Login / Register
 
Waves V7 under Logic 64-bit---->shame
New Reply
Subscribe
master2000
Thread Starter
#1
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #1
Gear interested
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19

Thread Starter
master2000 is offline
Waves V7 under Logic 64-bit---->shame

January 2010

If you plan to use Logic 64-bit and use Waves V7 plug-ins, please read the following important notes:
For several years now, Waves processing on Native systems has used 64-bit floating point precision algorithms that run on 32-bit operating systems. Our testing has shown that moving to a 64-bit OS will not improve sound performance or quality.

"i think better memory usage and more memory addressing with 64 bit....or not?"

Waves V7 plug-ins have been tested under Logic 64-bit; general functionality and session compatibility have been correct in the majority of cases.
However, performance shows no improvement, and we haven't yet found any significant benefit to using our processors in a 64-bit operating system.

"why i have a macpro nahelm with 64 bit,when you think 32 bit is allright.
it is better to use leopard and not snow leopard?"


In fact, they actually run slower than under 32-bit hosts, and, in some cases, CPU performance may actually suffer.

"nooo....orignal logic 64 bit plug ins running better as the 32 bit versions...upsss i tested by myself!"

Waves is already working on native 64-bit versions of our plug-ins, but as our code base is so large and extensive, we do not anticipate full support before 2011.
While we expect to make significant progress during 2010, an ETA will be published once we have better sense of the development schedule.

"you earn so much money with your wup and your plug ins,other companys like native-instruments have 64 bit plug ins already(kontakt 4)....you are out of time...we are not in the year 1995!!"

i cannot belive this why a company like waves are so ignorant with 64 bit plug ins.
i still using ssl 4000,waves diamond bundle
__________________
Rockrueppel Comp One,TC 6000 MKII,Manley Massive Passive Mastering EQ,Metric Halo Uln 8/Lio 8
#2
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
 
clonewar's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Mars Hill, NC
Posts: 1,423

clonewar is online now
This should be in Music Computers....or the Moan Zone..
#3
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: OSNY, Val d'Oise (95), France
Posts: 1,609

K-Slash is offline
Can someone move that thread away from the New Product Alert! category...

By the way like they said, there are no real benefit for effects plugins to be 64-bits coded.

So if you can use a 32-bits plugins in a 64-bits host, there is no reason to whine like that.

Added to that, like they say, their codebase is HUGE so for porting ALL the code and test it, it takes LOT of time.
#4
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 
audiomichael's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: L. A.-ish
Posts: 2,262

audiomichael is offline
Where did you get this info?
#5
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: OSNY, Val d'Oise (95), France
Posts: 1,609

K-Slash is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
Where did you get this info?
Which info ? You mean support for 2011 ? Good question.
#6
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #6
Lives for gear
 
audiomichael's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: L. A.-ish
Posts: 2,262

audiomichael is offline
Yes. The OP's info on Waves 64bit upgrade. I'm not worried about power or memory efficiency with Waves stuff, but using the 64bit plugin wrapper is uncomfortable and inefficient from a workflow point of view.
__________________
Michael David Nielsen - Composer / Producer / Lover ...of gear
http://michaelnielsenmusic.com/

master2000
Thread Starter
#7
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #7
Gear interested
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19

Thread Starter
master2000 is offline
#8
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #8
Lives for gear
 
audiomichael's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: L. A.-ish
Posts: 2,262

audiomichael is offline
Thanks for posting that. But I don't know how you can shame Waves:

Waves is already working on native 64-bit versions of our plug-ins, but as our code base is so large and extensive, we do not anticipate full support before 2011. While we expect to make significant progress during 2010, an ETA will be published once we have better sense of the development schedule. Apple has provided a bridge solution that lets you run 32-bit plug-ins on the 64-bit OS, but our testing has not found its implementation to be up to Apple's usual engineering standards, with many bugs.

I have a TON of plugins and the ONLY company that has ANYTHING 64bit is Spectrasonics, and that's RMX.
#9
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 653

Send a message via AIM to arimaka
arimaka is offline
How can they say that the 64-bit versions would take more CPU and suffer in performance? I think they are just taking their experience with Windows 64-bit and believing that the same will be in OS X....

I understand that they have a huge product line to move to 64-bit, but get moving and stop making excuses!!
#10
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #10
Lives for gear
 
octatonic's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: An Australian in London
Posts: 5,693

octatonic is offline
I'm not surprised at all.
I reckon a lot of companies will be the same.

Remember when we switched from Power PC to MacIntel?
__________________
"I don't go to mythical places with strange men." Douglas Adams
#11
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 2,075

Larry Mal is offline
What they are saying is not clear:

"For several years now, Waves processing on Native systems has used 64-bit floating point precision algorithms that run on 32-bit operating systems. Our testing has shown that moving to a 64-bit OS will not improve sound performance or quality."

None of this is the point. A 64 bit OS has nothing to do with sound quality. 64 bit floating point precision algorithms do, but that doesn't have anything to do with Logic going to 64 bit.

The point of a 64 bit application (not the OS, not the precision algorithms) is to allow for virtually unlimited RAM access. It has nothing to do with how anything sounds.

If I know this, then Waves knows this. Why they have written such a disambiguous thing as what they have written is mystifying, and doesn't really give me much confidence in whatever it is they are doing.

And yeah, that's a good point- what is everybody paying the WUP for, didn't Waves see 64 bit applications coming? I did. You've got to imagine that your Waves WUP is going to the company's wallet, and making new packages to sell, and not embracing the wave of the future.

Anyway, I'm not a big Waves user, and what I have I'm more or less happy with for the money, but this is an odd thing to say online by them.
__________________
"I can't read anymore of Larry Mal posts. I'm beginning to sound like King Arthur, Elton John, Susan Boyle, Wolf Blitzer, Freddy Jackson and Snoop Dogg mixed into one."
#12
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #12
Gear addict
 
7thangelz's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: toronto
Posts: 428

Send a message via AIM to 7thangelz
7thangelz is offline
wait a sec, mac daws have just made it to the 64 bit party, expecting plugs to be ready for you is more than just a little impatient

besides coding all those plugs, for both platforms in various formats, they have to figure out how they're going to distribute them. either combined x86/x64 like psp and voxengo, and making sure it doesn't increase any more potential hassles for users when updating and such, or separately for those that are going 64 bit.

seriously, how many mac only plugin venders, big and small, have 64 bit plugs? are you putting pressure on them as well?
#13
28th January 2010
Old 28th January 2010
  #13
Gear addict
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 319

Jay Lee is offline
Well, this is a case where we should blame Apple, not the companies making plugins. It takes time to code plugins and had Apple given the 64-bit version of Logic 9 (sure they had it almost ready then) last summer to the developers, we might have quite a bit 64-bit supporting going on. But when Apple insists on keeping everything hush hush from everyone even developers, this is what we get. And the funny thing is, it's not like version 9.1 of Logic was some sort of grand trade secret that was going to effect the Apple stock value or anything. If they wanted they could have given prelimenary versions to developers.
#14
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 2,075

Larry Mal is offline
For the record, I'm not really blaming them for having 64 bit ready or not. I am, though, calling out their bullshit release on their site.
#15
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #15
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Senora La Reina de Los Angeles de Porciuncula
Posts: 3,864

gsilbers is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Mal View Post
What they are saying is not clear:

"For several years now, Waves processing on Native systems has used 64-bit floating point precision algorithms that run on 32-bit operating systems. Our testing has shown that moving to a 64-bit OS will not improve sound performance or quality."

None of this is the point. A 64 bit OS has nothing to do with sound quality. 64 bit floating point precision algorithms do, but that doesn't have anything to do with Logic going to 64 bit.

The point of a 64 bit application (not the OS, not the precision algorithms) is to allow for virtually unlimited RAM access. It has nothing to do with how anything sounds.

If I know this, then Waves knows this. Why they have written such a disambiguous thing as what they have written is mystifying, and doesn't really give me much confidence in whatever it is they are doing.

And yeah, that's a good point- what is everybody paying the WUP for, didn't Waves see 64 bit applications coming? I did. You've got to imagine that your Waves WUP is going to the company's wallet, and making new packages to sell, and not embracing the wave of the future.

Anyway, I'm not a big Waves user, and what I have I'm more or less happy with for the money, but this is an odd thing to say online by them.


+1
agree


the idea of 64 bit OS is not to do with plugin performance. it has to do with RAM limitaiton on 32 bit apps.

that means that if you use sample heavy interments like trilian, kontakt libraries etc
they add up along with your sequencers use of memory (plugins+ track count etc)
which in 32 bit is limited to 3gb of ram and then what would be the use of getting a 16gb+ computer?

so a 64 bit waves plugin wont have a better sound or performance on its own but will enable to be intalled in a native 64 bit host on a 64 bit OS and the RAM performance will be better. the real issue is the 3gb ram limit on 32 bit, which wiht current sample intruments can be reach quickly.

now, do i side with waves, no. they should make their plugins 64 bit so we dont have to use the "bit bridge" or memory severs softwares that will soon vanished and are just a contingency plan for the transition.

the bit bridge in logic is very flimsy and crashes frequently. same as jbridge in windows.
#16
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 653

Send a message via AIM to arimaka
arimaka is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Lee View Post
Well, this is a case where we should blame Apple, not the companies making plugins. It takes time to code plugins and had Apple given the 64-bit version of Logic 9 (sure they had it almost ready then) last summer to the developers, we might have quite a bit 64-bit supporting going on. But when Apple insists on keeping everything hush hush from everyone even developers, this is what we get. And the funny thing is, it's not like version 9.1 of Logic was some sort of grand trade secret that was going to effect the Apple stock value or anything. If they wanted they could have given prelimenary versions to developers.
Developers do get pre-release versions of Logic!
Waves is simply not telling us the truth; they should have (and probably did) started 64-bit AU development a while ago!!
#17
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,612

Mr.HOLMES is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
+1
agree


the idea of 64 bit OS is not to do with plugin performance. it has to do with RAM limitaiton on 32 bit apps.

that means that if you use sample heavy interments like trilian, kontakt libraries etc
they add up along with your sequencers use of memory (plugins+ track count etc)
which in 32 bit is limited to 3gb of ram and then what would be the use of getting a 16gb+ computer?

so a 64 bit waves plugin wont have a better sound or performance on its own but will enable to be intalled in a native 64 bit host on a 64 bit OS and the RAM performance will be better. the real issue is the 3gb ram limit on 32 bit, which wiht current sample intruments can be reach quickly.

now, do i side with waves, no. they should make their plugins 64 bit so we dont have to use the "bit bridge" or memory severs softwares that will soon vanished and are just a contingency plan for the transition.

the bit bridge in logic is very flimsy and crashes frequently. same as jbridge in windows.
Thats right but as far as I have my information it is not realty yet???
Not in Logic 8 and as well not in Logic 9 .....told me my retailer... so the logic users still have to live with limitations...
#18
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #18
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Senora La Reina de Los Angeles de Porciuncula
Posts: 3,864

gsilbers is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
Thats right but as far as I have my information it is not realty yet???
Not in Logic 8 and as well not in Logic 9 .....told me my retailer... so the logic users still have to live with limitations...

hmm, sorry i didn't understand completely your comment.

Logic Pro 9.1 is 64 bit under snow leopard as well as 32 bit. it will depend on what you choose in the application info. (open in 32 or 64 bit)

waves is not 64 bit but will work on logic pro 9.1 under snow leopard fully 64 bit within the "bit bridge". nothing to do with floating point or better performance, it just enables waves to work in logic pro inside a 64 bit environment.

hope that clears up things.
#19
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 535

Dr Gruv is offline
mute points - NO ONE is ready

it shouldn't be the mess from os9 to osX but it will take sometime

relax
#20
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,140

work2do is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gruv View Post
mute points - NO ONE is ready

it shouldn't be the mess from os9 to osX but it will take sometime

relax
thumbsup

Plus the one thing u can never accuse waves of doing is not being prepared and updated when it is really time to go!
#21
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #21
Gear addict
 
7thangelz's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: toronto
Posts: 428

Send a message via AIM to 7thangelz
7thangelz is offline
#22
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #22
Lives for gear
 
octatonic's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: An Australian in London
Posts: 5,693

octatonic is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gruv View Post
mute points - NO ONE is ready

it shouldn't be the mess from os9 to osX but it will take sometime

relax
MOOT, not mute.
Jam
#23
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #23
Jam
Lives for gear
 
Jam's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: South East England
Posts: 1,516

Jam is offline
I'm usually a Waves defender but I'm disappointed by the tone of this. Please note disappointed not angry, furious or apoplectic.

I don't expect everything today or even tomorrow but the fact that RMX 64bit was released before there was even a 64bit host demonstrates that this is not really a surprise to the developer community.

RMX was also a free upgrade from a company that has no "subscription" income from it's customers.

There are a number of 64bit betas floating around from much smaller companies than Waves, I think we'll see a decent number of releases second quarter.

The WUP we pay should go some way to ensuring that Waves is amongst the first to the upgrade party every time. As by taking our upgrade fees in advance we are effectively funding the development.

Although I accept and understand that 64Bit will make little difference to their plug-ins, Waves plug-ins are only usable in conjunction with something else. They are not a "stand alone" supplier.

James

Last edited by Jam; 30th January 2010 at 05:02 PM.. Reason: Typo
#24
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 535

Dr Gruv is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
MOOT, not mute.
I thought it was a funny pun
#25
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #25
Lives for gear
 
mac black's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: london
Posts: 2,889

mac black is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam View Post
I'm usually a Waves defender but I'm disappointed by the tone of this. Please note disappointed not angry, furious or apoplectic.

I don't expect everything today or even tomorrow but the fact that RMX 64bit was released before there was even a 64bit host demonstrates that this is not really a surprise to the developer community.

RMX was also a free upgrade from a company that has no "subscription" income from it's customers.

There are a number of 64bit betas floating around from much smaller companies than Waves, I think we'll see a decent number of releases second quarter.

The WUP we pay should go some way to ensuring that Waves is amongst the first to the upgrade party every time. As by taking our upgrade fees in advance we are affectively funding the development.

Although I accept and understand that 64Bit will make little difference to their plug-ins, Waves plug-ins are only usable in conjunction with something else. They are not a "stand alone" supplier.

James

wise words, why should we pay wup for a year without seeing any significant change (like moving to 64bit)
__________________
"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil" ...
- Thomas Mann
#26
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #26
Lives for gear
 
audiomichael's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: L. A.-ish
Posts: 2,262

audiomichael is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac black View Post

wise words, why should we pay wup for a year without seeing any significant change (like moving to 64bit)
I too am disapointed that 64bit Waves aren't coming next month. The Logic 32bit wrapper is a pain. But instruments HAVE to be 64bit. Trillian and Atmosphere were almost unuasable (or 1 instance usable) in 32bit mode. EQ, compressor, etc, plugins aren't as RAM hungry.

As far as WUP, it's tricky because as a Mercury WUP'r, I've had an incredible year of updates. I almost feel guilty! Buy when I had Platinum... yes... It wasn't nearly as good.
#27
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #27
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Songwriter Gulch, Nashville TN
Posts: 13,252

Bob Olhsson is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gruv View Post
...it shouldn't be the mess from os9 to osX but it will take sometime
It is actually likely to be a much bigger mess with lots of broken OS code and frequent fixes to the OS that break application code. Reworking old code in a manner that fixes problems that were unknown with 32 bit addressing while maintaining backward compatibility so you can still bring up a ten year old audio production project is not a trivial task. I'd be willing to bet that most developers have already been working on this for at least five years however the OS is a moving target because it needs to work with all applications.
__________________
Bob's room 615 562-4346
Georgetown Masters 615 254-3233
Music Industry 2.0
Interview
Artists are the gatekeepers of truth! - Paul Robeson
#28
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #28
Lives for gear
 
octatonic's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: An Australian in London
Posts: 5,693

octatonic is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gruv View Post
I thought it was a funny pun
It would be, if it was.
But I think we both know it was not.

#29
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #29
Gear addict
 
7thangelz's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: toronto
Posts: 428

Send a message via AIM to 7thangelz
7thangelz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam View Post
I don't expect everything today or even tomorrow but the fact that RMX 64bit was released before there was even a 64bit host demonstrates that this is not really a surprise to the developer community.
just a clarification, there were 64 bit hosts prior to the rmx 1.7 release which introduced their first 64 bit app.

there's less incentive for vst fx makers like sonnox, softube, waves, fabfilter, spl, etc in comparison to vsti makers but they'll eventually offer both versions as 64 bit o/s and hosts mature more and, more importantly, more people make the move. for that, the various bridges will have to get better. right now, the perception is that 64 bit isn't ready for primetime even if the cause of some of the instability is due to the 32 bit plugs when being bridged

on the mac side, things might get better for you if both cubase and studio one have 64 bit versions for mac like they do for pc

i'm more concerned with uad when it comes to 64 bit (still no sidechaining, no vst3) and digi as well, both tend to move like dinosaurs.

expect more 64 bit plugs by the end of the year. cubase/reaper/studio one helped push some devs that were slow to make them when sonar was all alone, step up. this will be another push. if we could get at least one or two more 'known' hosts to offer x64 versions combined with customer/community pressure, some of the more reluctant ones will have to take it more seriously.
#30
29th January 2010
Old 29th January 2010
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 535

Dr Gruv is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
It would be, if it was.
But I think we both know it was not.

really
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
jwleeman / Music Computers
28
Eigenwert / Music Computers
8
Eigenwert / Music Computers
0
toolskid / So much gear, so little time!
3
Chucho / Music Computers
0

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.