Alicia Keys always flat?

[luctellier]

I heard 'No One' from Alicia Keys a while ago and thought she was flat during many parts of the song. I just saw her new videoclip with Jack White and also thought she was really flat at some point. I checked many live performance on YouTube and she was also often flat. Is it me or she really has intonation problems? Does anyone on this board has worked with her in studio? I know Russell Elevado did. I'm wondering how she was in studio?

[PELicanWord]

one of her main engineers (exactly who slips my mind at the moment) came for a lecture at my school and said that in a session with Alicia, one of the engineers was about to Auto Tune her voice and she said something along the lines of...

tutt "...If I'm pitchy, i'm pitchy for a reason".

I realize this is a very "He said/She said" response, but it sounds legit. She's one of the better singers of the decade IMO. Besides, I think performance and delivery out-do perfect pitch every time

[PhilC]

I can't listen to anything she does because it's so out of tune. I don't expect it to be perfect or autotuned to death, but everything I've heard of hers is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

If she's one of the best singers of this decade then this decade in singers has SUCKED!

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by PhilC

I can't listen to anything she does because it's so out of tune. I don't expect it to be perfect or autotuned to death, but everything I've heard of hers is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

If she's one of the best singers of this decade then this decade in singers has SUCKED!

Aretha was pitchy.... still rocked....

[mdjice]

Yes she is VERY out of tune.... When I heard no one I thought it was like a PRE released bootleg kind of like a STudio test that got out of the studio somehow without tuning. This song is HORRIBLE WAY out of tune...YET..she sold millions...Scary...

[luctellier]

I know she's an amazing singer.. I also prefer a real good track with emotion that is not perfect pitch.. but in the song 'No One' and the new one with Jack White, she crossed the threshold of being 'musically off-key' which I just can't stand.. I was just wondering if it was an artistic decision or simply her that didn't want to be edited at all. Thanks for you info!

[PhilC]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Aretha was pitchy.... still rocked....

Yep. Your point is? Surely you're not comparing a true legend like Aretha to Keys. tutt

[luctellier]

Also, as anyone noticed a big similarity between 'No One' and 'Where's the love' from Black Eyed Peas?

[Barry Lird]

YES! She's is always absurdly out of tune, and honestly, not a great singer, nor much of a songwriter. She's not even in the same league as Aretha. She's all hype.

[Jaques Beraques]

I was at a show of her amonth ago.She didn´t have the best intonation.
But what suprised me the most,was that one of her background singers was so much better than she can ever be and was even "allowed" to show it during a solo passage.Brilliant singer,I don´t know her name but maybe someone over here does.

[digiman]

Alicia Keys, like Mary J. Blige are two artists who are marginal/adequate vocalists who are able to just somehow "make it work". Mary's pitchiness is a big part of who she is as an artist. She has fashioned herself as the girl next door and towards that end, she truly IS the girl next door, including her voice. That's what makes it work for her. Alicia on the other hand has been marketed as this virtuoso performer/musician so expectations are a little higher for her because of her classical training. From her pitchiness to vocal straining to try to sing beyond her very narrow natural vocal range, you can tell her vocal skills are still lagging behind her skills as a pianist/performer. She's making it work as evidenced by her record sales, but she could never be considered in the same breath as Aretha.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by luctellier

I heard 'No One' from Alicia Keys a while ago and thought she was flat during many parts of the song.

Thank you!

(and no, it's not an Aretha thing)

-R

[RockManDan]

thank God someone else finally noticed this. i was working at a restaurant last year and this song kept coming on the stereo and it drove me nuts. i was like 'anybody else think this song is horribly out of tune?' and my coworkers just looked at me like i was crazy.

im glad im not crazy.

[Darc]

Yes its correct, she isn´t the superdupa intonation master but c´mon guys
lets be fair, she is a good artist/performer and she delivered some fresh tunes.
I liked her debut better than the latest releases. Let us be honest
at this point - most of us would be glad to produce a tune for her

[BOWIE]

Being a little pitchy can be really soulful when you have the right singer and the right song. However, Alicia is not the right singer...

[Solar]

Originally Posted by luctellier

Also, as anyone noticed a big similarity between 'No One' and 'Where's the love' from Black Eyed Peas?

Hey Luc!

Wassup buddy! Yes indeed "No one versus Where's the love from BEP", that similarity crossed my mind the first time i heard Alicia's released song... but the truth today's Pop/Urban etc.. music is that all the songs just sounds like.... it's sad but true, Urban music lately overall is sounding just the same..

And yes Alicia, she is a great singer and she is often "Off key" but its true that because she is a great singer and performer and got a great vocals skills, the everyday consumer doesn't even make the difference because the song is well produced, mixed and most with a great production and great vocals mixing, her songs stands out no matter what we can say... and let's not forget, she is herself a very very talented musician.... and i believe her and her team knew what they were doing and why they decided to release the song like that!!! And she is not the only artist out there who on her record you hear her go off and even worst on live performances!!!!

I have to admit, that i personally think that her best album so far still remains her FIRST album....performance, production, etc... is simply a great album and fresh!!!

Voila.... just my 2 cents!!

Cheers!

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by Darc

Let us be honest at this point - most of us would be glad to produce a tune for her

Indeed and I would TUNE her vocals for free...

[Pfraser]

I think it suits her songs. I can't see them being perfect pitch britney tracks. She has this kind of mix of ghetto, soul, reggae, and hip hop in her vocal stye.... I don't see were perfect or good intonation fits in there. You guys do know that some instruments have different temperaments... the voice being the most common one.

*edit*

and f off, I haven't slept yet and I'm not going to correct my spelling and grammar errors.

[PhilC]

Originally Posted by Pfraser

I think it suits her songs. I can't see them being perfect pitch britney tracks. She has this kind of mix of ghetto, soul, reggae, and hip hop in her vocal stye.... I don't see were perfect or good intonation fits in there. You guys do know that some instruments have different temperaments... the voice being the most common one.

*edit*

and f off, I haven't slept yet and I'm not going to correct my spelling and grammar errors.

I think you're giving her talent a bit too much credit to argue she's singing in Pythagorean temperament while the track is in equal temperament or something similar. There's a systematic difference in tuning and then there's just having a bad tonal center and being out of tune. Doesn't seem to matter in sales, though.

[robb01]

Originally Posted by luctellier

Indeed and I would TUNE her vocals for free...

You and I both

[qubi]

I've noticed too and it really bugs me. It seems like it's an intentional thing, like she's trying to be xtra non-auto tuned or something, but to me, it sounds like she's straining hard, and flat. especially in "no one".. And after the new 007 song, It seems like she;s turning into her signature sound .. I don't think being "off key" translates to soulful. FWIW I think her first album "songs in a-minor" was a lot more soulful than her new stuff, and she didn't push those bum notes in our face all the time..

I remember in some awards show, (AMA 07?) Stevie Wonder introduced her on stage, and did it by singing a couple bars from the chorus of "no one". After him, She sounded DEAD FLAT within seconds of opening her mouth!

Kinda wish he just finished the song instead

[Keire]

I think her performance in that song is one of the only interesting things I hear in the radio...It adds to the emotional impact of the song.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Her chest is perfectly fine. You must be thinking of someone else?

I was about to say, i have no issues with Alicia Keys looks, voice, playing etc, she is tops and i enjoy her CDs. "I Keep on Falling" with you !!!

[Pfraser]

The problem is that people are so used to hearing pitch corrected vocals that when they hear "uncorrected" vocals they think it's way out of tune as if corrected vocals are the cold water you put your hands in and the "uncorrected" vocals are the hot water which seems hotter than it is because of the difference....... did that make any sense? wow I need to sleep.

what's even worse, is that young girls are inspired by these female vocalists who are auto tuned so you have girls singing as if they are being autotuned without an autotuner even on. Go put any bootleg of an old multitrack into melodyne and see how "out of tune" people were back then.

[D K]

Originally Posted by Pfraser

The problem is that people are so used to hearing pitch corrected vocals that when they hear "uncorrected" vocals they think it's way out of tune as if corrected vocals are the cold water you put your hands in and the "uncorrected" vocals are the hot water which seems hotter than it is because of the difference....... did that make any sense? wow I need to sleep.

what's even worse, is that young girls are inspired by these female vocalists who are auto tuned so you have girls singing as if they are being autotuned without an autotuner even on. Go put any bootleg of an old multitrack into melodyne and see how "out of tune" people were back then.

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by Pfraser

The problem is that people are so used to hearing pitch corrected vocals that when they hear "uncorrected" vocals they think it's way out of tune as if corrected vocals are the cold water you put your hands in and the "uncorrected" vocals are the hot water which seems hotter than it is because of the difference....... did that make any sense? wow I need to sleep.

I understand your point but there's a big difference between 'uncorrected' and one tone flat vocals... now go to bed! are you from Montreal by any chance?

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by digiman

Alicia Keys, like Mary J. Blige are two artists who are marginal/adequate vocalists who are able to just somehow "make it work". Mary's pitchiness is a big part of who she is as an artist. She has fashioned herself as the girl next door and towards that end, she truly IS the girl next door, including her voice. That's what makes it work for her. Alicia on the other hand has been marketed as this virtuoso performer/musician so expectations are a little higher for her because of her classical training. From her pitchiness to vocal straining to try to sing beyond her very narrow natural vocal range, you can tell her vocal skills are still lagging behind her skills as a pianist/performer. She's making it work as evidenced by her record sales, but she could never be considered in the same breath as Aretha.

Wow, this is the bad pitch forum! Mary J ends almost every phrase sharp and even starts them that way many times. That style is like nails on a chalkboard to me. I would much rather hear a bit of flatness, as opposed to what seems to be a newer R&B trend in pushing yourself sharp all the time! I have worked with Alicia live, she was ok, not great. None of these singers can be compared to Aretha, very few in history could be. Etta James is one of the few that come to mind, she was not as popular, but similarly pioneering in her talent and unique style. Luc, it is good to hear someone question a singers pitch issues. I will have to give a nod of respect to Alicia for not letting someone auto-tune her to death!

[adoucette]

theres difference between being pitchy and sounding good though, her pitchy doesnt sound good.. im glad someone noticed this besides me, when I listened to that song I was thinking WTF?

I am all for the naturalness of it, but the flatness combined with the out-of-range way shes singing that song drives me bananas

Dont get me wrong, I think Alicia is a great artist and very talented, I just didnt understand why this was like this, drop the key of the song a semi-tone if you have too..

[Pfraser]

Originally Posted by luctellier

I understand your point but there's a big difference between 'uncorrected' and one tone flat vocals... now go to bed! are you from Montreal by any chance?

A tone? Okay I didn't notice that, if she's actually a tone as in semi tone as in half note off, then fine, that's pretty bad. But if we are talking about a microtone off here and there then who cares. Vocal melodies can usually get away with dissonant notes and still have it sound good anyways. Just as with any instrument, you pick which notes you exaggerate your expression and when you exaggerate your expression, it's usually going to be out of tune whethere it's a wild string bend on a guitar, a tremelo swell on a cello, or a growling vocal passage.

I really need to go to bed, alnighters are killling me.

8edit*

and no, not from montreal, why do you ask?

[wesarvin]

Alicia Keys blows considering the hype that surrounds her. Her artistic pitchiness isn't very artistic to me, and even the average Joe the Tonedeaf can tell she's horribly off.

Aretha and Etta are great examples of how being off can be good, but also show when to be on.

What about Billie Holiday? She's all over the map, both in pitch and time, but she always snaps right into place like a rubber band.