Sound Recording Copyright/Artist Dispute

[gsharp]

First off I'm an idiot for not working out the particulars in writing at the beginning of all this. Lesson learned. Now that that's out of the way...

I have 7 tracks done with an artist and we've had a falling out over percentages etc... Since we were 7/10ths of the way done we really had to start hammering stuff out (I know, I know). So things have fallen totally apart over the $$.

So basically my question is:

Would there be any benefit/ability for me to copyright the recordings themselves (not making any claim to the underlying work) and try to exploit them through music supervisor/music editor connections to recoup my investment in the project? I would of course want her to get paid whatever she is entitled to as writer, etc... But as the creator of the recordings do I have the right to exploit the recordings so long as she gets paid whatever she is due under the law?

I looked at the Copyright Office website and they say that a performer (she obviously performed on it) OR the creator of the recording can claim copyright. Does this mean that I need to beat her to it or ???

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!!

g

[gsharp]

Originally Posted by JoeyB

Let her procure a PA copyright of her songs, and you can procure an SR copyright for the recording itself (providing that it is entirely your production).

Cool. It's 50/50 me and my partner on the production. He's down with the SR thing if it's doable.

So I can do whatever with the track as long as I'm the SR Copyright holder?

[BB Bill]

Originally Posted by gsharp

Cool. It's 50/50 me and my partner on the production. He's down with the SR thing if it's doable.

So I can do whatever with the track as long as I'm the SR Copyright holder?

absolutely not.

if these are original songs, and she's written them, either wholly or partly, you will need her consent before exploiting the songs.

the writer(s) of a song has the right to decide who's going to exploit it for the very first time. after the initial release, anyone can cover the song as they wish, as long as the original writer is credited and paid of course.

this means that if even if the artist has written only a small part of the music, you can't do nothing with the recordings unless she agrees to it.

sorry.

[gsharp]

She's selling re-recorded versions at her shows. Would that count as 1st release?

I guess she knows better than to sell mine, although she is streaming mine on her website, which I've asked her to stop.

[BB Bill]

Originally Posted by gsharp

She's selling re-recorded versions at her shows. Would that count as 1st release?

good question. i don't know.

you would have to check with a music biz attorney.

best of luck.

[gsharp]

Originally Posted by JoeyB

My suggestion would be to get the SR copyright then put them on the shelf for now and move on. If she goes on to become succesful, then make a move. Otherwise, it could be a lot of wasted time on your part on a project that obviously isn't leaving a good taste in your mouth.

Sounds like a plan. My partner's really hungry to do something, but has a lot more emotionally invested in it than I do (he was also her live drummer) and takes the whole thing as a big fuuck

I was just hoping for some kind of out before I shitcan the whole thing. So I'll SR copyright it, let her put out an EP on an indie or something and then make a move with our tracks.

Thanks to all for the info and advice.

[Scinx]

It sounds like youve reached a conclusion. However, here is my hunch - I would say that, you can indeed get the copyright for the SR of the track(s) you produced/recorded whatever. However, she is free to re-record that track and put it out whereby you'd have no recourse against her. Isnt this why record companies require you to sign exclusivity agreements with language preventing an artist from re-recording tracks recorded while under the record contracts?

Good luck in any case

[bloodstone]

Did she pay you anything for your efforts? What understanding did you have going into the project? I'm not so sure you can get away with registering an SR unless you wrote the music and performed all the parts. I mean you may "get away with it" but in the long run it may not hold up. Unless she signed a release.

I always understood that registering something with the LOC doesn't really prove you own the rights to something. I stopped wasting my money on registrations.

I'm no expert in this, but when I went into a big time studio I didn't make the engineer sign a release stating that he had no claim to the masters. But in that case he got paid. I'm not sure it's common practice for engineers to lay claim to masters. Producers I guess yes in some cases.

Tell me this, what actually would you think you could lay claim to on a Form SR anyway?

This might end up being one of those deals you have to chalk up to experience.

Personally I never do anything on spec unless I have something iron-clad in writing. Even then, it's probably better to get paid up front.

[gsharp]

Originally Posted by bloodstone

Did she pay you anything for your efforts? What understanding did you have going into the project? I'm not so sure you can get away with registering an SR unless you wrote the music and performed all the parts. I mean you may "get away with it" but in the long run it may not hold up. Unless she signed a release.

I always understood that registering something with the LOC doesn't really prove you own the rights to something. I stopped wasting my money on registrations.

I'm no expert in this, but when I went into a big time studio I didn't make the engineer sign a release stating that he had no claim to the masters. But in that case he got paid. I'm not sure it's common practice for engineers to lay claim to masters. Producers I guess yes in some cases.

Tell me this, what actually would you think you could lay claim to on a Form SR anyway?

This might end up being one of those deals you have to chalk up to experience.

Personally I never do anything on spec unless I have something iron-clad in writing. Even then, it's probably better to get paid up front.

Nope, no payment. We were going to 'work out' %'s, etc... which is where it all fell apart.

According to the copyright office website "the contribution of the person or persons responsible for capturing and processing the sounds to make the final recording" is copyright-able. I did a re-mix for an artist for UK radio and had to sign off on any interest in it.

You right about the spec thing. Like Josh Freese says "When it's a spec deal that just means I 'spec not to get paid."

I'm thinkin no more freebies, no more spec stuff. No more working it out later, no more Mr. nice guy. I mean, keep crankin out the latte's @ Starbucks until you can pay me something up front, or be prepared to hand over a significant % in advance. Otherwise there is no need for me to do it.

Thanks guys.

[dbbubba]

Rule #1 Part A

Have EVERYTHING completely understood by EVERYONE about how EVERYONE expects to be compensated.

Rule #1 Part B

Have it written down in contract form and signed by ALL parties BEFORE any work is done.

I have seen people do a lot of work for artists and production companies that got screwed because they were naieve and didn't get anything in contract form first.

Still, if the artist isn't making any money off of the work in question there is nothing to sue them over! You can't bring a lawsuit over hurt feelings or dissapointment. You'd have to prove that the webstreaming makes some revenue. That's gonna' be hard to do.

Case in point:
I mixed a live radio broadcast of Metallica in 1989 that was broadcast live over a twenty city network. I also multitracked the show for them as well. Before I shipped them the 2" masters I did a mix of selected songs and I threw the DAT tape in with the 2" masters when I shipped them off to the band. They released a CD in Europe that was "give-away" and used my mixes. I didn't even get my name mentioned on the CD!
Still, it was a promo release, so what could I sue for? (I could technically explain why it is without any doubt my mixes, but just trust me on this.)

I also own the publishing on a piece of music that was used on an HBO Comedy Relief show. The composer gave the piece to them and they used the music score that I own and also produced and recorded for Dionne Warwick and some other people to sing over. I'll never get paid a dime! I own a VHS copy of the thing, but HBO doesn't ever pay royalties and I've asked a few music biz attorneys about it and they say "forget it."
At least I can watch it and say, "Hey! I own that!"

Actually, you don't want to try to collect money from an artist's use of your recordings.
They have to get signed from your demo unless you are clever enough to get a contract that makes you have to be bought off if the artist does get signed. The label or someone involved will pay more money to have you out of the "pie" when it's cut up! In other words, you'd take a settlement to sign your rights away. Labels won't take on an artist that is bound contractually with too many people. They want them free and clear. They just buy off all of the people that have interest in the project.

Actually, unless you can shop the artist to the labels yourself you'll probebly always get screwed unless you have a good contract. I have seen producers do a demo on spec and then successfully shop the band only to be paid off. Not a bad deal really!

Good luck!

Danny Brown