When Should I Start Asking Where Payment Is???

[voicegenius]

How long should payment take if you do work for someone? Like, when should I start asking where the check is? I do many projects for next to nothing and it seems like the small money ones take forever to pay than the big ones... What's your diplomatic way of asking for payment?

I don't wanna be Iceberg Slim, but....

[reid]

It's very bad business to not have some kind of agreement with your client about payment terms before you start work - it's just asking for trouble. In Europe, normal terms seem to be a 30 day invoice, though some big media companies have really been taking the piss in recent years and operating on a 90 day invoice.

How long have you been kept waiting with the gig that's giving you grief?

[voicegenius]

Originally Posted by reid

It's very bad business to not have some kind of agreement with your client about payment terms before you start work - it's just asking for trouble. In Europe, normal terms seem to be a 30 day invoice, though some big media companies have really been taking the piss in recent years and operating on a 90 day invoice.

How long have you been kept waiting with the gig that's giving you grief?

I guess I should wait one more week based on those terms...

Whether it be $20 or $20,000, I guess it doesn't matter.... people will pay when they see fit or when u get in that ass which then, they STILL may not pay you...

[HookedOnHardware]

Originally Posted by voicegenius

I guess I should wait one more week based on those terms...

Whether it be $20 or $20,000, I guess it doesn't matter.... people will pay when they see fit or when u get in that ass which then, they STILL may not pay you...

They might be the type of people who are extra inclined to stretch it if not reminded. Some people only pay when asked, instead of initiating it themselves.

My parents have a couple condo's here which they rent out and this one guy hadn't paid for 5 months. His reason? He was waiting for an invoice or something (the bloody bank account number and way of payment was in the contract). Lazy motherf*cker .

It seems you don't have one yet, but you sould really come up with a contract of some sort with the terms and such. People won't take you seriously if you don't (assuming the business side of things is still in it's early-ish stages).

If need be, just hire someone to pummel them a bit .

[donsolo]

I personally don't release anything until I'm paid...
Otherwise it's a Net 30 terms in writing prior.

[HookedOnHardware]

Originally Posted by donsolo

I personally don't release anything until I'm paid...

+1.

Combined with a deposit upfront (for bigger projects) is pretty much what you should do (and have it in writing).

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by reid

It's very bad business to not have some kind of agreement with your client about payment terms before you start work - it's just asking for trouble. In Europe, normal terms seem to be a 30 day invoice, though some big media companies have really been taking the piss in recent years and operating on a 90 day invoice.

How long have you been kept waiting with the gig that's giving you grief?

two years was the worst!! Big company balancing on the brink for several years - and we outsourcers suffered. They paid the interest though.

[HookedOnHardware]

Originally Posted by narcoman

two years was the worst!! Big company balancing on the brink for several years - and we outsourcers suffered. They paid the interest though.

Mine was about 3 or 4 months. The woman 'forgot' to mention that she was going on a -mini around the world- trip.

[MikeSV]

I'm going to go ahead and quote Philly on this one: "All $$$ paid upfront".

[narcoman]

No corporate gig pays 100% up front. Usually third up front, third on milestone one then the rest on completion. Private gigs - yeah. Get it up front - but no company is going to put up £200k all up front.

[Mantik]

Originally Posted by voicegenius

How long should payment take if you do work for someone? Like, when should I start asking where the check is? I do many projects for next to nothing and it seems like the small money ones take forever to pay than the big ones... What's your diplomatic way of asking for payment?

I don't wanna be Iceberg Slim, but....

I would like to answer you but your avatar disctracts me at the moment.
Yes... I realy think the gearsluts moan zone is one of the best places in the internet to be.
Good luck!

[Chris Lago]

You need to get paid upfront, that's it.

[akai96]

Originally Posted by narcoman

No corporate gig pays 100% up front. Usually third up front, third on milestone one then the rest on completion. Private gigs - yeah. Get it up front - but no company is going to put up £200k all up front.

that's true

[akai96]

Originally Posted by narcoman

two years was the worst!! Big company balancing on the brink for several years - and we outsourcers suffered. They paid the interest though.

suffered the same crap.

[kittonian]

The best way to handle any sort of payment is to mandate 50% of the estimated costs up front prior to work beginning and the other 50% prior to any materials being delivered.

These days, especially in the current economic situation, there are so many freelancers in various professions that are getting screwed because they tried to be nice about getting paid. Stop being nice and start taking care of yourself. You can't walk into a grocery store and hope they won't ask to be paid for the food you'd like to walk out with. They expect to be paid on the spot before that food leaves the store. Why should a recording studio be any different. Before the client gets to leave with the materials, the bill needs to be paid in full.

[rcb4t2]

Originally Posted by kittonian

Stop being nice and start taking care of yourself. You can't walk into a grocery store and hope they won't ask to be paid for the food you'd like to walk out with. They expect to be paid on the spot before that food leaves the store. Why should a recording studio be any different. Before the client gets to leave with the materials, the bill needs to be paid in full.

thumbsup

Well put!

[AllAboutTone]

When do you need to collect payment ? before they leave.

[primitive]

It depends to me... If it's a company I know and want to come again, I'll call up when the money is needed. Usually this never is a problem. Anyway I got some law-insurance, so if some lads think they don't need to respond to that i'll work their asses costing me only one phonecall.
Actually if someone doesn't pay his/her bills and is not responding i don't care if I piss them off.
I just learned that you should do a contract for everything you do in advance. In my case that would helped me a lot. Still I refuse to do it most of the times, cos I don't want to see every incoming human being a potential asshole. And funnily that works 9,5 out of 10 times.
I also tend to not give away anything usefull before payment.

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by chrislago

You need to get paid upfront, that's it.

Bingo X 10,000

I have a buddy who just did project and got screwed
out of $7,000
He even put them up in his place while recording for a week

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by narcoman

No corporate gig pays 100% up front. Usually third up front, third on milestone one then the rest on completion. Private gigs - yeah. Get it up front - but no company is going to put up £200k all up front.

Narcoman, this is the problem with the corporate gigs IMO. The ONLY guys in a position to change that is you big boys.

[Alv]

Originally Posted by primitive

Actually if someone doesn't pay his/her bills and is not responding i don't care if I piss them off.
I just learned that you should do a contract for everything you do in advance. In my case that would helped me a lot. Still I refuse to do it most of the times, cos I don't want to see every incoming human being a potential asshole. And funnily that works 9,5 out of 10 times.
I also tend to not give away anything usefull before payment.

Exactly. I always read these conversations and think, you can't just assume everyone is a deadbeat. That's bad business. Typical Business to Business transactions never ask 100% up front. It reads as arrogant and plays as insulting. They're only justified in asking for monies up front after the client has proven their inability to honor their end. However, I understand how it can be different with musicians.

An agreement up front and payment upon achieved milestones seems to lend respect to both parties the most evenly and there's nothing wrong with retainers. Every company takes hits. It will happen. You have to be tough collecting too. It's easy to chicken out. If some one is 90 days out. Then they start getting phones calls every single day, first thing in the morning.

[badboymusic]

Originally Posted by voicegenius

What's your diplomatic way of asking for payment?

Send an invoice, another in 2 weeks, then an invoice with PAST DUE stamped on it. 90% of the time the payment usually comes right after that. The other 10% is a pain in the ass.

[BlackBackDrop]

Always ask for an agreement and if its verbal record the conversation, dead easy with mobiles.

If they fail to meet the agreement then write one letter asking for payment. Make them aware that any further letters will cost £100, you can charge what you want btw! and send them signed for.

And keep sending them every 7 days until the total debt is worth selling to a debt recovery agency and your cut exceeds or matches the orginal agreement. I had one con man refuse to pay, after 10 weeks he owed me £1400 (10 letters asking for payment in 7 days). The agency recovered every penny.

Here is the more offical way to do it;

Debt factoring and invoice discounting: the basics | Business Link

Just had to use this tatic with a School I did some work for a few weeks ago, they refused to pay my expenses LOL. Did they pay in the end - oh yeah....