and well, that changes things just a little.
And if it were me, I'd take it as a compliment. At least he's listening to them.
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19th April 2010
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#6 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jan 2008 Location: Southern Cali
Posts: 895
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Dont join a band with your brother!!!!!!!!!!
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19th April 2010
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#7 | | Gear Guru
Joined: May 2008 Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 12,261
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The adult thing to do is look at him and say, yeh, well your bass playing sucks, too.
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Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO Charmed Quark Systems, Ltd www.charmedquark.com
Be a control freak!
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19th April 2010
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#8 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco
Posts: 4,782
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Given that you explained the difference between a "real" recording and a rehearsal tape, I think it's high time you called your bass player a ****ing moron.
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19th April 2010
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#9 | | urumita
Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Spoleto, Italy
Posts: 2,383
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Is he talking about the recording or the playing.? What kind of music is it? Ther's a lot of music that's not really played (played by Beat Detective) with triggered sounds and sequencing.
Most often a poor recording with a good performance can be made to sound PFG.
A lot of very good sounding music has been played live no click scratch vox in the same room with not much separation. it's just how you set it up and the individual sounds you make, the performance.
Maybe it's good that he told you and you can work on making your recordings better, find all the problems and make them better. It could be as simple as putting the bass amp behind the drummer, the gtr and key amps on either side and putting the vocal monitors above those, everybody stand in front of the drummer facing him and mix it acoustically so that it's balanced there, put a pair of omnis over the kit and direct mic everything (even the rest of the kit) and use what you need in the mix
I've recorded a lot of live to 2 track and they sound like (are) records
One of my early Mentors recorded Steve Forbett and said that he wouldn't accept anything but a 1 take performance, no edits, no overdubs, they recorded at the Power Station though
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love and light
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20th April 2010
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#10 | | Moderator
Joined: May 2007 Location: UK
Posts: 11,571
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HEY..
bass player for S.Filpansick....
don't be a butt munch.....
that do?  | |
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20th April 2010
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#11 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2009 Location: Flint MI
Posts: 517
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by 7rojo7 Is he talking about the recording or the playing.? What kind of music is it? Ther's a lot of music that's not really played (played by Beat Detective) with triggered sounds and sequencing.
Most often a poor recording with a good performance can be made to sound PFG.
A lot of very good sounding music has been played live no click scratch vox in the same room with not much separation. it's just how you set it up and the individual sounds you make, the performance.
Maybe it's good that he told you and you can work on making your recordings better, find all the problems and make them better. It could be as simple as putting the bass amp behind the drummer, the gtr and key amps on either side and putting the vocal monitors above those, everybody stand in front of the drummer facing him and mix it acoustically so that it's balanced there, put a pair of omnis over the kit and direct mic everything (even the rest of the kit) and use what you need in the mix
I've recorded a lot of live to 2 track and they sound like (are) records
One of my early Mentors recorded Steve Forbett and said that he wouldn't accept anything but a 1 take performance, no edits, no overdubs, they recorded at the Power Station though | I can certainly appreciate that... but you still did some work in post, right? EQing, balancing levels, stereo panning, etc?
And then I assume some "mastering" was done too, right?
I mean, if you can bust through a live track and have something ready to print by the time the cymbals stop ringing, you're a pretty amazing AE!
We play sloppy punk-rock stuff; some originals, and we cover random stuff from Screeching Weasel, The Descendents, The Misfits, etc...
He was comparing us to a band that I'm not familiar with called "Incubus".
Fwiw, after talking to him a little more, as near as I can tell, he's referring to the EQ and level more than anything.
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20th April 2010
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#12 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2009 Location: Flint MI
Posts: 517
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman HEY..
bass player for S.Filpansick....
don't be a butt munch.....
that do? | Haha... Thanks!
I should email him a link to that post!  | |
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20th April 2010
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#13 | | Gear nut
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 136
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Ask him to feel free to book some time.
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20th April 2010
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#14 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,210
| How many bass players does it take to screw in a lightbulb??
Doesn't matter, the keyboard player already did it with his left hand.
ok, I'll get my coat.........  | |
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20th April 2010
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#15 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Sep 2004 Location: London
Posts: 241
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Why don't you ask your brother if he's got a spare $100,000 (at least) to invest in the recording, to make it sound like Incubus?
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20th April 2010
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#16 | | Gear addict
Joined: Mar 2010 Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 486
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Get him to record a session, he might shh then
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20th April 2010
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#17 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Hell-Lay, CA
Posts: 114
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so remember that one christmas a long time ago, when you got the blue bike and he got the silver one? and he really wanted the blue bike... well, now its come back to bite you in the ass. so take that! :P or maybe he didnt get enough hugs as a kid. or maybe he doesnt like the way his wife looked at you during the holidays... or maybe....
it could be a hundred diff things. the fact that he didnt say something when you first started doing this, and that he's waited a year to realize he suddenly doesnt like the tracks makes me think its something else. sounds passive aggressive to me.
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21st April 2010
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#18 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2009 Location: Flint MI
Posts: 517
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by jrt12 so remember that one christmas a long time ago, when you got the blue bike and he got the silver one? and he really wanted the blue bike... well, now its come back to bite you in the ass. so take that! :P or maybe he didnt get enough hugs as a kid. or maybe he doesnt like the way his wife looked at you during the holidays... or maybe....
it could be a hundred diff things. the fact that he didnt say something when you first started doing this, and that he's waited a year to realize he suddenly doesnt like the tracks makes me think its something else. sounds passive aggressive to me. | The more I think about it, and the more I listen to the stuff we recorded at this last practice, the more I realize that he was baked out of his gourd! He was also complaining about how "tired" he was, and he was out partying late the night before... so I'm chalking it up to a combo of a major hangover and too much weed.
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21st April 2010
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#19 | | Gear maniac
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 221
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey The adult thing to do is look at him and say, yeh, well your bass playing sucks, too. | Heh, I did that once at a gig.
Self-styled band leader: I'd like you to turn down.
Me: Well I'd like you to get a decent bass sound and try to play in time with the music.
Things kind of went downhill from there.
-K
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22nd April 2010
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#20 | | Moderator
Joined: May 2007 Location: UK
Posts: 11,571
| Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Filpansick The more I think about it, and the more I listen to the stuff we recorded at this last practice, the more I realize that he was baked out of his gourd! He was also complaining about how "tired" he was, and he was out partying late the night before... so I'm chalking it up to a combo of a major hangover and too much weed. | ...MAAAYBE...... some major weed giving too much hangover ....
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22nd April 2010
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#21 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 232
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maybe you should tell him to buy a studio
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22nd April 2010
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#22 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2009 Location: Trondheim Norway
Posts: 1,213
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Let him do the recording once. If it's better fine. If not, tell him to stop whining! | |
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22nd April 2010
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#23 | | urumita
Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Spoleto, Italy
Posts: 2,383
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Just ignore him. What's he gonna do, quit the band? Punk-On man
Have you tried to mix anything yet? Mix one even if you have to spend 3 days to do it. I just recently finished a mix that took 6 months (maybe 40 hrs in total though), on 4 min of music, low track count, didn't work until I decided to make everyone the star. (NeoClassical) didn't find the key but when I did it turned out great.
Try my suggestion about how to setup the band for recording, it's worked for me doing demos
imboccalupo
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