I worked for 2 weeks on a film, and got no credit.

[ianvargo]

I was appointed to do the music for this stop motion animated film called "deadline". i spent 2 weeks writing, playing, editing, and mixing all the music. I find out yesterday that the video got uploaded to youtube, with my music removed, and my name not in the credits. More than that, the video has gotten 1,500,000 hits in the 3 weeks it's been up WTF? I also assisted in the sound design and got no credit. Damn directors.

Anyway I uploaded a version of the thing with my jam playing, if you guys could listen to it and critique it, it'd make me feel better. Thanks. -Ian

YouTube - DEADLINE post-it stop motion (Original Music by Ian Vargo)

[jammate]

Nice work. I feel your pain. I worked on a project that went on to go Gold and I mixed 5 out of the 10 songs on the CD and the the other guy got the credit....Oh well welcome to the gun for hire club.

[Animus]

Contracts people.

[jammate]

Ianvargo,

I did watch your short and was honest about it being good. I am not sure what Animus is congratulating us about but I understand trying to build a reputation and not getting credit and it can be devastating. Try to look on the bright side (providing you got paid.) Every project you do is a learning experience and in the end its all about your work. If you are proud of it and you can share it with your peers then it is good. Success is between your ears not what is in the credits.

[Batchainpuller78]

He did not say CONGRATS people more along the line of CONTRACTS people?

[Greg Curtis]

Originally Posted by ianvargo

i spent 2 weeks writing, playing, editing, and mixing all the music. I find out yesterday that the video got uploaded to youtube, with my music removed, and my name not in the credits.

I don't see what the problem is. How should they list you if your work is not in the film?

Am I missing something, here?

[narcoman]

exactly. If you're not on it - you're not on it.

Heck man...... I worked on Memphis Belle, Snatch, Lord of the Rings (first one), 24.... list goes on. Uncredited..... I've probably only got half the credits on CDs I've done..... Getting credits on the close of the film or in the CD book can be a bit of a lottery, although I've just been absolutely hounded for my credits on a new Jim Sturgess movie - yet I did very very little.... guess they're a nice team !!

I've stopped worrying about it - real credits are easy to check - word of mouth gives it often!!!

[Ciaccona]

from the video information:

"Directed by Bang-yao Liu
Music by Röyksopp (http://royksopp.com)
Sound design by Ian Vargo, Shaun Burdick
Actor: Chun-yao Huang"


Ashton Kutcher seems to have twitted this, that's why so many people saw it!

I like your work with it but the other music seems to have been chosen because the sounds probably speak better to the kids.

[narcoman]

AND it's Royksopp..... bigger act !!

in my opinion - whilst the Royksopp track is a better track on it;s own - I have to say that using an original track is MUCH cooler on a little movie like this.

[Led]

So the animator decided to go with some other music, credited you for your work that did appear in it, and you put your own music version on youtube, of their film..which you don't own the copyright to...to show everyone how much better yours was..
hmmmmm...
I guess it's not like they know anybody else in that sort of business, right? I mean, that sort of thing couldn't possibly harm your chance of gettin any future work, hey..?

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Led

So the animator decided to go with some other music, credited you for your work that did appear in it, and you put your own music version on youtube, of their film..which you don't own the copyright to...to show everyone how much better yours was..
hmmmmm...
I guess it's not like they know anybody else in that sort of business, right? I mean, that sort of thing couldn't possibly harm your chance of gettin any future work, hey..?

indeed. You're supposed to act as if you're under NDA.... unless you got permission - bad form putting it up on YT.....

[ianvargo]

He must've just changed the information because I complained to him that I wasn't in the credits. Truthfully, the song he used is more polished, I won't say it's better thank you very much. Also, I did work my ass off on this thing, why should I not be included in at least the "Thank You" portion of the credits. I met with the director, talked about how to make this film as good as it can be, and put as much work into this as anyone, save him and a few of his visual assistants, so why shouldn't I be credited? Just because he chose to use another song, doesn't mean I didn't work on it. Logic People. Professionalism.

I still love my jam. I will use it in the future.

He absolutely did not give me any credit unless he just changed it.

[Makinithappen]

Yep... I did all the songs for this movie with Luke Perry and one of the High School Musical kids a couple years back and rushed out to buy it at Wal Mart the day it came out.

I must've made my g/f sit there and read the credits with me 5 times before realizing that they had credited the caterers, the florists, the cab companies, the hotels but not the guy that RECORDED ALL THE DAMN SONGS.... They didn't even thank the studio.

Oh well... Live and learn..

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by ianvargo

He must've just changed the information because I complained to him that I wasn't in the credits. Truthfully, the song he used is more polished, I won't say it's better thank you very much. Also, I did work my ass off on this thing, why should I not be included in at least the "Thank You" portion of the credits. I met with the director, talked about how to make this film as good as it can be, and put as much work into this as anyone, save him and a few of his visual assistants, so why shouldn't I be credited? Just because he chose to use another song, doesn't mean I didn't work on it. Logic People. Professionalism.

I still love my jam. I will use it in the future.

He absolutely did not give me any credit unless he just changed it.

well as the other band is Royksopp and they've sold a fair few million albums - it's obvious why he chose it. Did he pay for the license? Cuz I can't imagine it going for anything less than £10k.

Professionalism? Re-read my earlier post - not getting credited is more common than GETTING credited.

[Duardo]

Just because he chose to use another song, doesn't mean I didn't work on it. Logic People. Professionalism.

Even though you did work on it, if your work isn't part of the final product, he's not obligated to give you a credit. Nice that he ultimately did, though...

[jammate]

"He did not say CONGRATS people more along the line of CONTRACTS people?"

Sorry. I misread the post.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Duardo

Even though you did work on it, if your work isn't part of the final product, he's not obligated to give you a credit. Nice that he ultimately did, though...

My orchestrator did all the research for traditional instruments for the film "Troy". At the last minute none of Yareds, and hence my buddy Jonny's, work was used. No credit for Jonny. Despite doing a years worth of work.

[musikwerks]

Is it too much of a stretch to say the only "credit" worth worrying about is the credit to your bank account at the end of the job?

[londontown]

...to the film industry.

rule no. 1 = People often suck. Generally, in fact. Not that they always mean to.

rule no.2 = People sometimes lie or mislead or don't communicate well

rule no.3 = if you approach it without that in mind, you're in for a big surprise!

Even with a contract they could still ditch your music. Rely on nobody.

It's the same in any other industry, except it's particularly so in the film music world, and because it's our music, when people are well...human...it hurts so much more as it's like someone punching your child in the face. Because your music is like your children. It's hard not to take it deeply personally. Some great composers with A list credits to their name dropped off the map because of it.

Film music isn't really that much more competitive than a lot of other jobs, it's just that many don't have the stomach for it and quit.

[Led]

A few years back I recorded my first big orchestral score for a feature film, around 40 minutes of music with a 70 piece orchestra. Director was blown away, I was over the moon. The string players actually did that thing at the end where they tap their bows on their instruments as a polite applause. The film went to a festival in New York. American company picked it up, proceeded to remix the whole film. Most of my cues were stripped back to just basses and Celli drones. The distributor felt it was "too emotional and led the audience too much" haaaa. Awesome seeing 4 months of my life go up in smoke. I was near suicidal at the time, so I feel and know the pain. I still can't really be f&^*%d with films anymore.

[londontown]

The other thing possibly to remember is that it almost certainly isn't within in your right to post his film on to youtube with your music on it?? I'm not sure of that, but I would imagine his film is still his property. You could possibly argue fair use or creative commons or whatnot, I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be kind of surprised.

And it's not probably not all that wise to whine to someone who has just got a hell of a lot of exposure and might get more off the back of it, or perhaps get another film to make.

Case in point, Gil Kenan made a couple of animated shorts, and took the composer he had on those shorts with him onto Monster House, Douglas Pipes. What if this guy gets asked to make a feature? If he can't get royksopp then, will he come back to the guy who worked solidly and produced a good score but got pipped at the post and then kicked up a fit online? I doubt it, but I don't know the exact situation of course, but assuming normal filmmaking circumstances what you did posting it was a baaaaaad idea. Not meaning to demean your music (which is good, by the way) and the work you put in, but you've got to pick your battles in this game, and you're definitely fighting on the losing side irrespective of how good your cause is.

Just my two cents and I could easily be wrong.

Originally Posted by ianvargo

He must've just changed the information because I complained to him that I wasn't in the credits. Truthfully, the song he used is more polished, I won't say it's better thank you very much. Also, I did work my ass off on this thing, why should I not be included in at least the "Thank You" portion of the credits. I met with the director, talked about how to make this film as good as it can be, and put as much work into this as anyone, save him and a few of his visual assistants, so why shouldn't I be credited? Just because he chose to use another song, doesn't mean I didn't work on it. Logic People. Professionalism.

I still love my jam. I will use it in the future.

He absolutely did not give me any credit unless he just changed it.

[Led]

I just had a listen to them both. Were you given the Royskopp piece as a temp track? They sound quite similar.

[reid]

I've just watched and am wondering if you've over stepped the line and really pissed the director off with your own upload - because the version of the film I'm watching has a credit for sound design, but it isn't for Ian Vargo. Looks like they decided to go the whole hog and get rid of your music and audio.

Deadline Post-It Note

[ianvargo]

Originally Posted by reid

I've just watched and am wondering if you've over stepped the line and really pissed the director off with your own upload - because the version of the film I'm watching has a credit for sound design, but it isn't for Ian Vargo. Looks like they decided to go the whole hog and get rid of your music and audio.

Deadline Post-It Note

That's the thing, I never got credit for anything, even the sound design. This whole thing was produced at Savannah College of Art and Design, it was a student work created with the school's equipment. I'm absolutely not worried about uploading my video with my music, I told the director I was going to do so and he had no problem with it as far as I can tell. Listening to your guy's stories really opens my eyes.

Did I use the temp track as a basis for mine. Absolutely. It's the exact same tempo (114 bpm) I believe). And one of the reasons the director didn't like mine as much was that, "It's not fast enough". Urg.

You know what I don't like Ashton Kutcher anyway and he posted this thing on his twitter which is was made it so huge, so whatever.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by ianvargo

That's the thing, I never got credit for anything, even the sound design. This whole thing was produced at Savannah College of Art and Design, it was a student work created with the school's equipment. I'm absolutely not worried about uploading my video with my music, I told the director I was going to do so and he had no problem with it as far as I can tell. Listening to your guy's stories really opens my eyes.

Did I use the temp track as a basis for mine. Absolutely. It's the exact same tempo (114 bpm) I believe). And one of the reasons the director didn't like mine as much was that, "It's not fast enough". Urg.

You know what I don't like Ashton Kutcher anyway and he posted this thing on his twitter which is was made it so huge, so whatever.

i don't think anyone has a problem with you uploading... just you have to be careful. Don't ever do that on a commercial project - you'll never work again !!

Temp track? Well that explains a lot. They wanted Royksopp - you delivered a credible pastiche... but the original is ALWAYS going to rock their world more.....

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Temp track? Well that explains a lot. They wanted Royksopp - you delivered a credible pastiche... but the original is ALWAYS going to rock their world more.....

So true, I had to replace some music parts before that the director had temped with unlicensed scores and it was a major pain to get them close enough to the originals to satisfy him since he already had his mind married to the way he was used to hearing it...

[Batchainpuller78]

Well Ian to bad, for what it's worth I like the video with your music better. Not as cold as the other version.

Anyhow credits, my brother sold a script a few years back to some cats in hollywood, they paid him well for it but as the story progressed there was not much left of the script at the end of it before they started shooting.
They still wanted to credit him for it, he politely declined as he felt he did not have any relation to the finalized version of the script.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by olivia_nb

So true, I had to replace some music parts before that the director had temped with unlicensed scores and it was a major pain to get them close enough to the originals to satisfy him since he already had his mind married to the way he was used to hearing it...

that's what happened with Star Wars !! why d'ya think it's close to the Dambusters and Holst !!

[ianvargo]

I would certainly never do that on a commercial project. Wasn't it 2001 that Kubrick was set on the temp track and he hired someone and they worked their asses off only to have it cut? I think that's what bothers me, he came to me with this temp track, asked me to do a variation on it, and I did. He was set in his ways from the start. Bah, at least i have a nice jam to use in the future. It's one of my best pieces, I think.Thank you guys for supporting me!

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by ianvargo

I would certainly never do that on a commercial project. Wasn't it 2001 that Kubrick was set on the temp track and he hired someone and they worked their asses off only to have it cut? I think that's what bothers me, he came to me with this temp track, asked me to do a variation on it, and I did. He was set in his ways from the start. Bah, at least i have a nice jam to use in the future. It's one of my best pieces, I think.Thank you guys for supporting me!

it's always the way.... i'd say a good tenth of our work is cut when the overriding marketeer comes up with a license they want to use..... But at least we still get paid !!