A lot of high end posts and threads seem inappropriate

[faeflora]

Has anyone noticed that a lot of posts and threads in the High End forum seem ill-suited for the High End forum?

[faeflora]

The noise floor seems to have been bumped significantly.

[DC11]

Then lets start rolling off the low-end

meaning take the shit out eeee

[Lindell]

Yes, but we are doing what we can to move the non high end posts to their right forums.... it's due to alot of new members posting here....

[natpub]

Originally Posted by Lindell

.... I think it's due to alot of new members posting here....

Agreed. I think some new folks think the High End is the best place to get trustworthy info from "the experts."

I'm a low ender myself, and 9 times outta 10, I gotta say, my best answers from the Low End forum where that expertise is focused.

There are plenty of High Enders answering questions there too folks, so don't feel you are getting a lame answer to yer questions there!

We deal with smaller budgets all the time, so the answers will probly be even more likely to solve yer problems (and, we also gotta improvise & adapt a lot of less-pricey solutions to problems where in the High End, folks are more likely to suggest you do something that is gonna be impossible for you to afford).


cheers!

[jdunn]

When I first arrived at Gearslutz, I lingered mostly in the High End. Then one day I noticed there were other forums here. Hopefully others will figure it out.

Perhaps there should be a sticky to tell people where to post different types of topics.

Such as:

1) Threads about bands should go in the Shoot The Breeze zone.

2) Threads about Neve clone vs. "______" should go away probably.

3) The Low End is cool. So is Music Computers. Check them out!

4) Remote Possibilities needs some action.

Or is that a stupid idea?

[Jules]

I thought I heard some bumping on the perimiter fence... better go check it out

[catfish11]

hey, if u only got
125.00 an art dio
is high end

[covert]

Originally Posted by AngeloClematide

may just rename the "Low End" department to "Desktop Soapbox Production Kids"

I think you should retract that comment. When I first started haning here, he low end moderator had a nice studio with a trident board, 2 inch 24 track, and good rooms and mics. I'm a basement guy, but far from desktop. Current moderators seem to be working with pretty serious stuff.

My personal take on low end is that it is people who do not consider a US$1,000.00 item cheap, even if similar vintage items go for 5-7 times that much.

[faeflora]

My personal take on high end is that a lot of people think that $1000 for one piece of gear is an atmospheric amount, and that anything that costs over $100 is "high end".

That's what all the sales whors at guitar center say too, and that the ART glowy tube pre is vintage and world class.

[Jim Williams]

Maybe some definition is in order. If I buy an expensive piece of s**t, should that be in the low end forum? If I buy a piece for 10 cents on the dollar, should that be in the low end even if it was very expensive new?

So what are the true values here?

Is it the true quality of the piece or it's original selling price?

My 224XL would usually be in the High End column, but I got it for free, so is that now low end?

If a piece of s**t gets reworked into something really great, should it be elevated to the High End column?

Sounds to me like these differences are shrinking away.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by faeflora

My personal take on high end is that a lot of people think that $1000 for one piece of gear is an atmospheric amount, and that anything that costs over $100 is "high end".

Really?

Can you point them out? I don't experience that myself, but I do find a few new members posting 'regular' questions here...but I don't see anyone actually getting upset about it...even the moderators jump in with typical gearslutz fashion and respond with courtesy or sometimes just move the thread.

I guess I am not noticing the problems here...

BTW..as Jim pointed out..How do you knwo what is what is not appropriate for 'High-End'?

Name brand? Cost? Stature? Vintage? Mojo? Vibe? Acceptance?

Too much to know for sure. I think this forum and SMGSLT forum have always been cross integrated.

P&R

[Lindell]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

So what are the true values here?

High End is not just about expensive gear! For me it is more the tone in a post. Let me show two examples:

1) "I'm gonna track drums tomorrow and wanna use a SM57 on snare and I have three preamps to choose from, DW Fearn, Neve1073 and a Telefunken V76. Which one would you choose for rock?"

2) "I'm gonna track drums tomorrow and wanna use a SM57 on snare and I have three preamps to choose from, Mackie 1604, Presonus and a Digi001. Which one would you choose for rock?"

Number one would stay in High End and number two would get moved. Do you get my point Jim?

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by Lindell

Yes, but we are doing what we can to move the non high end posts to their right forums.... I think it's due to alot of new members posting here....

Hey, Lindell, does that mean you guys are High Pass Filters?

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by covert

I think you should retract that comment. When I first started haning here, he low end moderator had a nice studio with a trident board, 2 inch 24 track, and good rooms and mics. I'm a basement guy, but far from desktop. Current moderators seem to be working with pretty serious stuff.

Well whudda know? That was me!!!

Kinda...

Without writing a novel, at the time I was the moderator of "rock & a hard place" which is now locked. When we (meaning Jules and I) decided to try and 'reinvent' the forum and slant it's direction we kicked around the idea of bringing in other people and the direction started to shift from a more production oriented gearless forum, to one specifically for low-end consumer gear. After picking a crew, a name and sorting through my old forum, I opted out so I could concentrate on things that are far more important to me. Besides, like Covert said...I'm not a low-end guy by any stretch. Hell, the first job I had was at a 48-track analog room assisting cats like Joe Barresi.

I ran a shop with a room and iso booths that could accommodate a five or six member band tracking live off the floor, the Trident desk, JH-24 2" 24-track, Studer A80 2-track, and great mics and outboard that all worked. Plus, I had the requiste stash of spare drum heads & strings, drum keys, adapters, lounge with cable TV and interknot etc. It wasn't like the Hit Factory or Quad, but it didn't suck. The consumer oriented equipment isn't really a part of my working life. I'll use it if I encounter it and I have to but I don't buy it to use for my own, or more specifically...my clients productions.

FWIW, even though I closed the shop down a year ago when the lease expired I still own the majority of that stuff and right now everything but the 2" is getting wired into my new mix suite. What did I do in that year? More FOH for names known and once known and also I worked at Mercenary Audio for about six months before realizing that I don't want to be a gear pimp...I'd rather do what I do best...make records and mangle audio.

Originally Posted by Lindell

High End is not just about expensive gear! For me it is more the tone in a post.

To me, high end is a state of mind…a way of doing things. While I hate to use the word professional…we should be in here. Its high end, the crème of the crop…it should be a little bit elitist.

Real pros don’t argue and get into name calling bitch fests and flame wars. We also know that at the heart of it…for the end result…the equipment used doesn’t really matter. It matters to us, the builders of the records because it either makes our life easy or it makes it harder to get the tones we want. But to the end user and probably 60% of our clients, it just doesn’t matter. They’re only moved by the song and the performances.

A real pro wouldn't ask basic questions that can be found in any audio 101 book. Last night I answered a post in here from a guy who just bought two Pultecs and wanted to know how to connect TRS plugs to the barrier strip, or maybe he it called a "screw terminal thingy” (or something like that). I answered the question because I don’t want to be a dick to anyone, but IMNSHO making cables and interfacing a new piece of equipment to your rig is mandatory knowledge. Sure, problems crop up with everything from time to time but we're talking about cutting & stripping a cable.

To me, it was the equivalent of saying “I just got a McLaren F1 or a Ferrari F360!!! How do I start it?” What I really wanted to say to the guy was “If you’re asking that, you shouldn’t own it”.

At the end of the, the cost of a piece of equipment is ill-relevant and highly personal, kinda like talking about how big your dick is. All that matters is how it’s being used and who’s using it. Give an experienced carpenter a minimal set of tools and he’ll build a great house. But, give an amazing set of tools to a novice and he’ll struggle along and nothing will be square, level, or solid.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Lindell

High End is not just about expensive gear! For me it is more the tone in a post. Let me show two examples:

1) "I'm gonna track drums tomorrow and wanna use a SM57 on snare and I have three preamps to choose from, DW Fearn, Neve1073 and a Telefunken V76. Which one would you choose for rock?"

2) "I'm gonna track drums tomorrow and wanna use a SM57 on snare and I have three preamps to choose from, Mackie 1604, Presonus and a Digi001. Which one would you choose for rock?"

Number one would stay in High End and number two would get moved.

Exactly. And the level of gear does *somewhat* correspond to the level of expertise of the poster. (In most cases)

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Exactly. And the level of gear does *somewhat* correspond to the level of expertise of the poster. (In most cases)

Agreed...Of course there are exceptions..as Jay pointed out...A newbie with expensive gear (2 Pultecs) asking how to wire them up should possibly choose another forum.

Always a tough call.

But just like being a 'professional'...it is primarily a state of mind and the way you carry yourself amongst your peers.

P&R,

[haikusoftruth]

Bump for reality.

Yesterday is now today and its so much worse...

Success really is as detrimental as beneficial...

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by haikusoftruth

Bump for reality.

Yesterday is now today and its so much worse...

Success really is as detrimental as beneficial...

live and let live. a thread being in the "wrong place" .. is it really a big deal?

look at everything going on around you. read the papers. watch the news.

once you do, come back and tell me that silly things like this matter..because they dont.

posts like "this isnt' high end!!! - I find them to be arrogant.

[Bubbakron]

I used to be in the "whats the big deal" category about this. Now that I really only read "High End" category and do it regularly- I totally understand why it bugs people. Why set up different forums for different reasons- then argue we should not follow our own guidelines. LETS STAY ORGANIZED!!

Still, its no reason to treat some one like dirt!!!

[Lindell]

Originally Posted by Bubbakron

LETS STAY ORGANIZED!!!!!

Absolutely!

Today it's 3,833,193 posts and 104,510 members!

[thebaron]

Maybe it's just semantics. However it seems that we could benefit from a middle forum. Maybe a "On the verge" or "Broke but Slutty" or "Pro Wannabe" (prosumer has taken on too much of a negative connotation so we'll avoid that).

From personal experience, I've evolved in my slutdom...a few years ago I wouldn't consider spending over a grand for anything and was reluctant to drop 250 bucks on a mic. Those days seem long ago and, although I don't intend to ever be a pro, I have a huge passion and want to have a simple set of top end basic tools to get the job done. I still want good value and need to weigh the benefits of purchases but it's also not in my nature to buy 3 different bargain items (thus spending more than one good one) trying to step up my quality. I typically don't care to hear about the best Art product, however, I also can't buy 3 vintage compressors to play with. So, although I'm interested in high end items, the mentality and approach is very different for me. I can't just chalk it up to having a couple of jobs to justify it or pay it off. However, I'd rather spend the extra bucks and know that I have top quality tools rather than wishing I had better ones or blaming my lame mixes on inferior equipment.

I find myself in the computer section a lot because it seems to be where a lot of the "medium" people congregate.

[RoundBadge]

I've been here since '03 and it's just really bad now.
I love sharing info/insight/experiences w/ gear, helping newbies and responding to PM's about stuff..
but endless "whats the best pre for metal/hiphop,etc,etc..best 47 clone for under 2k,best 1073 clone,best mixer for under 5 g's",etc,etc.
and all the amateur hour trolling,fishing,fighting,bickering,insults.personal attacks etc.etc
guess its inevitable w/ these forums
as much as I adore GS in general and main stomping ground the "High End" forum,I log on less and less.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by thebaron

Maybe it's just semantics. However it seems that we could benefit from a middle forum. Maybe a "On the verge" or "Broke but Slutty" or "Pro Wannabe" (prosumer has taken on too much of a negative connotation so we'll avoid that).

I always thought that was the "So much gear so little time" forum

[vincentvangogo]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I always thought that was the "So much gear so little time" forum

Have to admit I'm not sure of the distinction between So Much Gear... and High End.

[thebaron]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I always thought that was the "So much gear so little time" forum

That's usually what I use for my mid level questions. However, some people might confuse it as the thread to post questions about gear in general (versus other mixing related questions). Maybe that's why it has over 2x the posts of other forums.

It's described as general questions...basically about anything music related which is vague.
I'm happy following rules and "staying in my place" but my place feels like a gray area.

Regardless, I enjoy the site, appreciate all the help, have learned a ton and will try not to annoy the pros.

[jjblair]

I love how "help me spend $7,500 building my studio" is considered high end.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by jjblair

I love how "help me spend $7,500 building my studio" is considered high end.

well, to some it is, JJ... and thats the sort of thing(and I don't know if you meant it that way) but I find(and I know others do).. this sort of looking down on others who have lesser amounts of money to spend really, really condescending, off=putting, and arrogant.

as someone who recently went from having all (in a manner of speaking) to nothing(in a manner of speaking), I have an interesting perspective on this.

your wealth and riches can be taken away in an instant..and if you are ever in that position, I dont think you will enjoy reading comments like

"is XXX money *really* high end"?

it is really nothing more than a audio engineer caste system. the haves vs the have nots... it is divisive...and counter-productive...

Elitism.

and really...who determines what is high end or isnt? are you the arbiter? is fletcher, henchman, theblue1?

Id personally like to see any designator that relates to "money" stripped away...because it is irrelevant.

a categorization based around experience(and more money aint always more experience.. plenty of trust fundies, born into money types) is more helpful.

terms like "high end" --- they just divide and encourage looking down at others.

[rollmottle]

Originally Posted by Lindell

High End is not just about expensive gear! For me it is more the tone in a post. Let me show two examples:

1) "I'm gonna track drums tomorrow and wanna use a SM57 on snare and I have three preamps to choose from, DW Fearn, Neve1073 and a Telefunken V76. Which one would you choose for rock?"

2) "I'm gonna track drums tomorrow and wanna use a SM57 on snare and I have three preamps to choose from, Mackie 1604, Presonus and a Digi001. Which one would you choose for rock?"

Number one would stay in High End and number two would get moved. Do you get my point Jim?

This doesn't seem like the type of thread somebody using High End gear should even start. The "tone in the post" is equally uninteresting.

[Teddy Ray]

what I dont get it..

how are terms like "high end" and "low end" division beneficial? does it really matter? I mean...weve seen time and time again how amazing recordings have been made with gear that is typically pissed on by the "high end" snobs. (and how terrible sounding albums have been made with equipment that is lauded by "high end" snobs) of course weve seen plenty of instances of the opposite ...

my point is... diving the forum based on price point, some arbitrary wealth/status symbol is not helpful... I dont know how to say it really but..over the years the things(music clips) that have impressed me here...they have come from both the "high end" and "low end" forums...

a more helpful categorization would be to organize headers based on type of music recorded(like with the rap.hip hop forum), or organizing based on MERIT (professional credentials, number of years in the business, etc(pro vs novice, etc)..because we all know that there are a LOT of new guys running around with expensive stuff....because of that, it pollutes the integrity of the forum..


"high end" is vague. meaningless(an air of exclusivity) ..and, as ive learned, the term has no worth as far as me seeking out helpful advice. great advice has come from all over the board... you get guys (because of the "high end" designator" ) that buy stuff and think theyve "made it" because they have the tallywhacker 8000 and so they talk down to some guy that may not have the dough to buy the tallywhacker 8000 but has a LOT more experience....


a big old convoluted mess.

Caste Systems are never a good idea.