Where to go from here...

[duffy878]

hey guys, so here goes...

I've been out of college now for about a year (BS in audio, AS in electronics) and have been getting steady pay editing a radio show and a local TV show hosted by the same person. Both air weekly, except for pledge time (listeners hate it, I love it).

Well anyways, I really start to doubt my sanity after a long week when the deadlines are quickly approaching. I'm basically listening to one person talk all day and the only thing that seems to keep me going are delusions of escaping to NY or LA to record music. The other problem is that in doing a good job I've gotten increasingly more responsibility regarding the programs, like managing their online radio station. This in turn is bringing me farther away from what I really want to be doing, which is studio work or tech work. I've been busy recording local bands and fixing guitar amps in my spare time but that really isn't bringing in any money for me at this point.

What seems to get you guys through the tough days/weeks? And does it seem logical to you guys for me to drop this job, move to Manhattan/Brooklyn, and try to get my foot in the door somewhere to work for free on the slim chance I'll get hired?

Somebody please, drop some wisdom for a young'n

[Maur Bighley]

Here's my 2 cents.

I have been in a lot of different industries for more than 20 years form the US Navy to overseas production. In each one I have learned something useful that even applies to working with clients in my music pursuits. I imagine that where you're at now is giving you the added responsibilities because you must be proving you're capable of added duties and without even knowing it you are gaining experience for your studio goals.

I'll give some examples:

Navy: learned to work with all types of people and under pressure

Logistics: Warehousing, Distribution and Customer Support

Overseas Production: Managing production schedules with over 20 different suppliers for one product line alone.

How does this help? Well I do mobile recording, physical production, storage and distribution of CD's so my background helped me get contacts with people in logistics and how to communicate with people in multiple industries (sounds simple, but each industry has their own lingo that you gotta know to have them do what you want).

My short answer is don't be surprised with what you'll learn now when it becomes helpful later on.

Carefully look at what you want. Decide on a city you thing offers the best fit for your goal. Try to make some contacts before you go, even visit the city a few times. But when you feel like you're just spinning your wheels at your present job, remember you're always picking up something useful without realizing it.

[-silent-sam-]

Originally Posted by duffy878

hey guys, so here goes...

I've been out of college now for about a year (BS in audio, AS in electronics) and have been getting steady pay editing a radio show and a local TV show hosted by the same person. Both air weekly, except for pledge time (listeners hate it, I love it).

Well anyways, I really start to doubt my sanity after a long week when the deadlines are quickly approaching. I'm basically listening to one person talk all day and the only thing that seems to keep me going are delusions of escaping to NY or LA to record music. The other problem is that in doing a good job I've gotten increasingly more responsibility regarding the programs, like managing their online radio station. This in turn is bringing me farther away from what I really want to be doing, which is studio work or tech work. I've been busy recording local bands and fixing guitar amps in my spare time but that really isn't bringing in any money for me at this point.

What seems to get you guys through the tough days/weeks? And does it seem logical to you guys for me to drop this job, move to Manhattan/Brooklyn, and try to get my foot in the door somewhere to work for free on the slim chance I'll get hired?

Somebody please, drop some wisdom for a young'n

I have absolutely no perseverance when it comes to holding a "job". I have picked up good paying, audio post gig's that lasted a couple months, in order to save money, and I wanted to quit 3 days in.... So I know your pain!

Moving to NY or LA isn't a bad idea.... It's what I would want to do if I was in your situation HOWEVER you must be prepared for the fact that you will not make any money for a long time, and you must be prepared for the fact that it costs a-lot to live in these cities. Sure.... you may be able to get a part time radio gig down there, but that is only going to distract you, and prolong the amount of time that you are making no money recording..... The more dedicated to recording that you are, the faster thing's will happen, considering you are doing a good job.

I would say go.... but don't go until you have money in the bank. I wouldn't leave until I had AT-LEAST 10 grand in the bank. (unless you have some kind of solid financial backing..... like rich parents who are more then happy to pay your expenses)

The more money you have saved, the less stressful it will be. You will be able to focus on working in a studio, and working your way up. The more money you have saved, the less likely you will have to return home, because your broke.

Having some of your own gear helps too.... When I did my first internship, I was no paid, however I did get a discount on studio time. Being an in-experienced engineer, who nobody has ever heard of, convincing a band to pay the discounted rate to track was tough never-mind trying to convince them to spend additional money to mix. Ideally you would want to track AND mix in the studio, but at first thats likely going to cost WAY too much for you. Even if you can get bands to pay that much money, the worst thing you can do is charge a bunch of money, and deliver a not so great product because of your inexperience. It's bad for your rep and bad for the studio's rep.

If you have a pro-tools rig and some good monitors at home AT-LEAST you can track in the studio, and mix at home for free, and start getting your name out there.... because in the end that is what is going to make you money. Getting your name out there, and bringing in your projects to the studio.... thats how YOU make money.

So yeah.... Go.... but don't go until you have some money saved, and don't go until you have a half decent mix rig of your own..... go prepared to record / learn recording and nothing else.

[duffy878]

I definitely understand what your saying mojo and I agree. I picked up a lot at my current job but 'spinning my wheels' certainly describes it as of late. I really appreciate the insight. I think having a positive outlook like yours will also help me move forward.

Sam, the money thing is a significant part of the dilemma; when's the right time to jump ship is what I keep debating. Another part is that I'll be fighting to get noticed in a sea of fullsail graduates... no offense to them or the school, But I feel like there are so many grads from those kind of schools (and mine, I suppose) that it makes it harder to get noticed with regard to having a degree in something actually technical. I know that really doesn't matter to most studios anymore... event though in most other fields a degree gives you an edge.

I am fortunate in that I have my own protools rig and some decent monitors as well as some significant time actually mixing and I see your point about that getting me ahead. I'm working on saving the funds to pick up some alright pres, then every extra penny is staying in the bank.

Thanks guys I really appreciate it.

[-silent-sam-]

Originally Posted by duffy878

I definitely understand what your saying mojo and I agree. I picked up a lot at my current job but 'spinning my wheels' certainly describes it as of late. I really appreciate the insight. I think having a positive outlook like yours will also help me move forward.

Sam, the money thing is a significant part of the dilemma; when's the right time to jump ship is what I keep debating. Another part is that I'll be fighting to get noticed in a sea of fullsail graduates... no offense to them or the school, But I feel like there are so many grads from those kind of schools (and mine, I suppose) that it makes it harder to get noticed with regard to having a degree in something actually technical. I know that really doesn't matter to most studios anymore... event though in most other fields a degree gives you an edge.

I am fortunate in that I have my own protools rig and some decent monitors as well as some significant time actually mixing and I see your point about that getting me ahead. I'm working on saving the funds to pick up some alright pres, then every extra penny is staying in the bank.

Thanks guys I really appreciate it.

In my experiences it is not hard to get "internships" or to "get your foot in the door" even with the steady flow of graduates from audio schools such as fullsail.....It seems like it is harder to actually KEEP the internship and even that isn't that hard if you do what you are there to do, and you do a good job. YES not all fullsail grads are complete idiot's, however a-lot of them are.... For every graduating class let's say 10% of the class with actually land internships.... probably less then 3% will actually keep there internship for more then a couple weeks, and probably .5% will keep there internship and go on to record and make money..... a-lot of what separates that 3% and that .5% from the rest of them is common sense and a half decent work ethic.

Some people do internships, do them well, and simply decide this isn't for them. Unfortunately most people I have seen do internships either quit because it's not as glamorous as they thought, or they are fired because they are "stupid"..... or just not the right kind of person.

YES anyone can run pro tools....YES EVERYONE has graduated from some kind of audio school. However everyone can't do what they are told..... everyone can't take criticism...... everyone isn't good with people..... everyone isn't dedicated enough that they will stick around after they find out what they are going to have to do for the next 8 months before they get paid anything..... Everyone isn't self motivated enough to find musicians to record when they first start out...... Everyone doesn't know how to find musicians to record when they first start out.

I graduated from 2 audio schools as-well, and I can count on one hand people from both my graduating classes who are making ANY money recording or producing or mixing music.

I am a quiet guy.... I am not the kind of guy who walks into a studio and bursting with confidence and knowledge... I am not the kind of guy that walk's in the studio and before I do anything everyone KNOWS I MUST know what I am doing..... And I have never had problems getting and keeping internships. If I can do it, anyone who actually WANTS to do it, can do it.


So in the end I wouldn't worry about that..... Just worry about saving money and putting yourself into a position that you can focus on recording and not have to wonder whens the next time you are going to be able to afford to eat.

Like I said.... the more money you save, the easier it is going to be..... As shitty as working is now if you head to LA or NY with no money and try to intern you won't last long with no one backing you up.


Also well you are working and saving.... Get out there in the city you live in now. Again from my experiences most mid to large sized studio's (or basically any studio that isn't in some dudes basement) are happy to have you come hang out and start bringing in your own sessions...... These studios NEED money and they want yours! (or should I say, they want the money of the bands you are recording).... Chances are if you ask to learn the room so you can bring in bands, and you ask to work out a decent rate, they won't say no. THEY WANT YOUR MONEY AND YOUR BUSINESS.

In a case of a smaller studio with smaller producers and engineers, where you don't necessarily feel like you can learn a whole lot from them, shoot them an email and tell them you want to start bringing sessions into there studio, but you would like to come hang out and learn the room first.

Go to the studio, hang out, build a relationship with the owner, and once your comfortable with the gear, get on myspace and start finding young bands who have enough money to record.... or better yet go to shows and approach the opening bands. Get the email and get them to pay for some studio time.... start recording bands and possibly making a little bit of extra cash on the side..... you will gain experience, confidence, AND you will have recordings to show for yourself when you do get to LA or NY, so when the studio you are interning at says "go ahead and book your own session for next month" you got examples of your work to show to bands.

[duffy878]

Its definitely reassuring knowing that I'm doing most of those things in some way or another.

Thanks again Sam.