Saxophones are NOT brass instruments!

[Greg Curtis]

I'm sick of seeing people mentioning sax as a member of the brass instrument family!

IT IS NOT!

It is a woodwind.

Thank you for your time.

[noiseflaw]

It is a reed instrument - not that much wood there though...

When one refers to the 'Brass' section in a swing Big Band are the Saxaphones present or not?...

Yes it's a rhetorical question.

[ark]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

It is a reed instrument - not that much wood there though...

Single reed, more pedantically, as opposed to the double reeds (oboe, English horn, bassoon, contrabassoon).

Wood or not, a saxophone's sound blends better with a clarinet than it does with a trumpet.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by Greg Curtis

I'm sick of seeing people mentioning sax as a member of the brass instrument family!

IT IS NOT!

It is a woodwind.

Thank you for your time.

So, what you're saying is, my brass snare drum isn't either?!

oh boy do I have egg on my face now.

[Ken Walker]

A Saxophone is both. It is a reeded instrument made of brass, whether you like it or not.

[cooker]

A flute is made of silver or gold but its clearly a woodwind instrument. Its not the material, its about the sound of the instrument.

[Dale]

brass has a mouthpiece where the lips provide the vibration. woodwinds use a wooden reed to produce the vibration and I leave how flute fits into this for others.

[waveterm]

I have a sax sound in my PPG 2.2 does this make it woodwind ? It is made of metall, not wood !?



WT

[Ken Walker]

Originally Posted by cooker

A flute is made of silver or gold but its clearly a woodwind instrument. Its not the material, its about the sound of the instrument.

The material is part of the sound of the instrument. Flutes were made of wood back in the day. The basic design was retained; thus, it's still called a flute.

Adolphe Sax set out to create a new instrument. Technically a woodwind, it was designed to be louder than any woodwind yet have the versitility of brass. It was to bridge the gap, so to speak, of brass and woodwinds. This is why some people, including some very learned people in music, call it a brass and woodwind instrument. If someone called it strictly a brass instrument, I would disagree, but if someone wants to call it both, they're not really wrong.

[Smithcok]

What's the difference between a saxophone and a chainsaw???















Exhaust!

[Greg Curtis]

Classifying instruments solely by the material from which they are constructed is not correct.

"Brass" instrument's sound is created by the vibrations created by the player's lips, via their embouchure, which is amplified by the instrument.

"Woodwind" instrument's sound is created via the vibrations of blown air across a reed (clarinets, saxes, double-reeds), or by air being blown across the edge of a hole (flute).

All of the instruments being discussed have already been classified as WIND INSTRUMENTS. Subsets of Wind Instruments are: Woodwinds (divided into subsets as: Single-reed (e.g. saxophones), double-reeds (e.g. oboe, bassoon), and flute), and Brass (e.g. trumpet, trombone, horn, tuba).

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

"When one refers to the 'Brass' section in a swing Big Band are the Saxaphones present or not?..."

No. If a knowledgeable person were to hear that they would assume that you meant ONLY the trumpets and trombones, excluding the sax section. Be careful, as this would cause confusion, and immediately cast you as ignorant to the performers, composers, copyists, and producers on a session.

Originally Posted by ark

"Single reed, more pedantically, as opposed to the double reeds (oboe, English horn, bassoon, contrabassoon).

Wood or not, a saxophone's sound blends better with a clarinet than it does with a trumpet. "

Originally Posted by dale

Brass has a mouthpiece where the lips provide the vibration. woodwinds use a wooden reed to produce the vibration and I leave how flute fits into this for others.

YES! We have our winners!

Originally Posted by kpaw

A Saxophone is both. It is a reeded instrument made of brass, whether you like it or not.

I do like it! But, material alone does not determine instrument family (see above). Sorry, you are wrong. A reed creates the necessary vibrations in a saxophone, not the player's embouchure, therefore, it is a woodwind.

Originally Posted by waveterm

I have a sax sound in my PPG 2.2 does this make it woodwind ? It is made of metall, not wood !?

Yes, it does. Yes, most saxes are made of metal.

It was to bridge the gap, so to speak, of brass and woodwinds. This is why some people, including some very learned people in music, call it a brass and woodwind instrument. If someone called it strictly a brass instrument, I would disagree, but if someone wants to call it both, they're not really wrong.

Yes, old Adolph created the saxophone family around 1846.

Who are these learned people? They are wrong.

[Ken Walker]

Originally Posted by Greg Curtis

Classifying instruments solely by the material from which they are constructed is not correct.

This is true.

No. If a knowledgeable person were to hear that they would assume that you meant ONLY the trumpets and trombones, excluding the sax section. Be careful, as this would cause confusion, and immediately cast you as ignorant to the performers, composers, copyists, and producers on a session.

Again, true.

I do like it! But, material alone does not determine instrument family (see above). Sorry, you are wrong. A reed creates the necessary vibrations in a saxophone, not the player's embouchure, therefore, it is a woodwind.

I personally classify it as a woodwind. Some others don't, and I understand why. In many ways it is a hybrid instrument.

As for the learned person comment, I was at a seminar given years ago by the late, great conductor Eugene Ormundy. He called it both a woodwind and a brass instrument, though he made it clear that it sat with the woodwinds for orchestral purposes.

[nomoreflakes]

pedant

[rumleymusic]

As long as you don't start calling Trumpets, trombones, and saxes the "horn" section. For Pete's sake:

Horn = French Horn

I say this as a long time trumpet player. I do NOT play a "horn".

And yes, Saxophone is a wind instrument, not a brass instrument (if you can call it an instrument )

[kafka]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

As long as you don't start calling Trumpets, trombones, and saxes the "horn" section. For Pete's sake:

Horn = French Horn

I say this as a long time trumpet player. I do NOT play a "horn".

And yes, Saxophone is a wind instrument, not a brass instrument (if you can call it an instrument )

OK, guys, then tell me. If I want to address a bunch of guys standing in formation blowing into shiny yellow instruments, what should I call them?

[matt2525]

yeah I can just see me telling the next soul or ska band in the studio that it's time for the "woodwind and brass" section to lay down their tracks....

Here's the lineup for the fairly famous Memphis Horns (not that I've met them)

Wayne Jackson - trumpet
Andrew Love - tenor saxophone
Lewis Collins - saxophone, flute, trombone
Jack Hale - trombone, trumpet, french horn
Ed Logan - tenor saxophone
James Mitchell - baritone saxophone

Only one french horn! Maybe they should be renamed "The Memphis Woodwind and Brass Ensemble" ? tutt Whatever the origins of the terminology are, for quite some time now "horns" has been a common word used to describe the assortment of blown instruments used in (for example) soul and ska music.

[sahiaman]

I just had this discussion yesterday with someone. Weird.

We concluded that anyone standing in formation blowing on something are either horn players or auditioning for the same film.

Also, a piano is a percussion instrument, and you don't hear them being called percussionists!

[Cosmic Closet]

This is a wonderfully pedantic discussion, but also quite educational

I can only begin to imagine the many levels of contempt one can arouse in a veteran horn...eh....BLOWING section at a studio session by using the wrong terms.....including calling the trombonists 'bones.'

[nick-the-sax]

ok. i'm gonna settle this.


The sax, while being made of brass, falls into the woodwind section of a band. in a similar fashion, despite flutes being made almost entirely out of metal (apart from the key pads), they are also woodwind.

this is not because of the material it is made of (anymore, at least), but the way in which they produce a sound. where brass instruments (trumpets, trombones, etc) require the player to perform a sort of *raspberry* sound with their lips to vibrate the air, woodwind instruments require a part of the instrument to be vibrated - ie, the reed. the saxophone is a hybrid of a clarinet and a flute and made of metal - the fingering on a sax is very similar to that of the flute and the embouchure technique is like that of clarinet.

but flutes do not use reeds, so how do they classify as woodwind and not brass?! brass instruments also fall into the "Valve" category, and since a flute operates in a similar manner to a clarinet, sax or oboe, it produces a sound akin to these instruments. this is debatable, however flutes and saxes are closer in sound than flutes and trumpets. on top of this, flutes were originally made of wood.

phew.. hope this helps!

[nick-the-sax]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

As long as you don't start calling Trumpets, trombones, and saxes the "horn" section. For Pete's sake:

Horn = French Horn

I say this as a long time trumpet player. I do NOT play a "horn".

And yes, Saxophone is a wind instrument, not a brass instrument (if you can call it an instrument )

in jazz-speak, anything you blow is classified as a horn...

"hey man! bring your horn down"

[Hxd Ped]

I do not play guitar, I play bass guitar. They are different instruments, Mom. (Sorry, but after 23 years my mom still tells people I play guitar.)

When my daughter plays with the orchestra, she plays a violin. When she plays country music, she plays a fiddle.

My ex-wife plays the oboe, so no one cares what her instrument is called.